Knicks trade for Josh Hart

rajajackal · Post #901 » by **rajajackal** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:45 pm

given that we aren't tanking, i'm not thinking about the lottery. all i care is that we own a 1st round pick at all. we still have that trusty dallas pick (which is currently 4 slots more valuable than our own was)

very comfortable finding useful talent in the mid to late 1st round with our current FO. the issue with the trade wasn't that hart wasn't worth an excess 1st, but that cam wasn't considered a value add in the trade because of how we handled him here

stuporman · Post #902 » by **stuporman** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:52 pm

This particular draft's mid and late first round picks, even early second rounders, seem more valuable than many other drafts because of the draft class so this might have added to the ire of Knicks fans about those picks.

Guano · Post #903 » by **Guano** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:59 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Gravy wrote:If people are upset about losing the pick we can try to re-sign Knox, Frank, Mudiay, Vonleh and Elfrid. Thats FIVE 1st round picks to trade for a star

Well I know we can expect whoever is selected by Portland (or the next 10 picks after that one) to be dragged out any time they have a good game. But I am good with Hart

or we could have used that pick to help us trade for a star. don't underestimate us miserable posters ability to contrive some made up possibility to try to ruin others enjoyment. we have options here.

Moose · Post #904 » by **Moose** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:00 pm

It's currently the 22nd pick. I'm not happy that we did the trade because we are going to tie up more money in Hart, but I'm going to reserve judgement and see what they do in the offseason.

I think the Knicks are going to to trade for a "star" wing/guard and that's going to include RJ Barrett and probably Obi.

And so Hart/Grimes will make up the rest of that 2/3 rotation in the lineup along with the new addition.

And Quickly will be the primary 1 (mixed with minutes at the 2) off the bench.

If rumors are true, didn't they try to ship out RJ for LaVine at the deadline?

Gravy · Post #905 » by **Gravy** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:06 pm

rajajackal wrote:given that we aren't tanking, i'm not thinking about the lottery. all i care is that we own a 1st round pick at all. we still have that trusty dallas pick (which is currently 4 slots more valuable than our own was)

very comfortable finding useful talent in the mid to late 1st round with our current FO. the issue with the trade wasn't that hart wasn't worth an excess 1st, but that cam wasn't considered a value add in the trade because of how we handled him here

If Cam was a detriment to the team because of his awful defense, I'm not sure what they could have done to make him look good while we are trying to win games. Its still early but the difference between him and Josh Hart is like night and day.

Maybe Portland needs different skills from Cam than we do so they can get more out of him

robillionaire · Post #906 » by **robillionaire** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:11 pm

Gravy wrote:
rajajackal wrote:given that we aren't tanking, i'm not thinking about the lottery. all i care is that we own a 1st round pick at all. we still have that trusty dallas pick (which is currently 4 slots more valuable than our own was)

very comfortable finding useful talent in the mid to late 1st round with our current FO. the issue with the trade wasn't that hart wasn't worth an excess 1st, but that cam wasn't considered a value add in the trade because of how we handled him here

If Cam was a detriment to the team because of his awful defense, I'm not sure what they could have done to make him look good while we are trying to win games. Its still early but the difference between him and Josh Hart is like night and day.

Maybe Portland needs different skills from Cam than we do so they can get more out of him

I don’t know what different skill cam may have that hart doesn’t, he doesn’t appear to do anything better than Hart does from what I can tell

Cam has a low motor, plays selfishly on offense, not a great shooter, poor shot selection, and defense ranges from average to poor, and also apparently doesn’t have a good attitude. Hart is shooting a low percentage this year too but he seems the opposite of Cam

rajajackal · Post #907 » by **rajajackal** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:07 pm

Gravy wrote:
rajajackal wrote:given that we aren't tanking, i'm not thinking about the lottery. all i care is that we own a 1st round pick at all. we still have that trusty dallas pick (which is currently 4 slots more valuable than our own was)

very comfortable finding useful talent in the mid to late 1st round with our current FO. the issue with the trade wasn't that hart wasn't worth an excess 1st, but that cam wasn't considered a value add in the trade because of how we handled him here

If Cam was a detriment to the team because of his awful defense, I'm not sure what they could have done to make him look good while we are trying to win games. Its still early but the difference between him and Josh Hart is like night and day.

Maybe Portland needs different skills from Cam than we do so they can get more out of him

i don't know if you tracked that i was in support of the trade. i'm a day 1 josh hart adopter, i love what he brings to the team. people act like he wasn't worth a 1st, but forget that our 1st is in the 20's and that we have the dallas pick which is right outside the lottery

however, cam + the contract filler alone should have been able to net you hart. instead, we had to attach a 1st, because cam had essentially zero value due to us publicly rejecting him for months prior to dealing. that's a commentary on a failure by management, not a cam vs hart conversation

stuporman · Post #908 » by **stuporman** » Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:30 pm

If I wanted the Knicks to draft Hart with one of their later picks and was interested in him through his early career but still am concerned with the way this FO uses the 1st rounders including one to trade for Cam then the additional one to flip for Hart does that make me a denier/hater or a stan/supporter?

I dunno, It's confusing...how about I'm team stfu&gtfo, yea...that's it.

8516knicks · Post #909 » by **8516knicks** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:40 am

stuporman wrote:Things aren't black and white, all one or all the other. Fans can like Hart, like getting him in the deal but still question something about it like the cost or the cumulative cost considering the lineage of the deals this FO has used to this point.

This FO isn't immune to any criticism but they also shouldn't be completely dismissed either because they have some positives as well. They were praised for signing iHart but as he struggled early that opinion changed which then changed again as soon as he started to come around.

There were the criticisms of assets wasted and contract cost of getting Brunson at the beginning but now that opinion has completely changed. So to try and hold this poster or that one to one moment in time or one comment as being their opinion forever is pretty inane and disingenuous.

As new information comes to light, things progress and unfold we are allowed to change our opinion along with it. If someone is the type that invests so much of their self worth and validation into their opinion then they likely are the type who projects that personal validation onto others' opinions.

I know this is an internet forum and we talk crap about everything all the time so even if that's good ass game it's also good to keep things in perspective...it's not that big of a deal, it's just people talking on the internet.

]

I agree and well said; but doesn't it all just boil down to Rodney King's "Can't we all just get along?"

The Lamma · Post #910 » by **The Lamma** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:57 am

Hart as a Knick

17/5.3/2.7/1.7 steals

bearadonisdna · Post #911 » by **bearadonisdna** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:03 am

So 1 a frp and cam for 22 games of JHart off the bench.
Leon frp 3d chess or what?

bearadonisdna · Post #912 » by **bearadonisdna** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:16 am

With the 2024 unp the Knicks select cap room.
A pick we could have used in a DM trade. It might seem like another punt on the draft despite having more picks.

thebuzzardman · Post #913 » by **thebuzzardman** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:29 pm

The Lamma wrote:Hart as a Knick

17/5.3/2.7/1.7 steals

Disappointing rebounding totals

thebuzzardman · Post #914 » by **thebuzzardman** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:57 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:So 1 a frp and cam for 22 games of JHart off the bench.
Leon frp 3d chess or what?

Leon not that great but at least this FO pivots off mistakes.

Other fans and posters seem to want to just eat the mistake and not try to get better.

Obviously best case scenario is where they don't screw up in the first place. Oh well.

god shammgod · Post #915 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:20 pm

Read on Twitter

3toheadmelo · Post #916 » by **3toheadmelo** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:23 pm

god shammgod wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Look who’s number one

robillionaire · Post #917 » by **robillionaire** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:26 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Look who’s number one

They have the Knicks at 8th and the queens in front of us and that’s a joke so we are 7th as far as I’m concerned

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-power-rankings-celtics-lead-pack-at-all-star-break-knicks-in-top-10-lakers-warriors-disappoint/

3toheadmelo · Post #918 » by **3toheadmelo** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:30 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Look who’s number one

They have the Knicks at 8th and the queens in front of us and that’s a joke so we are 7th as far as I’m concerned

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-power-rankings-celtics-lead-pack-at-all-star-break-knicks-in-top-10-lakers-warriors-disappoint/

Let me just talk schit to sham real quick :lol:

god shammgod · Post #919 » by **god shammgod** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:42 pm

I didn’t read that part

B8RcDeMktfxC · Post #920 » by **B8RcDeMktfxC** » Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:43 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:So 1 a frp and cam for 22 games of JHart off the bench.
Leon frp 3d chess or what?

Leon not that great but at least this FO pivots off mistakes.

Other fans and posters seem to want to just eat the mistake and not try to get better.

Obviously best case scenario is where they don't screw up in the first place. Oh well.

FO pivots like prime 2021-2022 spin cycle Jules