OG Anunoby Traded to Knicks, Part 2

[3toheadmelo]

leon to masai

[FrozenEnvelope]

I was wrong about OG.

[KnicksGadfly]

After evaluating the OG trade and other Knicks moves in the past few years it begs the question:

Donnie Walsh or Leon Rose?

Comparing Walsh's three years in NY with Rose's current Knicks tenure which one is better?

If I had to give my opinion, Rose over Walsh. Donnie's time here was mediocre. He got absolutely nothing in return for Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and David Lee. His draft picks were terrible outside of Gallo. The Amar'e signing became a failure. Although it was a Dolan decision, he agreed to deplete the Knicks roster of their depth in the Melo trade.

Rose on the other hand cleaned up the mess left behind by Mills, by getting rid of Elfrid Payton, Kevin Knox, RJ Barrett, Frank Ntlikina, and Allonzo Trier. And bringing in guys like OG, Brunson, Ihart, Josh Hart and Dante who've had an immediate impact on this team.

Yea, I think Rose is better. Not sure we can blame Walsh for Melo, but it is notable that Rose was able to avoid Donnie's mistake (or maybe Dolan stopped interfering) with Donovan, stick to his price, and sign an even better FA. Later, we were able to use those assets when their value had risen (primarily Quickley), to get OG and leave hope for another guy. Like all GMs, though, some luck was involved. Not sure many people could have anticipated Brunson being this good and getting Mitchell would have stifled him. Cleveland had to step up and overpay. The Knicks were shopping Quickley for a first rounder a while back and no one bit. RJ Barrett being from Canada can't hurt.

At the same time, I think we need to judge Walsh for the process. His plan was to sign two maxes, and it felt sound. He got owned hard by Pat the Rat, and he refused to tank so we didn't get Steph, but his thinking on the whole felt sound. He probably was more of a breath of fresh air, compared to guys like Isiah. Dolan had some stink to him too.

[HopelessKnick]

After evaluating the OG trade and other Knicks moves in the past few years it begs the question:

Donnie Walsh or Leon Rose?

Comparing Walsh's three years in NY with Rose's current Knicks tenure which one is better?

If I had to give my opinion, Rose over Walsh. Donnie's time here was mediocre. He got absolutely nothing in return for Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford and David Lee. His draft picks were terrible outside of Gallo. The Amar'e signing became a failure. Although it was a Dolan decision, he agreed to deplete the Knicks roster of their depth in the Melo trade.

Rose on the other hand cleaned up the mess left behind by Mills, by getting rid of Elfrid Payton, Kevin Knox, RJ Barrett, Frank Ntlikina, and Allonzo Trier. And bringing in guys like OG, Brunson, Ihart, Josh Hart and Dante who've had an immediate impact on this team.

Yea, I think Rose is better. Not sure we can blame Walsh for Melo, but it is notable that Rose was able to avoid Donnie's mistake (or maybe Dolan stopped interfering) with Donovan, stick to his price, and sign an even better FA. Later, we were able to use those assets when their value had risen (primarily Quickley), to get OG and leave hope for another guy. Like all GMs, though, some luck was involved. Not sure many people could have anticipated Brunson being this good and getting Mitchell would have stifled him. Cleveland had to step up and overpay. The Knicks were shopping Quickley for a first rounder a while back and no one bit. RJ Barrett being from Canada can't hurt.

At the same time, I think we need to judge Walsh for the process. His plan was to sign two maxes, and it felt sound. He got owned hard by Pat the Rat, and he refused to tank so we didn't get Steph, but his thinking on the whole felt sound. He probably was more of a breath of fresh air, compared to guys like Isiah. Dolan had some stink to him too.

In all fairness to Walsh though...the Amar'e injury, even by Amar'e standards came way early. I remember back then Phoenix balking at giving him a 5 year contract because they were unsure whether his knee would hold up after 3 seasons. They didn't want to guarantee the contract for year 5 essentially. On the Knicks Amar'e was injured after like 40-something games. While he and Melo may have never been a good fit, I still think if he stayed healthy up to those 3 years we'd have a couple more deeper playoff runs to look back to. However one could counter with the argument that Amar's was always a very high risk signing....

[metafisical]

leon to masai

Lol, I don't know about robbed. Honestly, the Raptors were going to lose OG and Siakim in free agency anyway. The point was to try to get anything for them in their final year of contract. Heck, we lost FVV for nothing in the off-season.

That being said, I am glad the Knicks are doing well. I think the Knicks are good enough to make a lot of noise in the playoffs, but I hope there is one more move to go to the Finals.

[3toheadmelo]

leon to masai

Lol, I don't know about robbed. Honestly, the Raptors were going to lose OG and Siakim in free agency anyway. The point was to try to get anything for them in their final year of contract. Heck, we lost FVV for nothing in the off-season.

That being said, I am glad the Knicks are doing well. I think the Knicks are good enough to make a lot of noise in the playoffs, but I hope there is one more move to go to the Finals.

thanks for giving us og for the low!

[WaltFrazier]

I probably started 3 threads in recent years on the GB saying OG was the best defender in the league (and therefore one of the best players in the league) and every time there would be a pile on of posters trashing my Raptor homerism

now you all know

Yes... but... I don't think he has this same impact on every roster. It was almost a perfect fit given our needs. Whereas, he was kind of getting wasted with y'all.

I found it weird that Masai didn't make efforts to resolve the roster around OG and Barnes earlier. Or in any event two of OG, Barnes, and Siakam. Do you think it was untenable ie OG was leaving either way? It felt like the pieces were there to make a much better roster. Namely, I was pretty surprised Toronto didn't make a move for a better scoring lead guard earlier.

He slots in perfectly for what we need and it seems like that could have been reverse engineered in Toronto.

Yup that's a big fail by Masai

[Capn'O]

I probably started 3 threads in recent years on the GB saying OG was the best defender in the league (and therefore one of the best players in the league) and every time there would be a pile on of posters trashing my Raptor homerism

now you all know

Yes... but... I don't think he has this same impact on every roster. It was almost a perfect fit given our needs. Whereas, he was kind of getting wasted with y'all.

I found it weird that Masai didn't make efforts to resolve the roster around OG and Barnes earlier. Or in any event two of OG, Barnes, and Siakam. Do you think it was untenable ie OG was leaving either way? It felt like the pieces were there to make a much better roster. Namely, I was pretty surprised Toronto didn't make a move for a better scoring lead guard earlier.

He slots in perfectly for what we need and it seems like that could have been reverse engineered in Toronto.

Yup that's a big fail by Masai

I thought Lillard was going to end up there for sure this summer when the rumors started. It made too much sense. But maybe he would have legitimately held out there. Who knows.

It's a rough patch but Masai is too good of an executive to not land on his feet. Especially now that he's picked a direction.

[Juco24]

Went back through part I... some of you should be ashamed. Lol

[F N 11]

High Iq player

[HarthorneWingo]

leon to masai

Leon visiting Masai’s home …

[sortpar]

I too was dead wrong. Thought OG was overrated but fact is he's underrated.

During and when OG was being traded to the Knicks, Knicks fans and other teams fans, including Pacers fans, said that OG was over rated. Since OG was traded, some Pacers fans where up in arms saying Siakam was over rated, but now they have nothing but great things to say about Siakam. Everyone said that Toronto fans over rated their players, but I don't see the Clippers with Kawii & Powell, Houston with FVV, the Knicks with OG and the Pacers with Siakam complaining about them as players on their own teams.

[stuporman]

I knew that Masai was going to trade Siakam but I'm surpised at how badly that team has looked even before he did. They won 4 games in a row after the trade with the pieces they got in the trade but it rapidly deteriorated after that. Or maybe they are doing a masterful tank job.

Quickley began to show why he still needs to develop more as a full time point guard because being a bench spark scorer means you can have off nights and not tank the whole team but as the every game offensive engine as the PG that won't work.

RJ has always been able to get decent looking counting stats and after a few games with the Raptors it may have looked like a system change would reveal he wasn't inefficient as he was with the Knicks. Of course, then some more games actually revealed he's the same streaky player that gets decent counting stats.

Since their pick is top 6 protected, or it goes to SAS it might be they rather just bottom out and keep it, but none of their young 'core' players have been looking all that impressive. All the clamoring about their perfect fit it's looked rather awkward at times but I guess there's plenty of time for them to gel.

It's going to take a few years to see how much of a 'win' this win-win trade is for the Raptors and to be quite honest, it will take a few years to see how much of a win for the Knicks it has been as well. If they don't go on deep playoff runs through Brunson's prime then how much of a win is it really?

[cgf]

He’s a lot better than I knew tbh

Me too…..I can’t lie

We tried to tell everyone. They just mocked us with a Raps in 4 post.

Man I miss OG.

What's so crazy is I thought I appreciated how good OG was because I never thought you guys were homers for hyping his D...and I tried to watch you a bit because of pettiness about people ranking Siakam over Randle ...yet he's still blowing away even my wildest hopes.

[Clyde_Style]

Me too…..I can’t lie

We tried to tell everyone. They just mocked us with a Raps in 4 post.

Man I miss OG.

What's so crazy is I thought I appreciated how good OG was because I never thought you guys were homers for hyping his D...and I tried to watch you a bit because of pettiness about people ranking Siakam over Randle ...yet he's still blowing away even my wildest hopes.

I wasn't being petty about Siakam. I know Randle is a better scorer. I was getting tired of Randle not giving effort on defense and my thought was Siakam may be more inclined to play D. Therefore, the supposition was the net contributions of Siakam on both ends of the floor may equal the net contributions of Randle. It was not a hill I was looking to die on because I only brought it up when everyone was spitballing about the trade options out there. Getting OG was 10X better so it is saul goodman.

[cgf]

I knew that Masai was going to trade Siakam but I'm surpised at how badly that team has looked even before he did. They won 4 games in a row after the trade with the pieces they got in the trade but it rapidly deteriorated after that. Or maybe they are doing a masterful tank job.

Quickley began to show why he still needs to develop more as a full time point guard because being a bench spark scorer means you can have off nights and not tank the whole team but as the every game offensive engine as the PG that won't work.

RJ has always been able to get decent looking counting stats and after a few games with the Raptors it may have looked like a system change would reveal he wasn't inefficient as he was with the Knicks. Of course, then some more games actually revealed he's the same streaky player that gets decent counting stats.

Since their pick is top 6 protected, or it goes to SAS it might be they rather just bottom out and keep it, but none of their young 'core' players have been looking all that impressive. All the clamoring about their perfect fit it's looked rather awkward at times but I guess there's plenty of time for them to gel.

It's going to take a few years to see how much of a 'win' this win-win trade is for the Raptors and to be quite honest, it will take a few years to see how much of a win for the Knicks it has been as well. If they don't go on deep playoff runs through Brunson's prime then how much of a win is it really?

Their record is what it is, but I think you're being too harsh on our boys. RJ has just kept ripping it up for them. Despite the egg he laid in Utah, he's averaging 21-7-3.5 on 61.5% TS as a raptor. And he's doing it getting to the rim & FT line as his 3pt% has come back down to 36% without tanking his efficiency.

And though Quickley's scoring efficiency has dropped back down to his rookie & sophomore levels, he's creating for his team-mates more than ever before; as he's playing like way more of a traditional PG than he did for us.

[cgf]

We tried to tell everyone. They just mocked us with a Raps in 4 post.

Man I miss OG.

What's so crazy is I thought I appreciated how good OG was because I never thought you guys were homers for hyping his D...and I tried to watch you a bit because of pettiness about people ranking Siakam over Randle ...yet he's still blowing away even my wildest hopes.

I wasn't being petty about Siakam. I know Randle is a better scorer. I was getting tired of Randle not giving effort on defense and my thought was Siakam may be more inclined to play D. Therefore, the supposition was the net contributions of Siakam on both ends of the floor may equal the net contributions of Randle. It was not a hill I was looking to die on because I only brought it up when everyone was spitballing about the trade options out there. Getting OG was 10X better so it is saul goodman.

Oh I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. TBH it was more the trade board folks than anyone on here, but again it wasn't just them...and I was the one being petty. Watching Siakam just to see if I still felt justified in my ranking Julius above him since Thibs turned up

[Clyde_Style]

I knew that Masai was going to trade Siakam but I'm surpised at how badly that team has looked even before he did. They won 4 games in a row after the trade with the pieces they got in the trade but it rapidly deteriorated after that. Or maybe they are doing a masterful tank job.

Quickley began to show why he still needs to develop more as a full time point guard because being a bench spark scorer means you can have off nights and not tank the whole team but as the every game offensive engine as the PG that won't work.

RJ has always been able to get decent looking counting stats and after a few games with the Raptors it may have looked like a system change would reveal he wasn't inefficient as he was with the Knicks. Of course, then some more games actually revealed he's the same streaky player that gets decent counting stats.

Since their pick is top 6 protected, or it goes to SAS it might be they rather just bottom out and keep it, but none of their young 'core' players have been looking all that impressive. All the clamoring about their perfect fit it's looked rather awkward at times but I guess there's plenty of time for them to gel.

It's going to take a few years to see how much of a 'win' this win-win trade is for the Raptors and to be quite honest, it will take a few years to see how much of a win for the Knicks it has been as well. If they don't go on deep playoff runs through Brunson's prime then how much of a win is it really?

Their record is what it is, but I think you're being too harsh on our boys. RJ has just kept ripping it up for them. Despite the egg he laid in Utah, he's averaging 21-7-3.5 on 61.5% TS as a raptor. And he's doing it getting to the rim & FT line as his 3pt% has come back down to 36% without tanking his efficiency.

And though Quickley's scoring efficiency has dropped back down to his rookie & sophomore levels, he's creating for his team-mates more than ever before; as he's playing like way more of a traditional PG than he did for us.

When I glanced at RJ's stats I assumed he has been playing quite well and efficiently in TO

I still think IQ is ideal as a 6th man and I'm glad we didn't build the team on the premise he'd be fit into the PG role here

[cgf]

I knew that Masai was going to trade Siakam but I'm surpised at how badly that team has looked even before he did. They won 4 games in a row after the trade with the pieces they got in the trade but it rapidly deteriorated after that. Or maybe they are doing a masterful tank job.

Quickley began to show why he still needs to develop more as a full time point guard because being a bench spark scorer means you can have off nights and not tank the whole team but as the every game offensive engine as the PG that won't work.

RJ has always been able to get decent looking counting stats and after a few games with the Raptors it may have looked like a system change would reveal he wasn't inefficient as he was with the Knicks. Of course, then some more games actually revealed he's the same streaky player that gets decent counting stats.

Since their pick is top 6 protected, or it goes to SAS it might be they rather just bottom out and keep it, but none of their young 'core' players have been looking all that impressive. All the clamoring about their perfect fit it's looked rather awkward at times but I guess there's plenty of time for them to gel.

It's going to take a few years to see how much of a 'win' this win-win trade is for the Raptors and to be quite honest, it will take a few years to see how much of a win for the Knicks it has been as well. If they don't go on deep playoff runs through Brunson's prime then how much of a win is it really?

Their record is what it is, but I think you're being too harsh on our boys. RJ has just kept ripping it up for them. Despite the egg he laid in Utah, he's averaging 21-7-3.5 on 61.5% TS as a raptor. And he's doing it getting to the rim & FT line as his 3pt% has come back down to 36% without tanking his efficiency.

And though Quickley's scoring efficiency has dropped back down to his rookie & sophomore levels, he's creating for his team-mates more than ever before; as he's playing like way more of a traditional PG than he did for us.

When I glanced at RJ's stats I assumed he has been playing quite well and efficiently in TO

I still think IQ is ideal as a 6th man and I'm glad we didn't build the team on the premise he'd be fit into the PG role here

He certainly hasn't been dominant every night, and he laid an absolute egg in Utah, but for the most part, RJ has been doing really well for the Knicks of the north.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4395625/rj-barrett

[cgf]

I too was dead wrong. Thought OG was overrated but fact is he's underrated.

During and when OG was being traded to the Knicks, Knicks fans and other teams fans, including Pacers fans, said that OG was over rated. Since OG was traded, some Pacers fans where up in arms saying Siakam was over rated, but now they have nothing but great things to say about Siakam. Everyone said that Toronto fans over rated their players, but I don't see the Clippers with Kawii & Powell, Houston with FVV, the Knicks with OG and the Pacers with Siakam complaining about them as players on their own teams.

Yeah, both fanbase have certainly proven to be justified in how high they were on their own players, so far. A good reminder of how important fit can be.