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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#41 » by spaceballer » Sun May 19, 2013 11:07 am

kneega wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:JR is NOT a restricted free agent....once he opts out he becomes UNRESTRICTED, just like last year.

The word "match" is being misused, the Knicks cannot match anything JR sign with another club, if he signs he's gone.

JR has been in the league more than 4 years, he doesn't qualify for Restricted free agent status.


Can you list in your original "JR" post what the max another team could offer JR pls?


JR will have 9 yrs of experience in the NBA. For players with 7-9 yrs of NBA experience, their max starting salary is at 30% of the cap. This would have been $16,402,500 for the 2012-2013 season, but it hasn't been set for the 2013-2014 season yet. You have to wait for the league to tally up income and set next year's cap first, in order to know what the 30% cap figure would be for his eligible starting max salary.

Also, since other teams don't hold his bird rights, they can only offer him up to 4 yrs, with a 4.5% yearly raise.

Even if he's a 6th man of the yr, I doubt he'll get a max contract of 4 yrs with probably over $17M per year, especially with teams being more luxury tax conscious and given some of the doubts from his playoff performance. And if he did, there's no way the Knicks can afford him, since that's way over the Early Bird Rights allowance.

moocow007 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Pharm, JR wont be restricted in any way for or fashion, they can't "match", JR would have to turn down offers on his own....we have no control over JR once he opts out.

As far as K-mart that is a "best case scenario" post per the question of the poster.

i think K-Mart is hell bent on proving he still has value, and will take it elsewhere if offered.

I'll wait for deuce on Copelands deal, but imo , i think Grunwald dropped the ball on that one.


I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure they actually can match as long as the offer sheet doesn't exceed the Early Bird Exception amount (which is the same as the amount of whatever the full MLE would normally be).

Thugger is correct. While the Knicks may have the salary cap capability of financially offering the same amount as another team up to the limits of the Early Bird exception, they are not allowed to "match" a signed contract because he's an unrestricted free agent. They're not even allowed to "match" a Vet Min contract.

They may offer similar or identical terms (within the limits of the Early Bird exception) during parallel negotiations that JR may pursue, leveraging teams against each other in a bidding war. But once he signs a contract, the Knicks are not given the legal option of matching that contract and forcing him to remain a Knick (even if the Knicks have the financial wherewithal to do so via the Early Bird Rights exception). He's an unrestricted free agent, which is a separate status from Bird rights.

Restricted/Unrestricted status determines whether a team is allowed to legally match any signed contract and force him to remain on the team. Full or Early Bird Rights determine the extent of the monetary salary exception you can use to go over the salary cap to do so (whether in matching, or in an independent offering), but it does not offer the legal right to match a signed contract and force him to remain.

Knicks have JR's Early Bird Rights, but do not have him under Restricted status.

There is no offer sheet to match. He's not a Restricted free agent, and thus will not present any offer sheet to the Knicks after reaching a contract agreement with another team.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#42 » by three2theD » Sun May 19, 2013 7:08 pm

If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#43 » by Thugger HBC » Sun May 19, 2013 7:56 pm

three2theD wrote:If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?

At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#44 » by three2theD » Sun May 19, 2013 9:14 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
three2theD wrote:If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?

At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Thanks. I was hoping if they retired that would give us some flexibility.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#45 » by Thugger HBC » Sun May 19, 2013 9:50 pm

three2theD wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
three2theD wrote:If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?

At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Thanks. I was hoping if they retired that would give us some flexibility.

The best bet would be to find out who's malcontent, yet talented player is available and ship one or both to them, and they retire on spot in a new uniform. (Tyreke or Cousins?)

Kidd and camby really provide no cap relief, just opens the door POSSIBLY on more exceptions.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#46 » by rdogg1026 » Sun May 19, 2013 11:20 pm

From NBA.com:

To make matters worse, any team that exceeds the cap "apron" - which is $4 million over the existing luxury tax level - is not allowed to bring in a player in a sign-and-trade deal. That team also will only be able to offer a three-year mid-level exception deal to a free agent rather than the four-year exception that teams under the apron can offer, putting them at a bargaining disadvantage on the open market.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#47 » by GSG_pies » Mon May 20, 2013 1:36 am

Can the Knicks still use the stetch clause where a team is able to stetch a players contract over extra years if they release a player with a bad contract?
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#48 » by Luv those Knicks » Mon May 20, 2013 2:23 am

Is there any hidden value in Camby's or Kidd's contracts, where they could be traded then the team who gets them could buy them out for less than contract?

overall it sounds like NY is in a tough spot, unless they pull off some clever trades.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#49 » by Thugger HBC » Mon May 20, 2013 2:38 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:Is there any hidden value in Camby's or Kidd's contracts, where they could be traded then the team who gets them could buy them out for less than contract?

overall it sounds like NY is in a tough spot, unless they pull off some clever trades.

The only value i see in their deals is if a team had a slightly overpaid player that they wanted to trade, and likely both players would retire upon trade.

I do think Grunwald will once again get creative, and his first move beyond the draft will be getting under the apron, so make possible s&t options.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#50 » by Context » Mon May 20, 2013 4:55 am

We can still ship 3 million per year to a trading partner right?
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#51 » by Context » Mon May 20, 2013 4:57 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
three2theD wrote:If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?

At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Can we confirm this?
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#52 » by Thugger HBC » Mon May 20, 2013 5:10 am

kneega wrote:We can still ship 3 million per year to a trading partner right?

Nope, we paid Douglas salary of 2 mil for Houston in return for the Camby S&T

kneega wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
three2theD wrote:If Kidd and Camby retire, what impact does that have on our cap situation?

At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Can we confirm this?

If those two retire as healthy players and forfeit their salary their contracts do not count towards the cap.

That 7.5 mil takes the team under the apron and allow more exceptions to be used.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#53 » by Context » Mon May 20, 2013 5:23 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
kneega wrote:We can still ship 3 million per year to a trading partner right?

Nope, we paid Douglas salary of 2 mil for Houston in return for the Camby S&T

kneega wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Can we confirm this?

If those two retire as healthy players and forfeit their salary their contracts do not count towards the cap.

That 7.5 mil takes the team under the apron and allow more exceptions to be used.


Cool... That trade happened on July 9/10th...I'm assuming we would have 3 million in cash to play with after that date- yes?
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#54 » by Thugger HBC » Mon May 20, 2013 5:27 am

Yeah, the 3 mil recycles after each season (June 30), they'd actually have that option July 1, so they could technically pay the majority of Kidd salary (one of the years remaining) in a trade for a player.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#55 » by Context » Mon May 20, 2013 6:26 am

Thugger HBC wrote:Yeah, the 3 mil recycles after each season (June 30), they'd actually have that option July 1, so they could technically pay the majority of Kidd salary (one of the years remaining) in a trade for a player.

Exactly...we have some workable years in potential deal...
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#56 » by Luv those Knicks » Mon May 20, 2013 7:34 am

It's a small point, but would you trade the #24 pick to help get a player for next year? I kinda think you have to at this point.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#57 » by moocow007 » Mon May 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
three2theD wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:At best it could possible bring the team under the apron to be able to make sign and trades.

Other than that, their salaries dont affect the cap at all....it just makes Dolan pay more luxury tax.


Thanks. I was hoping if they retired that would give us some flexibility.

The best bet would be to find out who's malcontent, yet talented player is available and ship one or both to them, and they retire on spot in a new uniform. (Tyreke or Cousins?)

Kidd and camby really provide no cap relief, just opens the door POSSIBLY on more exceptions.


Evans would be a good get in that scenario.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#58 » by makeitstop » Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 pm

This may come in handy here in the next few weeks.

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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#59 » by TheBigBoss » Tue May 21, 2013 3:26 am

makeitstop wrote:This may come in handy here in the next few weeks.

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I'm considering making this my sig.
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Re: Knicks CBA FAQ Thread 

Post#60 » by TheBigBoss » Tue May 21, 2013 3:29 am

Luv those Knicks wrote:It's a small point, but would you trade the #24 pick to help get a player for next year? I kinda think you have to at this point.


No, we need to kee picks unless there is absolutely no one out there that could help us at that point in the draft.

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