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donnie walsh townhall recap...

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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#61 » by TKF » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:47 pm

god shammgod wrote:
TKF wrote:
good point, and that is what I said. why use this rumor to criticize walsh when we didn't knwo if it was true or not,


you're back tracking again as usual, do i need to get your quotes ? you stated for a fact the rumor was a myth and it was foolish to think otherwise and several people called you out on it. then you changed your story to the one you're going with now. for whatever reason you can't just admit it but everyone involved in the original post knows the truth. whatever.


NO, I am going with the original quote I made in that thread.. But if you want to go that route. fine. The original article mentioned a zach for a second round pick, you believed it 100%.. the same writer came back, retracted that statement and said he learned that a first round pick from the knicks was involved, yet you called that lie... so which is it? This is where your argument falls flat... so say what you want, twist it how you want.. It all comes down to you hitting a brick wall no matter how you look at it.....
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#62 » by FlashFlood » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:53 pm

Wow this thread escalated pretty fast... It's unreadable right now. It's like "I believe X" "NUH UH!" "YUH UH!!" every post is like that... "yuh huh!!" "Nuhuh!!" lol.

Congrats, you guys hate each other and can't find common ground. Take it to email cause it's fuggn boring to read.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#63 » by god shammgod » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:56 pm

TKF wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
TKF wrote:
good point, and that is what I said. why use this rumor to criticize walsh when we didn't knwo if it was true or not,


you're back tracking again as usual, do i need to get your quotes ? you stated for a fact the rumor was a myth and it was foolish to think otherwise and several people called you out on it. then you changed your story to the one you're going with now. for whatever reason you can't just admit it but everyone involved in the original post knows the truth. whatever.


NO, I am going with the original quote I made in that thread.. But if you want to go that route. fine. The original article mentioned a zach for a second round pick, you believed it 100%.. the same writer came back, retracted that statement and said he learned that a first round pick from the knicks was involved, yet you called that lie... so which is it? This is where your argument falls flat... so say what you want, twist it how you want.. It all comes down to you hitting a brick wall no matter how you look at it.....


so me, mjhp and a few others who called you out in that thread all misread you, is that right ? please. you know the truth man, this is sad on your part. go ahead man get the last word. i know you need that to think you've "won" an argument.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#64 » by TKF » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:05 pm

so me, mjhp and a few others who called you out in that thread all misread you, is that right ? please. you know the truth man, this is sad on your part. go ahead man get the last word. i know you need that to think you've "won" an argument.[/quote]


later man... Poster after poster on this thread have tried to reason with you and have clearly showed you where you are just wrong... No need for me to continue... it is becomming a waste of time.. No need to bring in other posters I already dealt with. mjhp pretty much was arguing another point I made that clear . just answer my question... But I know you wont because it will lead to a road you refuse to go down... so I am officially done

peace..
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#65 » by mjhp911 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:09 pm

DE FENSE wrote:This ^^^^ crap is getting so old. Stop stuffing these threads with this useless garbage. Just give it up.

Not tryin to be a dikc, but what's the point in arguing over something that never happened? Its odd.


'Agreed. Just agree to disagree, and move on. NO ONE knows exactly what happened. Either scenario is plausible. The point is, Walsh WILL NOT just give 20 and 10 away for peanuts, cap space, or lesser value (or whatever combination thereof)... and I AGREE with him. That's the bottom line for me.

Anyway, thanks for the synopsis, DJ.

I like most of what I heard. Some of it is wishful thinking though. But I swallowed whatever Kool-Aid Zeke dished up, so I gotta' gulp all this down as well. Overall, it's positive for me. I'll hope for the best, keep cheering, and keep my fingers crossed.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#66 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:11 pm

god shammgod wrote:
stuporman wrote:You can try and be an azz in playing with my screen name to insult. You think I care about that? Not even remotely, I chose this name! But you trying to use it? That's lame, it's a shamm.......lol.


touche my man. i'll just end this. i just probably be more patient because less then a year from now when we're not getting one of the really good players in the draft and still haven't made the playoffs most of you will see my point.


Well, I'm glad you see it's really kinda fruitless to debate on a hypothetical possible based on what could be should be maybe if he or didn't he.

What I also think is my point about you being so sure about something that isn't quite so set in stone and basing your whole argument on it is way too accurate for you to address so it's better you bow out now. Otherwise your whole argument goes up in smoke if it's shown how this isn't what actually transpired.....or even how it hypothetically could have happened if he said, they said, that he did or didn't do it if it did or didn't be offered.... or if he would have if it was, or could...did it?

I agree with your argument's premise, if it is your argument or was it a hypothetical argument about it would have been best to deal Zach in a salary dump if it was offered, I just don't agree that it had to have actually happened that way based on rumor, comments that are questionably genuine and could have, would have. We don't know if it did or didn't based on rumor, bloggers, reporters with supposed 'insiders' and fan hysteria.

I don't know which is true, which rumor, what's posturing from Donnie or what Donnie would do or wouldn't do in hypothetical scenarios based on comments which could or couldn't be genuine.

It is true that it just might be that D'! gets these guys playing well enough to not have a top 10 pick but not well enough to make the playoffs. I guess we'll see. I don't know. It would suck if that happened but the odds are it would likely happen that way. If that's all your point is....fine. I agree, that would suck.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#67 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:14 pm

FlashFlood wrote:Wow this thread escalated pretty fast... It's unreadable right now. It's like "I believe X" "NUH UH!" "YUH UH!!" every post is like that... "yuh huh!!" "Nuhuh!!" lol.

Congrats, you guys hate each other and can't find common ground. Take it to email cause it's fuggn boring to read.


Yuh huh, um..I mean nuh huh...well, you clicked and read it. Nobody held a gun to your head.....or are they? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#68 » by mjhp911 » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:14 pm

mjhp pretty much was arguing another point I made that clear


For the record, I was calling out your statement about Kos' scenario being the only plausible one, and that arguing any other position would be 'agenda'-based, which is part of what Sham called you out for as well.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#69 » by god shammgod » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:20 pm

mjhp911 wrote:
mjhp pretty much was arguing another point I made that clear


For the record, I was calling out your statement about Kos' scenario being the only plausible one, and that arguing any other position would be 'agenda'-based, which is part of what Sham called you out for as well.


thanks. the reason this has gone on this long is because he just won't own up to his original comments. i bowed out gracefully in that original thread and the next day the self congratulating continued and i took offense. i'll stop now, i realize how annoying this is becoming.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#70 » by Luv those Knicks » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:29 pm

cgmw wrote:Here's the executive summary of what he said:

1. Jamal can be an All-Star
2. Marbury will be a part of the team to the extent that he wants to be
3. Zach is a 20/10 guy who can't be traded for less value
4. Curry is a young center with great feet
5. Nate is an athletic freak
6. I'm not shopping Lee
7. QRich lost weight, so he'll be good again
8. Fans hate Jeffries, but they used to hate Diaw too
9. Cap space in 2010 is my main priority

None of this is exactly jaw-dropping. For those of you who believe he was "candid," please take your heads out of your asses. He was being as positive as you can be without OBVIOUSLY lying. Given his position, I wouldn't expect anything less. I mean, it's not like he can just come out and say his players are crap and need to GTFO.




I wanted to address this, cause this is a fair point. You are correct, nothing he said was "jaw dropping" and you're also correct that "he can't come out and say his players are crap" What he said was pretty standard "straight from the memo" stuff.


But what is clear, because walsh has backed it up with action as well as words, is that He is playing for 2010 cap space, and he's right. NY is a place that players want to come to, so cap space in NY is more valuable than cap space in Charlotte or Milwaukee or Cleveland. That's a fact.


I also think it's important to recognize that GM's have a basic strategy, and while actually building a championship team is often as much luck (wining the rights to draft Tim Duncan) as skill - a good GM's strategy is still very useful.


To make my point - lets look at the last few GMs (and not quite GMs, but GM influences) the Knicks had.


Dave Checketts / Ernie Grunfeld - Patrick Ewing era (plan is to build around ewing, trade draft picks for guys like Rolando Blackman, Kiki Vandeweigh, Tony Campbell, and trade your PG (Mark Jackson) for Charles Smith, and feel like an idiot because you traded Rod Strickland just 6 months earlier.

Pat Riley - not a GM, but he wanted to be. After falling from the playoffs in 1995, Riley wanted to trade Ewing. He might have been right.

Ernie Grunfeld - in an interesting, team building move, he trades Charles Oakley for Marcus Camby. In hindsight, that move was brilliant, though at the time it was critisized.


Jeff van Gundy - yeah, he wasn't a GM, but he had say in what was done. Knicks could have traded Chris Childs & our pick for Andre Miller. Gundy said he liked Childs, but he benched him the following season.

Ed Tapscott - not sure if his intention was sabotage, or if he just loved Euros, but I think I speak for every knick fan everywhere when I say - WE HATE ED.


Scott Layden - OK, this is where it gets interesting. Perhaps Layden was influenced by Dolan, but Layden represented the "you can't rebuild in NY" philosophy. So, he was always trying to improve his team. First it was reloading with previously respectible, but unspectacular vets like Clarence Weatherspoon, Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson. Then it was the King Kong trade - Ewing for Luc Longley, Travis Knight and Glenn Rice. Then it was trading our draft pick for Eric Strickland, and then trading Eric Strickland for Othella Harrington.

Isiah - well, Isiah's strategy was basically "i'm not layden" - so I'm going to trade everybody I can just to prove that I'm not Layden, and, I want to win now, so I'll give up 2 draft picks for Marbury, and I'll take on a boatload of Salary for Jamal, and Eddy Curry excites me to the point of daily masterbation, so I'll give up my first born son to get this guy.


and Larry Brown, while not a GM, had influence and his strategy was - I can't win some some of these guys. Jimmy, make some trades for me, get me Jalen Rose and Steve Francis, and I want to cut Marbury, Ariza, Nate and a few other guys I don't remember. Larry's strategy was, cut half the team, keep the guys who don't hate me.


So now we have a GM who says he's going to look at the players, and he's going to give Marbury a chance, and that's fine with me, cause, while it's not earth shaking (and Isiah's strategy of trade everybody was kinda earthshaking), I think Walsh is being as upfront and as honest as he can be and I think his 2010 cap strategy is a pretty good one. I don't detect any obvious signs of BS in anything he's saying, well, with the possible exception of Q. There might be a bit of wishful thinking there. I think Q's done.

But we did get a basic outline of Walsh's strategy, unlike Isiah, he's not going to trade the farm in his first week in office, but he is going to try to improve the team and he's going to consider trades. He's building a team for 2010, not next month.

so, the real judgement of Walsh should come over the next 2 years when he makes the big decisions, and that's fine. It also tells us waht to expect. Obviously, walsh isn't opposed to making changes, he's just not in a rush to do so. Really, GM's do deserve to be judged upon the big moves they make, and it's OK if they take a few months to do their first big move.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#71 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:40 pm

god shammgod wrote:this the post of someone who's delusional.
fixed
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#72 » by god shammgod » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:43 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
god shammgod wrote:this the post of someone who's delusional.
fixed


so you think q will return to form and crawford will become like allan houston or reggie miller. is that what you're saying ? you believe those comments ?
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#73 » by TKF » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:47 pm

mjhp911 wrote:
mjhp pretty much was arguing another point I made that clear


For the record, I was calling out your statement about Kos' scenario being the only plausible one, and that arguing any other position would be 'agenda'-based, which is part of what Sham called you out for as well.


right, and for the record, I said to you, maybe the wording I used in that post was pretty strong and absolute.. but we can argue semantics all day. MY point to shagod is this...I am not sure you are aware, but in that thread, a poster was giving walsh the business because he stated as if it were a fact that walsh turned down a deal of zach for a second round pick... One poster came out and said he wish people didn't do that, especially without knowing if that rumor was even true or not. I came in and myself first stated, that "we should not crucify walsh, epecially for a deal that we don't know was ever on the table"... I stand by that as the basis of my argument.. Now some want to argue what is possible. I don't want to do that, I can't do that. For all I know, the clippers asked for zach, lee, a first round pick and a free years supply of NY style pizza for all I know.. that is not my concern, what is possible or plausible... MY only concern was not to trash walsh for something he didn't do, or some hypothetical... But let me ask you this... If you based your whole argument on a report, and then the same reporter came back and pretty much retracted his article with an update, wouldn't it make sense to also believe that report? why just ignore that? Doing so just makes it seem like you have some sort of agenda, especially if the reason not to belive it, is that it doesn't support what you want to be..... that is a fair question... So really when you came on, you were arguing not so much my point, but how I said it.. there is a difference.... but again, I am so ready to move on.. .. :lol:
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#74 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:54 pm

TKF wrote:
mjhp911 wrote:
mjhp pretty much was arguing another point I made that clear


For the record, I was calling out your statement about Kos' scenario being the only plausible one, and that arguing any other position would be 'agenda'-based, which is part of what Sham called you out for as well.


right, and for the record blah blah blah, I said to you, maybe the wording I used in that post was pretty strong and absolute.. blah blah blah but we can argue semantics all day. MY point to shagod is this...I am not sure you are aware blah blah blah , but in that thread, a poster was giving walsh the business because he stated as if it were a fact that walsh turned down a deal of zach for a second round pick... blah blah blah One poster came out and said he wish people didn't do that, especially without knowing if that rumor was even true or not blah blah blah. I came in and myself first stated, that "we should not crucify walsh, epecially for a deal that we don't know was ever on the table"... I stand by that as the basis of my argument.. Now some want to argue what is possibleblah blah blah blah. I don't want to do that, I can't do that. For all I know, the clippers asked for zach, lee, a first round pick and a free years supply of NY style pizza for all I know.. blah blah blah that is not my concern, what is possible or plausible... MY only concern was not to trash walsh for something he didn't do, or some hypothetical...blah blah blah But let me ask you this... If you based your whole argument on a report, and then the same reporter came back and pretty much retracted his article with an update, wouldn't it make sense to also believe that report? blah blah blah why just ignore that? Doing so just makes it seem like you have some sort of agenda, blah blah blah especially if the reason not to belive it, is that it doesn't support what you want to be..... that is a fair question... blah blah blah So really when you came on, you were arguing not so much my point, but how I said it.. there is a difference....blah blah blah but again, I am so ready to move on.. .. :lol:


:droop: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm free NY style pizza...........
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#75 » by TKF » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:59 pm

^^ yea.. NY style... LOL
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#76 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:02 pm

TKF wrote:^^ yea.. NY style... LOL


I live in AZ where NY style pizza is the same crappy AZ pizza served by people who lived in NY at one time.
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#77 » by NoLayupRule » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:04 pm

god shammgod wrote:
NoLayupRule wrote:
god shammgod wrote:this the post of someone who's delusional.
fixed


so you think q will return to form and crawford will become like allan houston or reggie miller. is that what you're saying ? you believe those comments ?

I do not believe the sky is falling and this team has zero talent, like you apparently do.'

I do not believe that everything that I hear that contradicts my preconception is a lie and everything that supports it is a truth, as you apparently do.

I do think Crawford is one of this leagues better scorers and has never played for a coach or on a team that could come close to raising him to his ability level, though part of the fault certainly lies with Jamal himself. I do not think Houston or Miller are good comparisons for Jamal but obviously Walsh isnt suggesting this, hes just using players who had break out years as examples from his past. You should be able to understand that.

I think Q's troubles have been principally health related and secondarily team related. I think Q's shooting is confidence based first and system based second. I think both will improve with D'Antoni. I think he is a very solid rebounder and defender as well as a good post scorer and leader. I think we will get a good season from Q this year if he can keep weight off his back.

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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#78 » by TKF » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:06 pm

stuporman wrote:
TKF wrote:^^ yea.. NY style... LOL


I live in AZ where NY style pizza is the same crappy AZ pizza served by people who lived in NY at one time.


LOL. well here in georgia, we have this place called Johnny's NY style pizza and none of the people making the pizza has ever been to NY... hahaha...

It is hard to get that type of pizza anywhere else... I would kill to get a slice of NY pizza. I remember growing up in the bronx, we had this place called prospect pizza.. absolutely one of the best...
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#79 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:12 pm

TKF wrote:
stuporman wrote:
TKF wrote:^^ yea.. NY style... LOL


I live in AZ where NY style pizza is the same crappy AZ pizza served by people who lived in NY at one time.


LOL. well here in georgia, we have this place called Johnny's NY style pizza and none of the people making the pizza has ever been to NY... hahaha...

It is hard to get that type of pizza anywhere else... I would kill to get a slice of NY pizza. I remember growing up in the bronx, we had this place called prospect pizza.. absolutely one of the best...


Well, if you're from GA and live there it's probably better to never admit you've actually ever been to NY...that could get a southern man killed!
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Re: donnie walsh townhall recap... 

Post#80 » by stuporman » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:16 pm

I'm tired of waiting for Crawford's supposed breakout season. He's a chucker, always was a chucker, always will be one. The only benefit he could possibly get from a D'! system is his shortcomings and there are alot of them, will be concealed.

Q on the other hand could actually benefit from D'! and his system. Will he ever be as good as his season in Phx under D'! ? Not likely. Just need him to be effective and healthy for the time he's out there.
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