OT: NFL 23-24 Season thread 2

[DOT]

Read on Twitter

[MrDollarBills]

Jesus christ this thread took a turn lol

Me personally, I have no evidence that Mara is a racist. I think he's an ass hole who hires his relatives for jobs that they aren't qualified for and a cheapskate. I don't like John, but not because i think he's some racist prick. I hope he isn't, i don't know him.

I also think that it does suck that the Giants have yet to hire a Black or Brown head coach. But if Mara was racist or was simple minded enough to let skin color impact his hiring decisions, i don't think Jerry Reese would have ever been given an opportunity. That's not evidence either way, but it is something i as a Black fan of the NYG that I keep in mind.

Regarding Schoen...he should be allowed to hire who he feels is most qualified for the job and he had that rapport with Daboll. I don't want Mara dictating coaching hires, dude just needs to sign checks and keep his ass quiet. Let the football people do the work.

I have issues with the Rooney rule. I find it honestly insulting that the NFL is so ass backwards. If i was a coaching candidate i would be very nervous that the only reason a team is interviewing me is to fulfill a stipulation. Who wants to be treated like Brian Flores was when John Elway showed up drunk to his interview because he wasn't even taking it serious? That was absolutely vile. Interview Black coaches because of their merit and not to keep NFL HR off your asses.

But it's there for a reason, and what happened to Flores is the reason why. A lot of these dudes in the NFL are pieces of garbage.

[j4remi]

Read on Twitter

[DaGawd]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=oVwClrBc20Ekr_aoPw2DSg

From the limited amount of knowledge I have, this would feel the same to me as when y'all drafted Jones in 2019.

Have to disagree here. DJ had 59.9% completion percentage in college with 52 TD and 29 interceptions and a QB rating of 123.

JJ has an average completion percentage of 67.6% with 49 TDs against 11 Interceptions and an average rating of 160.

They were nothing alike as prospects. Jones really didn’t show much improvement in his tenure at Duke. JJ has shown a lot on an undefeated team and has thrived under pressure and just turned 21 2 months ago.

asked one of my boys whose a die hard michigan fan (packers fan also) his honest opinion about mccarthy and he believes the kid has superstar potential and his floor is solid starter. pretty much sold me on the kid being a home run pick if the giants are lucky enough to draft him

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

Ok, there you go. I was getting worried about yall for a minute there not gonna lie

[MrDollarBills]

From the limited amount of knowledge I have, this would feel the same to me as when y'all drafted Jones in 2019.

Have to disagree here. DJ had 59.9% completion percentage in college with 52 TD and 29 interceptions and a QB rating of 123.

JJ has an average completion percentage of 67.6% with 49 TDs against 11 Interceptions and an average rating of 160.

They were nothing alike as prospects. Jones really didn’t show much improvement in his tenure at Duke. JJ has shown a lot on an undefeated team and has thrived under pressure and just turned 21 2 months ago.

asked one of my boys whose a die hard michigan fan (packers fan also his honest opinion about mccarthy and he believes the kid has superstar potential and his floor is solid starter. pretty much sold me on the kid being a home run pick if the giants are lucky enough to draft him

I'm having a hard time with this. I'm not even remotely familiar with this kid's game so i can't talk like i know how he'll turn out. But i just feel anxious about not taking the best player available at 6. Gettleman PTSD is real

[DOT]

Have to disagree here. DJ had 59.9% completion percentage in college with 52 TD and 29 interceptions and a QB rating of 123.

JJ has an average completion percentage of 67.6% with 49 TDs against 11 Interceptions and an average rating of 160.

They were nothing alike as prospects. Jones really didn’t show much improvement in his tenure at Duke. JJ has shown a lot on an undefeated team and has thrived under pressure and just turned 21 2 months ago.

asked one of my boys whose a die hard michigan fan (packers fan also his honest opinion about mccarthy and he believes the kid has superstar potential and his floor is solid starter. pretty much sold me on the kid being a home run pick if the giants are lucky enough to draft him

I'm having a hard time with this. I'm not even remotely familiar with this kid's game so i can't talk like i know how he'll turn out. But i just feel anxious about not taking the best player available at 6. Gettleman PTSD is real

I feel like I have to clarify again, I wasn't saying him and Jones were alike as prospects, just that the comparison is I wouldn't take them at 6 just because I need a QB

I think this guy is pretty fair with his evaluations, he has McCarthy with a late 1st, early 2nd grade with his pro comp being "an actual ball of clay"

Watch on YouTube

Personally, I just don't think you guys have the offensive help/organizational stability to develop him. However, if you do draft him, I'd still start Jones to let McCarthy sit for the whole year and just commit to that. But I do recognize that if you guys don't do good, that'll put Daboll on the hot seat, and the last resort of a coach on the hot seat is to start a rookie QB to just throw sh*t at the wall. And then if you still suck and Daboll gets fired at the end of the year, then you're gonna hire a coach around McCarthy or else sunk cost fallacy

Plus like, say you draft Odunze at 6 and still suck, that means next year when you go into the draft you'll have a great young WR already on the roster as well as being clear of Jones' cap to put pieces around a potential QB to ease the transition, and you'll have a new coach who can pick who he wants.

[Starksfor3yes]

Steelers giving up nothing for Fields, remember the talk that he was going to fetch a first rounder? If that's the market for Fields, then the Jets might as well cut Zach.

[Dave_R]

@ Ghetto Gospel

Please keep in mind the words of MLK, one of our greatest leaders, who said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will NOT BE JUDGED BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN but by the content of their character." https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm.

Clearly, Dr. King believed (as we all should) that it's wrong to prefer one candidate over another due to, e.g., skin color. Thus, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a black candidate simply because they are black. Likewise, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a white candidate simply because they are white. Personally, I believe in systems based on merit, not skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

[DOT]

@ Ghetto Gospel

Please keep in mind the words of MLK, one of our greatest leaders, who said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will NOT BE JUDGED BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN but by the content of their character." https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm.

Clearly, Dr. King believed (as we all should) that it's wrong to prefer one candidate over another due to, e.g., skin color. Thus, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a black candidate simply because they are black. Likewise, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a white candidate simply because they are white. Personally, I believe in systems based on merit, not skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

Y'all seriously need to read more than just that one sentence

MLK was speaking of a dream. A potential future which was not realized wherein things like Affirmative Action and the Rooney rule would not be necessary. He did not say that in order to reach this future we should do nothing

Man was a socialist. In that very same speech you quote he railed against the US for doing nothing after freeing the slaves, for not giving them the ability to make themselves equal. Go look at his 1967 interview with NBC where he says the idea of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is ridiculous when not everyone is born with the same benefits

He was speaking of an ideal world. But he knew we very much did not live in an ideal world, and we still don't

You can believe in systems based on merit, but those systems do not exist. If left to their own devices, systems would discriminate. It is an unfortunate reality, but that is the case.

[Dave_R]

I do believe in systems based on merit. Do you believe NBA players are selected based on merit?

[Dave_R]

Asians comprise roughly 7% of the U.S. population. https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2023/05/08/asian-american-identity-appendix-demographic-profile-of-asian-american-adults. If my memory serves me correctly, the U.S. has NEVER had an Asian president, vice president, or supreme court justice. Is this racist simply because it has never happened? Does there need to be some non-innocent state of mind/motive to elevate this fact to racism?

[DOT]

Does there need to be some non-innocent state of mind/motive to elevate this fact to racism?

Nope

Because racism is a subconscious bias. You can be racist without trying to be, that's the whole point

But this is off topic. If you wish to discuss racism against Asian Americans in US politics, you're free to go to the Current Affairs thread to do so.

[Ghetto Gospel]

@ Ghetto Gospel

Please keep in mind the words of MLK, one of our greatest leaders, who said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will NOT BE JUDGED BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN but by the content of their character." https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm.

Clearly, Dr. King believed (as we all should) that it's wrong to prefer one candidate over another due to, e.g., skin color. Thus, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a black candidate simply because they are black. Likewise, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a white candidate simply because they are white. Personally, I believe in systems based on merit, not skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

i am not asking for preferential treatment for black HCs or black QBs. i'm asking for equal opportunity.

historically and currently, black HC candidates have not been given the same opportunities as their white counterparts across the NFL. i do believe that things should be based off of merit, but the reality is they currently are not

[DOT]

Watch on YouTube

[MrDollarBills]

@ Ghetto Gospel

Please keep in mind the words of MLK, one of our greatest leaders, who said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will NOT BE JUDGED BY THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN but by the content of their character." https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm.

Clearly, Dr. King believed (as we all should) that it's wrong to prefer one candidate over another due to, e.g., skin color. Thus, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a black candidate simply because they are black. Likewise, I don't think Dr. King would want preferential consideration/treatment be given to a white candidate simply because they are white. Personally, I believe in systems based on merit, not skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

i am not asking for preferential treatment for black HCs or black QBs. i'm asking for equal opportunity.

historically and currently, black HC candidates have not been given the same opportunities as their white counterparts across the NFL. i do believe that things should be based off of merit, but the reality is they currently are not

The Rooney rule was established in the 00s because there was factual evidence that Black coaches, despite winning a higher % of games, were less likely to be hired and more likely to be fired quickly than their white counterparts. I absolutely despise Tony Dungy, but the way he got fired from Tampa Bay was crazy.

It's also crazy how some folks scream about meritocracy when yet the evidence suggests that coaching hiring in the NFL is anything but.

The fact that one of the league's owners, a white man, led a committee to establish a rule that ensured minority candidates get at least an opportunity to interview, speaks for itself. If Dan Rooney had enough self awareness to realize that the situation was so unfair that teams had to be forced to interview non white candidates, what's everyone else's excuse?

[MrDollarBills]

Watch on YouTube

Giants need Rome Odunze.

We won championships with our #1 receiver being big (Plaxico and Hakeem Nicks).

Time to get back to NYG basics, and i feel like this pick along with the moves made in the trenches is a signal that we're headed back in that direction

[DOT]

Giants need Rome Odunze.

We won championships with our #1 receiver being big (Plaxico and Hakeem Nicks).

Time to get back to NYG basics, and i feel like this pick along with the moves made in the trenches is a signal that we're headed back in that direction

I'm kinda torn because like, man I really want Brian Thomas Jr at 17

I know we have Gabe Davis and he plays that role of a big deep threat, but he doesn't have that top-end speed to burn guys deep, which is something we had 2 years ago with Zay Jones but didn't this past year with Zay injured/arrested/sucking

But I also know that it makes more sense to draft for future needs as well, like the only upgrade at iOL was Morse who's good but him and Scherff are both old, and Davon Hamilton and Arik Armstead are good iDL guys but they have injury concerns, plus our CB room is kinda shaky as well with Tyson Campbell having a down year last year and Ronald Darby being okay but older and a clear stopgap

Letting Ridley walk was definitely the right move, and we do have a 2nd rounder because of it

Frankly unless a top 10 caliber guy falls to 17, I think we should be trading back and just drafting BPA. No huge holes on the roster for the immediate future, but especially with Trevor's extension coming up, we're gonna need to have options at a lot of positions.

[MrDollarBills]

Giants need Rome Odunze.

We won championships with our #1 receiver being big (Plaxico and Hakeem Nicks).

Time to get back to NYG basics, and i feel like this pick along with the moves made in the trenches is a signal that we're headed back in that direction

I'm kinda torn because like, man I really want Brian Thomas Jr at 17

I know we have Gabe Davis and he plays that role of a big deep threat, but he doesn't have that top-end speed to burn guys deep, which is something we had 2 years ago with Zay Jones but didn't this past year with Zay injured/arrested/sucking

But I also know that it makes more sense to draft for future needs as well, like the only upgrade at iOL was Morse who's good but him and Scherff are both old, and Davon Hamilton and Arik Armstead are good iDL guys but they have injury concerns, plus our CB room is kinda shaky as well with Tyson Campbell having a down year last year and Ronald Darby being okay but older and a clear stopgap

Letting Ridley walk was definitely the right move, and we do have a 2nd rounder because of it

Frankly unless a top 10 caliber guy falls to 17, I think we should be trading back and just drafting BPA. No huge holes on the roster for the immediate future, but especially with Trevor's extension coming up, we're gonna need to have options at a lot of positions.

Any WRs with Rd 2 grades that catch your attention?

[TerrenceClarke]

Watch on YouTube

Giants need Rome Odunze.

We won championships with our #1 receiver being big (Plaxico and Hakeem Nicks).

Time to get back to NYG basics, and i feel like this pick along with the moves made in the trenches is a signal that we're headed back in that direction

We also won with a QB who was fearless and could process the field quickly to get them the ball....