Knicks select Rokas Jokubaitis (34th overall)

[Capn'O]

...

Don't mind Buzz. He's just trollin'.

[UcanUwill]

...

Don't mind Buzz. He's just trollin'.

I understand, just want to provide my opinion if some clouds cover Jokubaitis' situation over here. Bringing him in 2021 would have done nothing for the Knicks.

[HarthorneWingo]

...

Don't mind Buzz. He's just trollin'.

I understand, just want to provide my opinion if some clouds cover Jokubaitis' situation over here. Bringing him in 2021 would have done nothing for the Knicks.

Is Rokus staying in Europe for the '22-'23 season?

[thebuzzardman]

...

Don't mind Buzz. He's just trollin'.

Moi?

[thebuzzardman]

Don't mind Buzz. He's just trollin'.

I understand, just want to provide my opinion if some clouds cover Jokubaitis' situation over here. Bringing him in 2021 would have done nothing for the Knicks.

Is Rokus staying in Europe for the '22-'23 season?

He's still 19? Or will turn 20?

Already 21+

Born: November 19, 2000 (Age: 21-174d)

So, he'll be age 22 during the 2022-23 season and 23 during the 23-34 season.

Age 22 sounds like he should come over, but age is a number etc. If he needs two more year, he needs two more years.
Knicks hopefully have an assessment of his game, his growth path and a realistic path and plan regarding players they have under contract, in particular D Rose. If they are going to keep him, and they plan to use IQ at PG, what's the point of Joku sitting on the bench as the 3rd or 4th PG?

I'd think, at the least, Knicks need to move D Rose, though I doubt they will, or wait a year until D Rose expires.

[DOT]

I understand, just want to provide my opinion if some clouds cover Jokubaitis' situation over here. Bringing him in 2021 would have done nothing for the Knicks.

Is Rokus staying in Europe for the '22-'23 season?

He's still 19? Or will turn 20?

Already 21+

Born: November 19, 2000 (Age: 21-174d)

So, he'll be age 22 during the 2022-23 season and 23 during the 23-34 season.

Age 22 sounds like he should come over, but age is a number etc. If he needs two more year, he needs two more years.
Knicks hopefully have an assessment of his game, his growth path and a realistic path and plan regarding players they have under contract, in particular D Rose. If they are going to keep him, and they plan to use IQ at PG, what's the point of Joku sitting on the bench as the 3rd or 4th PG?

I'd think, at the least, Knicks need to move D Rose, though I doubt they will, or wait a year until D Rose expires.

He's said he doesn't want to come over if he's not gonna get minutes

So since it's Thibs who's allergic to trying anything new, Rokas isn't coming over next year

Because nothing is gonna change, we're gonna have a PG rotation of Burks/Rose next year, with Quick and McBride being the emergency backups when Rose gets injured, so there'll be no minutes for Rokas. And that's assuming we don't do something like draft TyTy or sign another PG, or trot out Kemba again

Which is probably good for him and us, give him a year to develop in Europe while giving us an extra year of control on his contract.

[thebuzzardman]

Is Rokus staying in Europe for the '22-'23 season?

He's still 19? Or will turn 20?

Already 21+

Born: November 19, 2000 (Age: 21-174d)

So, he'll be age 22 during the 2022-23 season and 23 during the 23-34 season.

Age 22 sounds like he should come over, but age is a number etc. If he needs two more year, he needs two more years.
Knicks hopefully have an assessment of his game, his growth path and a realistic path and plan regarding players they have under contract, in particular D Rose. If they are going to keep him, and they plan to use IQ at PG, what's the point of Joku sitting on the bench as the 3rd or 4th PG?

I'd think, at the least, Knicks need to move D Rose, though I doubt they will, or wait a year until D Rose expires.

He's said he doesn't want to come over if he's not gonna get minutes

So since it's Thibs who's allergic to trying anything new, Rokas isn't coming over next year

Because nothing is gonna change, we're gonna have a PG rotation of Burks/Rose next year, with Quick and McBride being the emergency backups when Rose gets injured, so there'll be no minutes for Rokas. And that's assuming we don't do something like draft TyTy or sign another PG, or trot out Kemba again

Which is probably good for him and us, give him a year to develop in Europe while giving us an extra year of control on his contract.

I think they'll do IQ/Rose if Rose is healthy or FA signing/S&T/DRose, with IQ available as the emergency guard.

Burks got elevated because the Knicks were down 2 PG's and of course, Thibs being allergic to playing young guys/trying something different. I suppose the counter argument is that they didn't want to ruin IQ at PG because he wasn't ready, but do we really believe that based on Thib's history? Still, it's a possibility, as we really don't know, though I consider it remote.
Still feel that if Thibs has two PGs who can play, Burks won't see all that much time at PG, though it's possible he'd still reach for him over IQ if the new PG was hurt - where he'd keep Rose at the bench PG, but not start IQ.

[moocow007]

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

I wouldn’t mind stashing him another year for development until the Knicks figure out how to clear out some of the clutter on the roster

[moocow007]

Regarding Thibs never playing young players and not developing young players...

People need to remember that the Bulls pretty much for the entire Thibs tenure were among the top group of teams in the NBA. What the meant is that their draft position and the guys they drafted were not exactly expected to do much. So the notion that Thibs never really plays rookies may be a bit overblown here.

Here's a list of the draft picks (rookies) that played for head coach Thibs:

Head coach of the Bulls

2010-2011 - Omer Asik
2011-2012 - Jimmy Butler
2012-2013 - Marquis Teague
2013-2014 - Erick Murphy, Tony Snell
2014-2015 - Nikola Mirotic, Cameron Bairstaw, Doug McDermott

Head coach of the Wolves

2016-2017 - Kris Dunn
2017-2018 - Justin Patton
2018-2019 - Mitch Creek, Josh Okogie, Jared Terrell

Head coach of the Knicks

2020-2021 - Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley
2021-2022 - Quentin Grimes, Jericho Sims, Miles McBride, Feron Hunt

Other than Jimmy Butler (and maybe Nikola Mirotic) we're not exactly talking about guys that have proven in their NBA careers that they deserved major playing time.

Omer Asik was a 2nd round pick and Thibs played him all 82 games of his rookie season as the backup C.

Jimmy Butler lest folks not realize was the last pick of the 1st round (NO ONE EXPECTED HIM TO BECOME WHO HE BECAME) and joined the Bulls during a lockout shortened season where there was no training camp or summer league on a top team that already were clogged at the forward position with proven guys...and even he became part of the rotation after the All-Star break. Once Butler and Thibs got past the short lockout season and Thibs saw what he had Butler was an integral part of his team.

Marquis Teague got playing time under Thibs even though and again the Bulls were a contending team. And it wasn't like Teague showed that he was an NBA caliber player for his career (he wasn't his much more talented brother Jeff Teague) managing to bounce around the NBA for just a handful of seasons.

Tony Snell was the 20th overall pick and as a rookie was part of the Bulls rotation averaging 16mpg across 72 games as a rookie. Snell has turned out to pretty much be exactly what he is right? A backup caliber role player. Not unexpected.

Nikola Mirotic was the 23rd overall pick and just like Snell the year before, was a part of the Bulls rotation averaging 20.2mpg playing in all 82 games in his rookie season.

Kris Dunn was also a regular part of the Wolves rotation as a rookie. Dunn was a high draft pick but it should be pretty clear that he was a bust at this point so not sure that Thibs should be criticized for not playing Dunn more minutes as a rookie. I remember when folks were chirping about how great Dunn was heading into the 2016 draft and me saying (repeatedly) that Dunn wasn't even a PG and that he had bust expectations written all over him. And that's what the Wolves drafted him to be. And he was brutal at it. Hard to criticize Thibs unless you guys expect Thibs to teach him how to be an NBA PG?

Josh Okogie was a significant part of the Wolves rotation as a rookie averaging 23.7mpg as the Wolves primary backup at SG. Okogie has turned out to be exactly what Thibs played him to be as a rookie, a real solid role player.

Obi Toppin? Toppin was a rookie in Randle's MIP season where Randle was carrying the Knicks to the playoffs. And unless we want to flip things, Toppin was playing like he had a deer-in-the-headlights look whenever he was on the floor as a rookie.

Immanuel Quickley was regular part of the Knicks rotation as a rookie averaging nearly 20mpg as a rookie. IQ was drafted 25th overall, was not a lottery pick.

Quentin Grimes appeared to be a part of Thibs favored group of players prior to going down with injury. And we're talking about a 25th overall pick not a lottery pick.

The rest of the guys were/are all 2nd round picks that either has not had any real NBA time in their careers or that fans shouldn't be bitching about needing a lot of playing time.

So what rookies has Thibs not played that he should have played? Folks are getting carried away with this Thibs never plays young players thing.

As far as developing young players? What young players has Thibs had that showed signs that they should have been developed but wasn't under his tenure as head coaches at any of the teams he's been at? Derrick Rose? Taj Gibson? Joakim Noah? Jimmy Butler? RJ Barrett? Julius Randle even? Mitch Robinson? All these guys have credited Thibs with becoming the players they became.

What young players have Thibs held back that proved that he was wrong and shouldn't have held back? Doug McDermott? He's the only guy that Thibs never really liked or played during their tenure together that turned out to be anything remotely useful and it took McDermott almost a decade to show that he can be a solid to good role player. Do we want to blame Thibs for stunting Dougy McBuckets growth?

[DOT]

Quentin Grimes appeared to be a part of Thibs favored group of players prior to going down with injury. And we're talking about a 25th overall pick not a lottery pick.

See, when you say stuff like this, it makes me doubt the rest of your evaluations, because this is an obvious retcon

Grimes didn't get minutes until injuries forced Thibs to play him, and only after playing well and injuries continuing to pile up did he continue to get minutes

If anything, this is an indication that Thibs is clueless, because he couldn't recognize Grimes' value in practice, because there's no way that Grimes wouldn't have been good if he had gotten minutes from the start.

[moocow007]

Quentin Grimes appeared to be a part of Thibs favored group of players prior to going down with injury. And we're talking about a 25th overall pick not a lottery pick.

See, when you say stuff like this, it makes me doubt the rest of your evaluations, because this is an obvious retcon

Grimes didn't get minutes until injuries forced Thibs to play him, and only after playing well and injuries continuing to pile up did he continue to get minutes

If anything, this is an indication that Thibs is clueless, because he couldn't recognize Grimes' value in practice, because there's no way that Grimes wouldn't have been good if he had gotten minutes from the start.

Read the rest of my post. Try. Instead of nitpicking. Grimes was the 25th overall pick again.

Which rookies has Thibs held back that has proven him wrong? Doug McDermott?

[DOT]

Read the rest of my post. Try. Instead of nitpicking.

Well like I said

Since you're blatantly wrong about Grimes' situation, that brings into question the rest of your post

Also, what does where they were picked matter? Good coaches don't discriminate because of draft position, if you're saying Thibs just assumes guys who were picked later aren't worth minutes, and so doesn't even care if they're good in practice and doesn't put them on the court, then that's yet another strike against him.

[SelbyCobra]

Any [deserved] excitement from Knicks fans about Rokas needs to be tempered due to the the fact that Utah has a disgruntled volume scorer potentially wanting out and the Knicks have a 21 year old white PG prospect that just won the Euroleague's Rising Star award.

[robillionaire]

Quentin Grimes appeared to be a part of Thibs favored group of players prior to going down with injury. And we're talking about a 25th overall pick not a lottery pick.

See, when you say stuff like this, it makes me doubt the rest of your evaluations, because this is an obvious retcon

Grimes didn't get minutes until injuries forced Thibs to play him, and only after playing well and injuries continuing to pile up did he continue to get minutes

If anything, this is an indication that Thibs is clueless, because he couldn't recognize Grimes' value in practice, because there's no way that Grimes wouldn't have been good if he had gotten minutes from the start.

I can’t say I agree and here is my rationale. Thibs was not “forced” to play Grimes and if anything was forced of Thibs last year it was probably having to start the vets that the org brought in for 10-20 million a season that summer. He did not ever have to play Grimes. Look at the shortage of guards we had late in the season. But instead of being forced to play McBride he still only played some spot minutes off ball mostly in garbage time and Burks still played heavy minutes at PG even when the season was over. Last year instead of being forced to play Toppin he just played more Taj Gibson. He could have easily chosen the same treatment with Grimes and just rode the vets harder. So I do think he saw something he liked with grimes either in practice or in games that he also saw in rookie IQ, when he could have given them the rookie Toppin and McBride treatment. And because of the politics of basketball and coming off a success last season he had to wait until the team cooled off from their hot start to justify cutting minutes from vets and when the injuries happened he was out there playing 39 minutes as early as game 27. Do people really think they signed Kemba, Rose, Burks, and Fournier just to let Thibs bench/DNP them in game 1 for a late first round draft pick? It’s just not a realistic expectation given the situation Imo

[Hes_On_Fire]

Thibodeau does not like playing young players because he demands perfection - specifically on defense. Young guys aren't perfect and, thus, do not get developed by Thibodeau properly. It is well known that Thibodeau prefers veterans, otherwise we wouldn't have seen Fournier, Burks, Taj, etc. get playing time the way they did. Or bringing back Noel, Rose and the rest on long term deals on a team that was mediocre at best.

[robillionaire]

As far as Jokubaitis is concerned whenever he does come over he will have been playing professionally for a couple years in a top basketball league and won’t be nearly as raw as a college rookie

[Sark]

I wouldn’t mind stashing him another year for development until the Knicks figure out how to clear out some of the clutter on the roster

When have the Knicks not had clutter on the roster? Every off-season we load up with new clutter, so we can sell shiney new objects to the fans.

[cgmw]

I wouldn’t mind stashing him another year for development until the Knicks figure out how to clear out some of the clutter on the roster

When have the Knicks not had clutter on the roster? Every off-season we load up with new clutter, so we can sell shiney new objects to the fans.

Preach.

This should be the refrain on every sports radio and Knicks podcast — STOP with the shiny new things and just develop from within.

The sad truth is Knicks FO seed Jokubaitis as a trade chip, not a future PG.

[robillionaire]

I wouldn’t mind stashing him another year for development until the Knicks figure out how to clear out some of the clutter on the roster

When have the Knicks not had clutter on the roster? Every off-season we load up with new clutter, so we can sell shiney new objects to the fans.

In recent memory, the summer where they missed out on KD and the summer after that when most the 1 year deals expired