Immanuel Quickley Appreciation Thread

[bbking]

For as lucky as we were stealing Brunson from the Mavs because of Doncic/Brunson making too much playing at the same position, we fell victim to the same dilemma. IQ is so quick and efficient and can create, shoot and defend, such a talent is way too hard to come by. He is going to shine as a starter in Toronto with 20/5/5 stats and become a borderline all-star right away. Leon Rose made a huge mistake letting IQ go, just because he was asking Brunson's money, which we know now was a steal. We should have given Grime/picks for OG, which should satisfy Masai and the fanbase, especially Toronto was cornered in a bad situation. OG is what we need, but trading IQ for him plus RJ and a pick was a terrible deal. Big big mistake, sad sad trade!

[robillionaire]

For as lucky as we were stealing Brunson from the Mavs because of Doncic/Brunson making too much playing at the same position, we fell victim to the same dilemma. IQ is so quick and efficient and can create, shoot and defend, such a talent is way too hard to come by. He is going to shine as a starter in Toronto with 20/5/5 stats and become a borderline all-star right away. Leon Rose made a huge mistake letting IQ go, just because he was asking Brunson's money, which we know now was a steal. We should have given Grime/picks for OG, which should satisfy Masai and the fanbase, especially Toronto was cornered in a bad situation. OG is what we need, but trading IQ for him plus RJ and a pick was a terrible deal. Big big mistake, sad sad trade!

Counterpoint, the difference in your analogy is that the Mavs lost Brunson for nothing. We actually got decent value back for IQ by getting a coveted defender OG in the move. Also Brunson killed it in the playoffs for Dallas while IQ had a difficult time last year. Furthermore I’m glad we still have all our picks.

[BKlutch]

For as lucky as we were stealing Brunson from the Mavs because of Doncic/Brunson making too much playing at the same position, we fell victim to the same dilemma. IQ is so quick and efficient and can create, shoot and defend, such a talent is way too hard to come by. He is going to shine as a starter in Toronto with 20/5/5 stats and become a borderline all-star right away. Leon Rose made a huge mistake letting IQ go, just because he was asking Brunson's money, which we know now was a steal. We should have given Grime/picks for OG, which should satisfy Masai and the fanbase, especially Toronto was cornered in a bad situation. OG is what we need, but trading IQ for him plus RJ and a pick was a terrible deal. Big big mistake, sad sad trade!

No, no, and no. Not comparable. Open your eyes and look at the players.

[Chanel Bomber]

I'll miss watching IQ play for the Knicks.

He brought joy, flair and artistry to Knicks games.

Ultimately, I wish we had traded some more draft assets and Fournier along with RJ and kept IQ but maybe the Raptors were not interested in a draft-centric package and IQ was a non-negotiable piece.

Anyway, I hope he becomes a star in Toronto but the trade still pans out for us with OG. I think he has the potential to.

Good luck in Toronto.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I'll miss watching IQ play for the Knicks.

He brought joy, flair and artistry to Knicks games.

Ultimately, I wish we had traded some more draft assets and Fournier along with RJ and kept IQ but maybe the Raptors were not interested in a draft-centric package and IQ was a non-negotiable piece.

Anyway, I hope he becomes a star in Toronto but the trade still pans out for us with OG. I think he has the potential to.

Good luck in Toronto.

I agree with everything but, once they're gone, IDGAF what they do on other teams!! Especially Toronto!! I want RJ to be the player you hated all these years! I want IQ to be nothing more than a 6MOY player he was here. I want Precious/OG to become legends in NYC!! LFGK!!!

Best of luck to them both.

[duetta]

Quick was apparently asking for a contract in the 5-year / $135m range (which is what the guy in San Antonio got). Management never saw him as deserving that kind of deal - for whatever reasons.

If it were me, I would have let him play out the year in NY as a starter and see if he could make his case for that kind of valuation, but management evidently had a particular dollar amount in mind for him and they did not see eye-to-eye. Plus the fact that we all know that OG is the kind of player that we need.

Quick has real upside and the only thing in the way of that valuation is some demonstration of an ability to run an offense. It's not like Brunson is an ideal distributor at the point, so there should be a wide market for him - but I also assume that Masai has no intention of letting him go. He will be given the shot to run the point in Toronto and earn his money.

[rajajackal]

goodnight sweet prince. favorite knick in the last decade

[NYKinMIA]

did anyone not like this kid? he will be missed

[KnicksGadfly]

From the Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/5171106/2023/12/31/immanuel-quickley-raptors-knicks-trade-rj-barrett/

Strengths

...I disagree with the public framing of this move as “The OG Anunoby Trade.” If we have to center the deal on one player, I think Quickley should be that guy. To me, it’s more accurate to call this “The Immanuel Quickley Trade” instead. He is the highest-upside player in the deal.

...

On top of that, we have evidence of Quickley’s capability in a starting role. Last season, Quickley started 21 games, either in place of Jalen Brunson as the primary point guard or next to him while replacing the injured Barrett. The results were stellar: In those 21 games, Quickley averaged 22.6 points, 5.4 rebounds and 5.1 assists per game on 46.9 percent shooting from the field, 40.1 percent from 3 and 84.6 percent from the line in 38 minutes per game. All of those numbers exceeded his overall per-minute production. This season, he’s upped his per-minute production to something commensurate with those starter numbers, averaging 22.5 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists per 36 minutes while shooting 45.4 percent from the field, 39.5 percent from 3 and 87.2 percent from the line.

...

He’s a legitimate three-level scorer, as he was one of only 10 guards last season to make at least 65 percent at the rim, 45 percent from midrange, and 36 percent from 3, according to Cleaning The Glass. Six of the other nine players were all-stars, and the other three were much lower usage players (Oklahoma City Thunder reserve Isaiah Joe, then-Washington Wizards point guard Monté Morris and Boston’s Derrick White – a potential 2024 All-Star). This season, even with a drop off in rim pressure and efficiency, Quickley remains one of only 14 guards to be making at least 57 percent at the rim, 45 percent from the midrange and 37 percent from 3. All told, Quickley has posted slightly above-average efficiency on significant volume in the last two seasons, at just 23 and 24 years old.

Quickley’s shot-making versatility is how he generates separation to create scoring opportunities. Quickley is a constant threat to pull up and shoot, which affects how defenders play him, particularly in ball-screen situations. There isn’t a single ideal strategy to guard him, especially if opponents don’t have the right personnel. Because of that, Quickley has rated as an outstanding pick-and-roll scorer in each of last two years.

...

Quickley’s dual capability as an on- and off-ball player makes him the exact fit for the kind of guard needed next to Barnes, He’s a terrific scorer, a legitimate shooter who can space the floor and someone with defensive chops to cover both backcourt positions. With Barnes shifting into more of a help defense role akin to an NFL free safety, Quickley will be asked to play more on the ball defensively, where he must fight over the top of screens and disrupt opponents at the point of attack. He’s certainly capable of that, and he’s also been a sharp and timely off-ball defender who rotates well and makes his length felt on the opposite side. I don’t think Quickley’s quite the All-Defense-level player Anonoby is, but he’s a good defender.

Weaknesses

There are times Quickley can get sped up in those situations, especially when forced to be a passer instead of a scorer. While Quickley isn’t a bad playmaker for his teammates and minimizes turnovers at an elite level by not compounding over-drives with bad decisions, he tends to be better at finding rolls or cutters than making kickout passes to shooters. He has only assisted on 26 3-pointers in 30 games so far this season, a low number for a player now stepping into a starting point guard role. Most of those assists come after he’s picked up the ball and exhausted other options.

Still, this is an area Quickley can legitimately improve. He possesses a 6-foot-8 wingspan that could be used more effectively to open up passing angles if he can get more comfortable making them off a live dribble. For now, skip passes, and others of that ilk, are few and far between. But if Quickley can add those to his bag, he would become even more lethal as a scorer because defenders would hesitate a split second longer to tag his rollers.

...

My only remaining questions surround Quickley’s consistency in the playoffs. Can he make the same level of impact when defenses ratchet up and he’s facing longer, tougher on-ball threats? His 13 career playoff games thus far have been a struggle; his effective field goal percentage in that span is below 40 percent. My guess is his shot will come around. but his passing and playmaking must improve to perform better in postseason settings.

I think Vecenie summed it up well. I still think the team effed it up a bit by not being willing to try Brunson and Quickley. They spent a lot of time giving RJ opportunities that Quickley didn't get but Quickley definitely deserved more...especially if your big plan at backup power forward was Josh Hart. Even if Quickley is gone, the only thing it could have done was raise Quickley's value for a trade and let us see if those gaudy Brunson-IQ numbers were real.

I also think some guys are trying to justify the trade by saying Quickley sucked or was not as good as you think or easily replaceable or whatever, but the truth is, he was really good. DDV isn't on his level. Hart isn't on his level. He has legitimate ability to play with the stars in this league, and that type of player is not easy to find. Think about almost any superstar and Quickley can fit next to them because they never need to cover for him on defense and he can stretch the floor and he's not the guy who is just gonna sulk when he doesn't get the ball.

I think IQ was gone regardless. He's not a CAA guy and Thibs is a bit too conservative to move past what he thinks is right. There's a part of me that was really tempted to blame RJ, but I think if RJ had continued to ball out, they would have just traded Quickley with picks and Fournier and whatnot, moved RJ to the 2, and then had brought in OG, who apparently might even give us a discount (which no one should be grateful for...this is just Leon Rose just paying us back for his big eff-up on draft day).

I think in the end, the ball is in Rose's court. It's time to deliver the superstar. No, not Donovan Mitchell. We mean a real superstar. This is a move you make when you say, damn it, it's the time to contend.

[Jalen Bluntson]

From the Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/5171106/2023/12/31/immanuel-quickley-raptors-knicks-trade-rj-barrett/

Strengths

...I disagree with the public framing of this move as “The OG Anunoby Trade.” If we have to center the deal on one player, I think Quickley should be that guy. To me, it’s more accurate to call this “The Immanuel Quickley Trade” instead. He is the highest-upside player in the deal.

...

On top of that, we have evidence of Quickley’s capability in a starting role. Last season, Quickley started 21 games, either in place of Jalen Brunson as the primary point guard or next to him while replacing the injured Barrett. The results were stellar: In those 21 games, Quickley averaged 22.6 points, 5.4 rebounds and 5.1 assists per game on 46.9 percent shooting from the field, 40.1 percent from 3 and 84.6 percent from the line in 38 minutes per game. All of those numbers exceeded his overall per-minute production. This season, he’s upped his per-minute production to something commensurate with those starter numbers, averaging 22.5 points, 3.8 rebounds and 3.7 assists per 36 minutes while shooting 45.4 percent from the field, 39.5 percent from 3 and 87.2 percent from the line.

...

He’s a legitimate three-level scorer, as he was one of only 10 guards last season to make at least 65 percent at the rim, 45 percent from midrange, and 36 percent from 3, according to Cleaning The Glass. Six of the other nine players were all-stars, and the other three were much lower usage players (Oklahoma City Thunder reserve Isaiah Joe, then-Washington Wizards point guard Monté Morris and Boston’s Derrick White – a potential 2024 All-Star). This season, even with a drop off in rim pressure and efficiency, Quickley remains one of only 14 guards to be making at least 57 percent at the rim, 45 percent from the midrange and 37 percent from 3. All told, Quickley has posted slightly above-average efficiency on significant volume in the last two seasons, at just 23 and 24 years old.

Quickley’s shot-making versatility is how he generates separation to create scoring opportunities. Quickley is a constant threat to pull up and shoot, which affects how defenders play him, particularly in ball-screen situations. There isn’t a single ideal strategy to guard him, especially if opponents don’t have the right personnel. Because of that, Quickley has rated as an outstanding pick-and-roll scorer in each of last two years.

...

Quickley’s dual capability as an on- and off-ball player makes him the exact fit for the kind of guard needed next to Barnes, He’s a terrific scorer, a legitimate shooter who can space the floor and someone with defensive chops to cover both backcourt positions. With Barnes shifting into more of a help defense role akin to an NFL free safety, Quickley will be asked to play more on the ball defensively, where he must fight over the top of screens and disrupt opponents at the point of attack. He’s certainly capable of that, and he’s also been a sharp and timely off-ball defender who rotates well and makes his length felt on the opposite side. I don’t think Quickley’s quite the All-Defense-level player Anonoby is, but he’s a good defender.

Weaknesses

There are times Quickley can get sped up in those situations, especially when forced to be a passer instead of a scorer. While Quickley isn’t a bad playmaker for his teammates and minimizes turnovers at an elite level by not compounding over-drives with bad decisions, he tends to be better at finding rolls or cutters than making kickout passes to shooters. He has only assisted on 26 3-pointers in 30 games so far this season, a low number for a player now stepping into a starting point guard role. Most of those assists come after he’s picked up the ball and exhausted other options.

Still, this is an area Quickley can legitimately improve. He possesses a 6-foot-8 wingspan that could be used more effectively to open up passing angles if he can get more comfortable making them off a live dribble. For now, skip passes, and others of that ilk, are few and far between. But if Quickley can add those to his bag, he would become even more lethal as a scorer because defenders would hesitate a split second longer to tag his rollers.

...

My only remaining questions surround Quickley’s consistency in the playoffs. Can he make the same level of impact when defenses ratchet up and he’s facing longer, tougher on-ball threats? His 13 career playoff games thus far have been a struggle; his effective field goal percentage in that span is below 40 percent. My guess is his shot will come around. but his passing and playmaking must improve to perform better in postseason settings.

I think Vecenie summed it up well. I still think the team effed it up a bit by not being willing to try Brunson and Quickley. They spent a lot of time giving RJ opportunities that Quickley didn't get but Quickley definitely deserved more...especially if your big plan at backup power forward was Josh Hart. Even if Quickley is gone, the only thing it could have done was raise Quickley's value for a trade and let us see if those gaudy Brunson-IQ numbers were real.

I also think some guys are trying to justify the trade by saying Quickley sucked or was not as good as you think or easily replaceable or whatever, but the truth is, he was really good. DDV isn't on his level. Hart isn't on his level. He has legitimate ability to play with the stars in this league, and that type of player is not easy to find. Think about almost any superstar and Quickley can fit next to them because they never need to cover for him on defense and he can stretch the floor and he's not the guy who is just gonna sulk when he doesn't get the ball.

I think IQ was gone regardless. He's not a CAA guy and Thibs is a bit too conservative to move past what he thinks is right. There's a part of me that was really tempted to blame RJ, but I think if RJ had continued to ball out, they would have just traded Quickley with picks and Fournier and whatnot, moved RJ to the 2, and then had brought in OG, who apparently might even give us a discount (which no one should be grateful for...this is just Leon Rose just paying us back for his big eff-up on draft day).

I think in the end, the ball is in Rose's court. It's time to deliver the superstar. No, not Donovan Mitchell. We mean a real superstar. This is a move you make when you say, damn it, it's the time to contend.

I hate losing IQ. I agree we should have started him for a while to see what we have. I really hope he doesn't turn into a star now though. It would kill me. I love OG as well so, whatever happens, we got a good player in return. I'm over it.

[TrueWarrior]

Quickley is not going to become a good player. He already is a good player giving you an efficient 15/3/3 with good defense. Not a leap of faith at all to think he can be a 20/5/5 guy with more minutes and touches.

I wanted to keep Quick to pair with OG, but we’re obviously building around Brunson now so we figured Quickley is too small to be a full time long term answer as a starting SG. I understand that but we should have given it a longer look still for sure.

It’s also not out of the question to believe that Quickley could end up being better than Brunson overall. We chose Brunson over Quick, Randle over Obi, and OG over RJ (if we’re smart we will also choose Hartenstein over Mitch). So far Randle has clearly been better than Obi, but I dont like trading players away without seeing what they can do in extended minutes first. It would be nice to have a good defensive PG like Quickley at the 1 and not have to cover for him like we do with Brunson, but Brunson is so good on offense that hes worth it.

Anyway, Quick was a great draft pick and fun to watch. Raps fans will love him. On to the next chapter.

[cgmw]

Thibs robotic schemes called for a 'Derrick-Rose lite' off the bench, which is all IQ was ever going to be here. I'm happy for him getting a real opportunity outside of MSG, where (barring Brunson injury) he was NEVER going to meet whatever potential he has.

To me, the real "what if" question on Quickley is what if the Knicks weren't toxic nepotists? Because a Haliburton-Quickley backcourt could have been something special.

[KnicksGadfly]

Thibs robotic schemes called for a 'Derrick-Rose lite' off the bench, which is all IQ was ever going to be here. I'm happy for him getting a real opportunity outside of MSG, where (barring Brunson injury) he was NEVER going to meet whatever potential he has.

To me, the real "what if" question on Quickley is what if the Knicks weren't toxic nepotists? Because a Haliburton-Quickley backcourt could have been something special.

Yah, that's definitely the archetype. I remember when I was hearing Thibs telling IQ he was gonna play a Lou Williams role in this league. Thank God IQ didn't listen.

But I don't mind. Thibs is gonna get himself fired sooner or later if he doesn't change.

[Stannis]

What will his contract look like?

[NY2k1]

I like OG as a player, but the Knicks trading IQ will go down as one of the biggest blunders they've ever made. Hopefully, it won't end up mattering in the long-term.

[robillionaire]

I like OG as a player, but the Knicks trading IQ will go down as one of the biggest blunders they've ever made. Hopefully, it won't end up mattering in the long-term.

I’m a big fan of IQ but by my estimate in order for it to be a blunder he will have to at the very least become a borderline all star player. If he’s just an ok PG or it looks like Brunson is always gonna be way better, I think we will be good. If it turns out he can’t even hold down a starting job, it’s a steal for us

[KnicksGadfly]

I like OG as a player, but the Knicks trading IQ will go down as one of the biggest blunders they've ever made. Hopefully, it won't end up mattering in the long-term.

I’m a big fan of IQ but by my estimate in order for it to be a blunder he will have to at the very least become a borderline all star player. If he’s just an ok PG or it looks like Brunson is always gonna be way better, I think we will be good. If it turns out he can’t even hold down a starting job, it’s a steal for us

Yea, I'm not sure it'll be a blunder, because even if he becomes an all star, the Knicks would have never given him that opportunity. Sitting behind Brunson the whole time, it wouldn't have worked out that way. He might become a star on the Raptors, but wouldn't have happened here. There's also one other scenario where IQ becomes a really good Kyle Lowry/Jrue Holiday type, which I've seen him as.

The bigger blunder is in not trying and not seeing if he could have worked with Brunson. At that point, if IQ explodes, you still trade him for more, or figure something else out. Or he doesn't explode, and you've confirmed he's completely a PG with more combo guard tendencies...basically, what we traded him as.

[robillionaire]

I like OG as a player, but the Knicks trading IQ will go down as one of the biggest blunders they've ever made. Hopefully, it won't end up mattering in the long-term.

I’m a big fan of IQ but by my estimate in order for it to be a blunder he will have to at the very least become a borderline all star player. If he’s just an ok PG or it looks like Brunson is always gonna be way better, I think we will be good. If it turns out he can’t even hold down a starting job, it’s a steal for us

Yea, I'm not sure it'll be a blunder, because even if he becomes an all star, the Knicks would have never given him that opportunity. Sitting behind Brunson the whole time, it wouldn't have worked out that way. He might become a star on the Raptors, but wouldn't have happened here.

This is also true. But it’ll just feel worse. At the end of the day we did what had to be done regardless of how he plays

I feel that I’ve seen enough of him playing off ball with Brunson to know it still wouldn’t have been ideal. He needed his shot at starting PG

[Nazrmohamed]

For as lucky as we were stealing Brunson from the Mavs because of Doncic/Brunson making too much playing at the same position, we fell victim to the same dilemma. IQ is so quick and efficient and can create, shoot and defend, such a talent is way too hard to come by. He is going to shine as a starter in Toronto with 20/5/5 stats and become a borderline all-star right away. Leon Rose made a huge mistake letting IQ go, just because he was asking Brunson's money, which we know now was a steal. We should have given Grime/picks for OG, which should satisfy Masai and the fanbase, especially Toronto was cornered in a bad situation. OG is what we need, but trading IQ for him plus RJ and a pick was a terrible deal. Big big mistake, sad sad trade!

It's hard to say cuz we don't truly know if IQ can run the PG position full time. I was a huge fan of IQ and often referenced our best lineups, record when he started and basically all things IQ starting and it was promising, however in those moments he was often coming in as a SG. That's said he did play allot of minutes at backup PG but UT remains to be seen if he can truly, while scouted and being responsible for the teams offensive sets, run a tight offense from the PG position. The good thing is he may not have to. It seems the Raptors wanna put the ball in Barnes hands as much as possible and run a system not overly reliant on a PG to generate easy offense for all but in this case benefit from an offense where multiple people can create. But you make a great point even IF he was always destined to be a combo guard.

I mean consider this. What if you pulled that trade with RJ alone and then just gave up a better pick. Like instead of 31 you're sending pick 25. Idk, maybe fans would be pissed off about the pick in that scenario but we would keep IQ. I think in that case IQs days would still be numbered as I think he'd become a chip in the next trade but assuming he stayed I don't see why he could just play SG next to OG. He's a solid defender and statistically we played our best ball with Brunson and IQ in the backcourt. But now you have a se ondary balll handler in there. I'm gonna miss him. I think writing was on the wall the second he came back without an extension and we signed DDV. My thing is you hold your ground on the difference between 18-25 but then give Hart close to 20 and DVC 10. So to me the money is just about ideals and setting some precedent. I get it, precedents matter. We spend two decades giving out albatross deals. Hell, RJs deal I just read was looked at as toxic by some rival GMs and coaches. I think the Raptors were actually happier about getting IQ than RJ, but RJ became sortve a throw-in that they can sell to thier Canadian fan base.

[duetta]

Knicks apparently offered Quick to Boston this summer in exchange for Marcus Smart.

https://dailyknicks.com/posts/grizzlies-saved-knicks-fans-more-painful-immanuel-quickley-trade