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If Randle can't make it back within the next 10 days I would call it a season from a Knicks perspective and do the surgery. Throwing Randle back in at the start of the playoffs has disaster written all over it. I hope the Knicks don't do it.

With Mitch back and OG back we can still make it through the first round and the season would be a big success....

We just signed 2 bums to the rest of the season

I really hope, the one mistake this front office has made in the past, basically not carrying more than one rookie a year, is stopped

We have 3 draft picks in the next draft, and we just gotta take guys and there’s no way that they are any worse than Charlie Brown, Jacob toppin, shake Milton and whoever this new bum is today.

And if ur dumb enough to say “but the cap!” Bro if we can’t figure out a way to do what we need to do with adding late r1 rookie contracts to the salary, we don’t deserve to win anyway.

Atleast they’ll be under 22 and can still improve significantly

stuporman wrote:Thibs droppin hints Mitch about to play...someone with no sources but deductive reasoning mentioned he'd be the first to come back...hmmmm

it was kind of obvious. he was the only one practicing.

mitch looks in real good shape too

Nice to see Mitch showing up again this season, unlike Randle and OG who are clearly out until next season.

Nice to see our backup center is coming back soon

3toheadmelo wrote:Nice to see our backup center is coming back soon

Mitch > Sims

On Mitch...

I don't doubt that he's the most healthy and ready to go over the 3 but would anyone be surprised if he gets injured again before the end of the Knicks season (whenever that is)?

On Randle...

News is a bit concerning. And definitely if he's not ready, they'd be better off not force feeding him in (both because we've seen what he does in the playoffs when he's off and also cause they don't need to risk something happening that would impact next season...and beyond).

This is why I kept insisting that the Knicks look to acquire another proven high level self enabled shot creator "slash" scorer (like a Derozan...just like I harped on a Jimmy Butler). Regular season they don't need a Randle level shot creator. But as we've seen 2 postseasons in a row now, the post season is a different animal isn't it? You need guys that can create their own shot when there is no shot available. You can bet that teams will double down on Brunson and throw off the Knicks offensive game plan (which as we know is not exactly Golden State caliber). Can't be relying on "hot from 3" to go deep in the playoffs.

On OG...

He's actually the potentially biggest concern if there's something chronic going on with that elbow of his as it not only impacts them this season and the playoffs but also in the offseason when they have to decide what to give him to come back (and the numbers being discussed have been more than what they're paying either Robinson or Randle).

And from that (contract and future) perspective, there's also a risk of rushing him back.

god shammgod wrote:

stuporman wrote:Thibs droppin hints Mitch about to play...someone with no sources but deductive reasoning mentioned he'd be the first to come back...hmmmm

it was kind of obvious. he was the only one practicing.

mitch looks in real good shape too

Stating the obvious is like speaking an ancient language around here with the way people overreact to the hysterics of the media trying to get their clicks.

Can the Knicks win a title this year without Randle? (assuming OG and Mitch both return 100%)...

That is the question... I think their chances with Randle are much better than without. Without Randle... I'd say we don't have enough offensive playmakers around Brunson as we'd need against the top contenders... IE... Boston, Denver, etc. would all take Brunson out of the game and our other guys are simply not offensively dynamic enough to make them pay consistently. We'd battle defensively, sure.

With Randle, I think the Knicks are being quite coy on purpose. We were told he wasn't cleared for contact but, then Thibs clarified he's not cleared for "dynamic contact". Just bizarre messaging.

My guess is if the playoffs were today he'd be playing already truthfully. But, since the biggest risk with Randle is his heightened chance at re-injury they are just going to limit his exposure as much as they can and allow him to rest/build the strength up as much as possible before bringing him back. My guess is with somewhere between 5-10 games to go he'll all of a sudden be available but on a similar minutes restriction to IHart and Brunson so he can build a rhythm for the playoffs. I think they're willing to live with whatever seed they get without him playing a prominent role personally..

Knicksfan1992 wrote:With Randle, I think the Knicks are being quite coy on purpose. We were told he wasn't cleared for contact but, then Thibs clarified he's not cleared for "dynamic contact". Just bizarre messaging.

My guess is if the playoffs were today he'd be playing already truthfully. But, since the biggest risk with Randle is his heightened chance at re-injury they are just going to limit his exposure as much as they can and allow him to rest/build the strength up as much as possible before bringing him back. My guess is with somewhere between 5-10 games to go he'll all of a sudden be available but on a similar minutes restriction to IHart and Brunson so he can build a rhythm for the playoffs. I think they're willing to live with whatever seed they get without him playing a prominent role personally..

I hope you're right... OG and Randle for the last 5 games and Mitch for the last 10 would be great.

Knicksfan1992 wrote:With Randle, I think the Knicks are being quite coy on purpose. We were told he wasn't cleared for contact but, then Thibs clarified he's not cleared for "dynamic contact". Just bizarre messaging.

My guess is if the playoffs were today he'd be playing already truthfully. But, since the biggest risk with Randle is his heightened chance at re-injury they are just going to limit his exposure as much as they can and allow him to rest/build the strength up as much as possible before bringing him back. My guess is with somewhere between 5-10 games to go he'll all of a sudden be available but on a similar minutes restriction to IHart and Brunson so he can build a rhythm for the playoffs. I think they're willing to live with whatever seed they get without him playing a prominent role personally..

I suspect the same. Especially since we're in a lighter part of the schedule. There's no need to rush him back as long as we know his return is probable.

He's not losing conditioning or anything. All we need to let him get is his game rhythm back. Otherwise, keep the shoulder safe and save the hard reps for games that matter.

I'm giving up. OG had "minor surgery" to repair a "minor injury" and can't play after two months? Randle being a high risk for reinjury is just dragging this out to possibly return? Seems like wasted time to me. Mitch broke his ankle and had surgery 4 months ago and will be back before both of them? It's torture!!

I am preparing myself for the worst with Randle.
I am not sure WTF is up with OG.
I hope Mitch can stay healthy the rest of the way but, I have serious reservations about that.

We have a true contender with everyone healthy. That's the toughest pill to swallow. If we were just mid... ...it wouldn't be so bad.

sol537 wrote:Can the Knicks win a title this year without Randle? (assuming OG and Mitch both return 100%)...

That is the question... I think their chances with Randle are much better than without. Without Randle... I'd say we don't have enough offensive playmakers around Brunson as we'd need against the top contenders... IE... Boston, Denver, etc. would all take Brunson out of the game and our other guys are simply not offensively dynamic enough to make them pay consistently. We'd battle defensively, sure.

That is the problem and why I've consistently pushed for a move to acquire someone else that can do that of some significance (beyond just "hey more 3 point shooters!"). Said so when it was Randle going solo all the way to the meltdown against the Hawks. Said it again last season. Said it again this season with regards to a guy like Derozan. Talking primary or close to primary shot creators. Guys that can create their own shots when your teammates can't help you get those shots cause the opposing defenses won't allow it.

moocow007 wrote:

sol537 wrote:Can the Knicks win a title this year without Randle? (assuming OG and Mitch both return 100%)...

That is the question... I think their chances with Randle are much better than without. Without Randle... I'd say we don't have enough offensive playmakers around Brunson as we'd need against the top contenders... IE... Boston, Denver, etc. would all take Brunson out of the game and our other guys are simply not offensively dynamic enough to make them pay consistently. We'd battle defensively, sure.

That is the problem and why I've consistently pushed for a move to acquire someone else that can do that of some significance (beyond just "hey more 3 point shooters!"). Said so when it was Randle going solo all the way to the meltdown against the Hawks. Said it again last season. Said it again this season with regards to a guy like Derozan. Talking primary or close to primary shot creators. Guys that can create their own shots when your teammates can't help you get those shots cause the opposing defenses won't allow it.

Chicago would probably have wanted a war chest for Derozan in a trade. But even if it was a couple of picks, I don't think Derozan alone (in lieu of an injured Randle) puts us over the top against the top teams. Plus, he's a free agent so he'd likely be just a rental. I get why Rose didn't mortgage multiple picks for guys like Murray or Derozan. We ride or die with Randle this season... then we go big game hunting this off-season or next trade deadline...all while retaining a great salary to talent ratio...

There's 19 days left in the NBA season, I'm at a point where I don't expect anything from Randle or OG even if they come back, just too little time left in the season for them to just be ready for the playoffs. It's like the Sixers saying Embiid could be back in 3 weeks.

sol537 wrote:

moocow007 wrote:

sol537 wrote:Can the Knicks win a title this year without Randle? (assuming OG and Mitch both return 100%)...

That is the question... I think their chances with Randle are much better than without. Without Randle... I'd say we don't have enough offensive playmakers around Brunson as we'd need against the top contenders... IE... Boston, Denver, etc. would all take Brunson out of the game and our other guys are simply not offensively dynamic enough to make them pay consistently. We'd battle defensively, sure.

That is the problem and why I've consistently pushed for a move to acquire someone else that can do that of some significance (beyond just "hey more 3 point shooters!"). Said so when it was Randle going solo all the way to the meltdown against the Hawks. Said it again last season. Said it again this season with regards to a guy like Derozan. Talking primary or close to primary shot creators. Guys that can create their own shots when your teammates can't help you get those shots cause the opposing defenses won't allow it.

Chicago would probably have wanted a war chest for Derozan in a trade. But even if it was a couple of picks, I don't think Derozan alone (in lieu of an injured Randle) puts us over the top against the top teams. Plus, he's a free agent so he'd likely be just a rental. I get why Rose didn't mortgage multiple picks for guys like Murray or Derozan. We ride or die with Randle this season... then we go big game hunting this off-season or next trade deadline...all while retaining a great salary to talent ratio...

A couple picks would have been worth it IMO. It may not be enough but it gets us a lot closer is the point. And then if Randle does come back? Even more potent. But as far as enough or not, then again, the vast majority of the peanut gallery was saying that Jimmy Butler wasn't going to be enough (I believe he was old and broken down is what was said) and would have back then right? I remember being ridiculed by the vast majority for suggesting Butler when rumors were that the Heat may be looking to rebuild.

sol537 wrote:

Knicksfan1992 wrote:With Randle, I think the Knicks are being quite coy on purpose. We were told he wasn't cleared for contact but, then Thibs clarified he's not cleared for "dynamic contact". Just bizarre messaging.

My guess is if the playoffs were today he'd be playing already truthfully. But, since the biggest risk with Randle is his heightened chance at re-injury they are just going to limit his exposure as much as they can and allow him to rest/build the strength up as much as possible before bringing him back. My guess is with somewhere between 5-10 games to go he'll all of a sudden be available but on a similar minutes restriction to IHart and Brunson so he can build a rhythm for the playoffs. I think they're willing to live with whatever seed they get without him playing a prominent role personally..

I hope you're right... OG and Randle for the last 5 games and Mitch for the last 10 would be great.

Coming back with 5 games left just isn't enough time, that's too late. We needed these guys back with 15 games left so they could get their timing, conditioning and acclimated within the offense. Asking guys to come back from missing 3 months and jump right back into the playoffs with 5 games under their belts is just bad recipe. If Randle comes back and stinks it up in the playoffs I wont even hold it against him this time, I don't expect anything from him offensively after missing that much time and jumping into playoff basketball.

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

sol537 wrote:

Knicksfan1992 wrote:With Randle, I think the Knicks are being quite coy on purpose. We were told he wasn't cleared for contact but, then Thibs clarified he's not cleared for "dynamic contact". Just bizarre messaging.

My guess is if the playoffs were today he'd be playing already truthfully. But, since the biggest risk with Randle is his heightened chance at re-injury they are just going to limit his exposure as much as they can and allow him to rest/build the strength up as much as possible before bringing him back. My guess is with somewhere between 5-10 games to go he'll all of a sudden be available but on a similar minutes restriction to IHart and Brunson so he can build a rhythm for the playoffs. I think they're willing to live with whatever seed they get without him playing a prominent role personally..

I hope you're right... OG and Randle for the last 5 games and Mitch for the last 10 would be great.

Coming back with 5 games left just isn't enough time, that's too late. We needed these guys back with 15 games left so they could get their timing, conditioning and acclimated within the offense. Asking guys to come back from missing 3 months and jump right back into the playoffs with 5 games under their belts is just bad recipe. If Randle comes back and stinks it up in the playoffs I wont even hold it against him this time, I don't expect anything from him offensively after missing that much time and jumping into playoff basketball.

5 games is the difference between a healthy Randle and a hurt one from last year and I think that's more than enough. Conditioning doesn't go away for an injury like OG's and maybe to an extend Randle's. Timing, you're right, but conditioning won't be an issue. Robinson's injury is more likely to deal with conditioning issues because the injury was below the waist.

Wildcat wrote:

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

sol537 wrote:
I hope you're right... OG and Randle for the last 5 games and Mitch for the last 10 would be great.

Coming back with 5 games left just isn't enough time, that's too late. We needed these guys back with 15 games left so they could get their timing, conditioning and acclimated within the offense. Asking guys to come back from missing 3 months and jump right back into the playoffs with 5 games under their belts is just bad recipe. If Randle comes back and stinks it up in the playoffs I wont even hold it against him this time, I don't expect anything from him offensively after missing that much time and jumping into playoff basketball.

5 games is the difference between a healthy Randle and a hurt one from last year and I think that's more than enough. Conditioning doesn't go away for an injury like OG's and maybe to an extend Randle's. Timing, you're right, but conditioning won't be an issue. Robinson's injury is more likely to deal with conditioning issues because the injury was below the waist.

5 games against teams with nothing to play for isn't enough, he only missed 2 weeks last year before the playoffs and looked like a shell of himself, he has missed 2 months now. Conditioning will be an issue, just going through drills and playing 5 meaningless games in preparation for the playoffs isn't how things are done, most good teams are shutting their players down then or giving them extremely limited minutes, he's not going to get anything approaching playoff intensity vs the Celtics, Bulls, Nets and Bucks the last 5 games.

We've seen it over and over again guys coming back for the playoffs and just laying duds that have missed less time than Randle, Embiid's numbers in particular are a testament to that. We saw it with Randle this year, he had surgery in the offseason and took 20-30 games to get back to where he was previously, he averaged 19ppg on 38% shooting the first 15 games of the season, he needed time to ramp up. You're expecting too much if you're thinking 5 games is enough before going into a series.