PG: KNICKS vs Cavs - Get Well, Jalen!

[Hes_On_Fire]

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bro. they don't wanna hear this. they're averaging 40-44mpg in their minds, which is good enough to rave about.

to be fair...two things can be accurate. I can't just look at a number and have it tell the whole story. Over the last month of play Brunson has been avg pretty close to 40 mins per night (38 for the month of Feb). The only game over the last month he played low 30's was the memphis game where he left that game with with 6 or so minutes left with an injury or he would have been on pace again.

That plus all the wear and tear of him running the offense adds up.

There is a bad luck element. But too many times when a guy goes down he just rolls the rotation up and plays guys crazy minutes.

Like someone will look at Josh Hart and say oh he's only playing 31 minutes a night...he's not playing crazy minutes. But over the last month of play he's been avging over 40 minutes a night...its the consecutive games at this level which is more concerning rather than the over full year minutes...

This is so perfectly said that I’m copying this post word for word to use elsewhere. Let me know if you need any royalties.

[louisorr]

why do stars self load manage? because they hate playing? because they hate the fans?
no. they are the ones experiencing their own bodies and they are saying my body needs rest.
players not in that position of privilege have to listen to their coach.....even if he is a madman and a lunatic.

[god shammgod]

Thats probably right, its probably a little of both luck and thibs being treating every game like a playoff game.

More of my frustration comes from his strubborness and lack of feel in games (which worries me in the playoffs). He rotation is his rotatoin. As you can see Duece can play when given the chance but far too often he was playing single digits in minutes when Brunson was play in the 40's.

I get he has been dealt some "bad luck" in terms of injuries. And while last night mentality is also why we can win a game like that. Ultimately he will be judged in the playoffs. Which he seems to be outcoached by the better coaches when everyone has "playoff mentality".

I agree he's not going anywhere. Leon and Thibs are close...the best player on the team and Thibs have a great relationship.

CLE is a good matchup for us. They have too non spacing bigs that aren't as physical as our guys. We eat that matchup up. Its when we are facing a team like the celtics who play one big or other teams that play more spacing lineups where he is way to stubborn with 2 non shooting big lineups.

We are a bottom 3rd team in terms of 3pt defense. He values protecting the rim but at what cost...even last night way too many times defenders are getting sucked in a leaving a shooter like Merrill...it made no sense. Let Mobley go 1 on 1 or let Garland take a tough mid range or floater...not everyone has to collapse. Some teams are just good matchups for us...some arent'.

this is what people always say but i don't know what series he was supposed to win but he didn't. miami went to the finals and beat a better team than us right after they beat us. atl 3 years ago beat the sixers after they beat us. another better team. and we've had top players, hi julius, completely fail in historic fashion in both of those years.

in some ways he's a victim of his regular season success. because he overachieves during the regular season people expect that to hold up during the playoffs when talent usually wins out. that's how i define failure in the playoffs. do you have the clearly more talented team and lose ?

I think a lot of times his teams go limping in the playoffs with injuries. Its got to be more than a coincidence that Bulls always had injury problems heading into the playoffs...minny and Butler were injured when they had that good season with Thibs, and we are dealing with it as well.

I mean in all 3 places...seems like too much of a coincidence no?

I think Bob Myers said it pre-game...thibs is the most prepared regular season coach in the league because he treats the regular season like the playoffs...at least to me that suggests he's inferring he's not a great post season coach and he kinda a maniac to get regular season wins.

I mean we all love it...we all enjoyed last night...it was fun. But we also wont enjoy if Hart goes down in the next could games because he been playing nearly a month of entire games.

i don't really even disagree with what you're saying but like i said, what series was he supposed to win and didn't ?

in chicago the talent level he was winning with after rose got hurt was lowkey terrible. thibs has never had any kind of superteam to win with in the playoffs. he's done about as well as the talent given to him.

[Buttah304]

Why is it that when I woke up I found myself thinking about the last possession in the 3rd where Bogie decided to leave Merrill wide open for 3 and opted to help on the driver.

Bojan is an impressive offensive player - and I feel the best is yet to come for him as our guys get back…and I truly feel he can be an X Factor not in the cliche way I mean tilt a series if he’s scorching hot…but man…it’s that kind of decision in the closing seconds that concerns you in a big moment.

It’s not even a lack of effort - in his mind he wanted to help contest on the drive partly because the backbone of a Thibs style defense is to shut off the paint valve…this is more of a low IQ choice that he made defensively - Merrill had made 5 threes prior to that basket and you get the sense that wasn’t even a thought in the back of Bogies mind

[mpharris36]

this is what people always say but i don't know what series he was supposed to win but he didn't. miami went to the finals and beat a better team than us right after they beat us. atl 3 years ago beat the sixers after they beat us. another better team. and we've had top players, hi julius, completely fail in historic fashion in both of those years.

in some ways he's a victim of his regular season success. because he overachieves during the regular season people expect that to hold up during the playoffs when talent usually wins out. that's how i define failure in the playoffs. do you have the clearly more talented team and lose ?

I think a lot of times his teams go limping in the playoffs with injuries. Its got to be more than a coincidence that Bulls always had injury problems heading into the playoffs...minny and Butler were injured when they had that good season with Thibs, and we are dealing with it as well.

I mean in all 3 places...seems like too much of a coincidence no?

I think Bob Myers said it pre-game...thibs is the most prepared regular season coach in the league because he treats the regular season like the playoffs...at least to me that suggests he's inferring he's not a great post season coach and he kinda a maniac to get regular season wins.

I mean we all love it...we all enjoyed last night...it was fun. But we also wont enjoy if Hart goes down in the next could games because he been playing nearly a month of entire games.

i don't really even disagree with what you're saying but like i said, what series was he supposed to win and didn't ?

in chicago the talent level he was winning with after rose got hurt was lowkey terrible. thibs has never had any kind of superteam to win with in the playoffs. he's done about as well as the talent given to him.

thats all fair. Derrick Rose also played pretty wild minutes and game in his firs 3 years...I get he was young...but some of that blame of the injury and the bulls downfall has to be on him. He avg 80 games and over 37 minutes in his first 3 years in the league. And you have to factor in blowouts potentially too...so he had to be playing a lot of consecutive 40 mins...I guess Rose knee could have blown out regardless but man that is a lot of wear and tear with no rest time.

[Jeff Van Gully]

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bro. they don't wanna hear this. they're averaging 40-44mpg in their minds, which is good enough to rave about.

to be fair...two things can be accurate. I can't just look at a number and have it tell the whole story. Over the last month of play Brunson has been avg pretty close to 40 mins per night (38 for the month of Feb). The only game over the last month he played low 30's was the memphis game where he left that game with with 6 or so minutes left with an injury or he would have been on pace again.

That plus all the wear and tear of him running the offense adds up.

There is a bad luck element. But too many times when a guy goes down he just rolls the rotation up and plays guys crazy minutes.

Like someone will look at Josh Hart and say oh he's only playing 31 minutes a night...he's not playing crazy minutes. But over the last month of play he's been avging over 40 minutes a night...its the consecutive games at this level which is more concerning rather than the over full year minutes...

i'm aware of the trends. and even those from viewing the game logs don't paint the picture being sold at times. as has been discussed ad nauseum, we have times where there's compensation for the loss of others. but even those times are episodic and not sustained, so the average really does still matter.

hart is probably the only player whose sustained minutes concern me. and even that is situational. he'll be back to complaining about burn in no time. glad we've had him for such a tough time. precious going from never playing to getting an opportunity to lift heavy temporarily doesn't kill me. the 3 consecutive OG games of 40+ (not all of january) don't kill me. and even deuce stepping in for last night's emergency doesn't bother me much.

but those things are turned into a false narrarive that thibs is just doing that all the time on an ongoing basis. the cumulative minutes and surrounding activities (practices, etc.) are indeed being managed. i understand not liking thibs. i understand wanting a bigger rotation. but some folks (not saying you) either straight up lying or just don't mind making up numbers to support their stance. and a lot of it is (fairly) based on history, but it's not the state of things today.

[cgf]

Why is it that when I woke up I found myself thinking about the last possession in the 3rd where Bogie decided to leave Merrill wide open for 3 and opted to help on the driver.

Bojan is an impressive offensive player - and I feel the best is yet to come for him as our guys get back…and I truly feel he can be an X Factor not in the cliche way I mean tilt a series if he’s scorching hot…but man…it’s that kind of decision in the closing seconds that concerns you in a big moment.

It’s not even a lack of effort - in his mind he wanted to help contest on the drive partly because the backbone of a Thibs style defense is to shut off the paint valve…this is more of a low IQ choice that he made defensively - Merrill had made 5 threes prior to that basket and you get the sense that wasn’t even a thought in the back of Bogies mind

I know what you mean. Bojan's not quite on Julius' level when it comes to baffling decision making as a help defender, but for how pleasantly surprised I was by how quick his feet still are, I have been equally disappointed by the decisions he makes.

Hopefully that's something that improves as he learns the schemes & his team-mates better, because he could be a lot less of a sieve than he has been for us so far.

[Deeeez Knicks]

In terms of minutes, the total avg over the course of the season may look fine. It's the times where Thibs plays guys over 12-15 minutes straight. Or the needless games where he pushes our starters 40+ minutes or leaving starters in too long up 20.

He def has issues trusting the bench and overplays guys at times.

Is every injury because of Thibs? Of course not but it def wears players down.

I mean look how well Deuce played. There's def been games he could have spelled Brunson a little longer. Brunson has taken a beating this year.

[cgf]

In terms of minutes, the total avg over the course of the season may look fine. It's the times where Thibs plays guys over 12-15 minutes straight. Or the needless games where he pushes our starters 40+ minutes or leaving starters in too long up 20.

He def has issues trusting the bench and overplays guys at times.

Is every injury because of Thibs? Of course not but it def wears players down.

Thibs may be less willing to simply concede certain minutes because he doesn't have the depth to deal with those minutes without shortening the rotation, but he's not unique in this. He's no Nick Nurse, when the depth is there Thibs uses it

[Jeff Van Gully]

In terms of minutes, the total avg over the course of the season may look fine. It's the times where Thibs plays guys over 12-15 minutes straight. Or the needless games where he pushes our starters 40+ minutes or leaving starters in too long up 20.

He def has issues trusting the bench and overplays guys at times.

Is every injury because of Thibs? Of course not but it def wears players down.

i've never argued against any of these things. so many receipts of me in games asking why are these guys still in the game. etc.

some of the stretches are concerns. but, as you say, every injury ain't thibs fault. and the desire to blame literal contact injuries on him is wild.

we are better than the sum of our parts (as usual) because of the manical effort. thibs ain't out there playing these games. these players cut the same way and want to do whatever it takes to win on game day. hartenstein wants to play more (for various reasons). madman coach not burning him out.

if i'm thibs' lawyer for saying some of this, then some posters gotta accept being the prosecution. we got folks who contribute little to nothing else.

[Deeeez Knicks]

In terms of minutes, the total avg over the course of the season may look fine. It's the times where Thibs plays guys over 12-15 minutes straight. Or the needless games where he pushes our starters 40+ minutes or leaving starters in too long up 20.

He def has issues trusting the bench and overplays guys at times.

Is every injury because of Thibs? Of course not but it def wears players down.

Thibs may be less willing to simply concede certain minutes because he doesn't have the depth to deal with those minutes without shortening the rotation, but he's not unique in this. He's no Nick Nurse, when the depth is there Thibs uses it

Not all the time. It took guys getting hurt for others to get more time.

Just look at Deuces minutes. He goes from 5-10min to playing the entire game.

Thibs is still a very good coach. But yea, he has some quirks with the way he's runs his rotation and gives it minutes

[Jeff Van Gully]

In terms of minutes, the total avg over the course of the season may look fine. It's the times where Thibs plays guys over 12-15 minutes straight. Or the needless games where he pushes our starters 40+ minutes or leaving starters in too long up 20.

He def has issues trusting the bench and overplays guys at times.

Is every injury because of Thibs? Of course not but it def wears players down.

Thibs may be less willing to simply concede certain minutes because he doesn't have the depth to deal with those minutes without shortening the rotation, but he's not unique in this. He's no Nick Nurse, when the depth is there Thibs uses it

Not all the time. It took guys getting hurt for others to get more time.

Just look at Deuces minutes. He goes from 5-10min to playing the entire game.

Thibs is still a very good coach. But yea, he has some quirks with the way he's runs his rotation and gives it minutes

that's generally how rotations change though. that's when the opportunities present themselves. grimes is the only demotion i can think of, and it didn't happen overnight.

deuce has kind of been in an obi-like situation until the grimes trade. there aren't that many backup PG minutes to spare. thankfully he's rightly winning the side-by-side with MJ.

[Gravy]

This is how you know you and the handful of others who deny basic reality aren’t serious. Your only arguments are nonsense like this. You sound like Frozen Envelope saying “Thibs can’t prevent 100% of inuries” therefore Thibs isn’t responsible for any injury ever. Once you say stupid sh*t like that (or what you just said about Dolan and Embiid), there’s not much else to talk about.

Better question — why didn’t Charlie Brown get minutes last night? How much longer can DDV and Hart stay healthy?

Hey if Thibs is responsible for all injuries to his players regardless of how it happens then it's a matter of time before Charlie Brown gets hurt too. Maybe he slips on a wet spot after someone fakes him out with a basketball, now he's out because of Thibs ..

aren't you just arguing against yourself?
Brown , Jeffries and Toppin are not injured....they also never play....

If they play there's a risk they will get injured?

[robillionaire]

No, but for a 2nd seed they look like junk and we look like we are right there

We were the 2nd seed before everyone got hurt

I’d be down with the idea it just doesn't seem to fit with what I’m hearing about wanting a top shelf 1a superstar that’s better than Brunson and all that

It'll be Towns and Mikal Bridges and you all will love it and hate it

I actually would love it

[Deeeez Knicks]

Thibs may be less willing to simply concede certain minutes because he doesn't have the depth to deal with those minutes without shortening the rotation, but he's not unique in this. He's no Nick Nurse, when the depth is there Thibs uses it

Not all the time. It took guys getting hurt for others to get more time.

Just look at Deuces minutes. He goes from 5-10min to playing the entire game.

Thibs is still a very good coach. But yea, he has some quirks with the way he's runs his rotation and gives it minutes

that's generally how rotations change though. that's when the opportunities present themselves. grimes is the only demotion i can think of, and it didn't happen overnight.

deuce has kind of been in an obi-like situation until the grimes trade. there aren't that many backup PG minutes to spare. thankfully he's rightly winning the side-by-side with MJ.

True, but Thibs takes it to an extreme. Just using Deuce as an example again because it's fairly obvious. There's been games he has gotten 5 minutes while we run 7 man rotations with the starters getting 40+ minutes.

It's just not sustainable. In the regular season sometimes you just need young active bodies to eat minutes even if they make mistakes. Thibs is usually pretty reluctant to do that and prefers vets or to play his guys 40+ minutes

Again, still a very good coach. Just one of his flaws

[Fat Kat]

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[DOT]

If mpg isn't a problem, then why don't all star players play all 48 minutes every game?

[Wildcat]

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Do I blame him or the reporter asking such a stupid question?

[nykballa2k4]

Let the Shake Milton era begin

Signing with the CAA Knicks...

Same agent as OG!

[nykballa2k4]

Burks has averaged:

22min over his first 3 games
15min over the following 4 games
11min over his last 2 games

Next Stop:

We traded Fournier and Grimes to get black Fournier and tall Fournier.

Meanwhile real Fournier is playing effective ball