Brunson Injury Update - Thibs "Brunson out vs. Hawks, MRI came up clean, held out to make sure Brunson is 100%"

[KnicksGod]

I have a little speculation. If your brace / leg support is on too tightly to start the game and it’s tugging at your knee cap (or some other part of the leg or knee) in an awkward way, and something shifts when you make your first movement that causes the knee cap or other muscle or ligament or whatever to ‘snap back into place’ — could that shift cause some kind of shock to a nerve or sudden knee pain?

[Juco24]

Yea it was Isiah he banged knees with coming off the screen

Here's the thing. The expert doctor (and I don't doubt he's an expert) is basing his diagnosis on a bad angle video, where he THINKS Brunson and Okoro make leg contact. I downloaded the ESPN game, watched their replay, and from a slightly higher angle replay, Okoro's knee doesn't get within 4 inches of Brunson. From that part of the clip, it looks completely non contact.

But 2 seconds earlier, there's a 3 player bunch up on the screen of Brunson, Okoro, iShart.

I'll take the Knicks word it's a contusion, but I'm not completely optimistic yet.

He banged knees with Hartensein right before this.

Yep! The actual cause happened before not during. Delayed reaction... I remember playing football and broke my finger. Didn't realize until later. Adrenaline and all that. Delayed reaction to an injury is actually common

[Jalen Bluntson]

Hart is the one dude on the roster where you know that something is clearly off about him, and everyone else around him does too, and just accepts it for what it is.

Dude just likes to crack jokes and doesn't take himself too seriously all of the time. I don't think there's anything off about him at all. My kind of dude actually.

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lol right Hart is just like the class clown type of guy. You would have to think it has to create good energy in the locker room

Like Beasley was... except there WAS something off about that dude.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Here's the thing. The expert doctor (and I don't doubt he's an expert) is basing his diagnosis on a bad angle video, where he THINKS Brunson and Okoro make leg contact. I downloaded the ESPN game, watched their replay, and from a slightly higher angle replay, Okoro's knee doesn't get within 4 inches of Brunson. From that part of the clip, it looks completely non contact.

But 2 seconds earlier, there's a 3 player bunch up on the screen of Brunson, Okoro, iShart.

I'll take the Knicks word it's a contusion, but I'm not completely optimistic yet.

He banged knees with Hartensein right before this.

Yep! The actual cause happened before not during. Delayed reaction... I remember playing football and broke my finger. Didn't realize until later. Adrenaline and all that. Delayed reaction to an injury is actually common

This was what was so scary. Not seeing any contact as the shot went up and then he collapsed several times. Looked like the dreaded non contact, that's a wrap type injury. It made me sick to my stomach! Watching his ankle flopping around while he was trying to walk hit hard!

Thankfully/hopefully it is a very short term recovery. I can't stand this waiting for another wheel to fall off feeling every night! We need players back and, Thibs needs to calm the fuq down with these 40+ minutes per game runs for weeks and months at a time! I desperately want to see everyone back healthy to make a run. Randle is the only concern I have left. Fingers crossed!

[KnicksGod]

What is peroneal nerve entrapment in athletes?
Peroneal nerve entrapment is one of the less common causes of exercise-induced leg pain in competitive athletes. This type of lower extremity peripheral nerve dysfunction is usually associated with activities that subject the nerve to constant compression or repetitive trauma.
Peroneal nerve entrapment in athletes - PubMed
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › ...

[KnicksGod]

The deep peroneal nerve can be injured in the area of crossing from the ankle to the foot. This can usually be seen in skaters and skiers when inappropriate sports equipment compresses the nerve in the ankle area.
PERIPHERAL NERVE INJURY IN SPORTS - PMC - NCBI
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC6536272
About Featured Snippets

[KnicksGod]

Traumatic knee-level peroneal nerve injury due to sports is usually associated with stretch/contusion, which more often requires graft repair. Graft length is the factor to be considered for the prognosis of nerve repair.

[KnicksGod]

Hopefully he was walking around but this stuff about damage to the deep nerve isn't good at all. It's like taking a nerve from somewhere else and trying to implant it and it is not something a high level athlete can really recover from.

So if he got a shock, that's one thing, but if he damaged it, it seems like a really bad injury.

The medical stuff does say it is related to a contusion, as Thibs said. So that lines up. But depends on whether the nerve suffered real damage. Also they mention inappropriate gear. I think having these overly tight wraps could be a problem.

Which, if any of this is true, means the NBA needs to send out a directive that these compression sleeves could be dangerous.

[KnicksGod]

Treatment of peroneal nerve contusion

Treatment depends on the cause of your injury.

Knee contusion related

Peroneal nerve symptoms caused by an acute injury to the outer knee may resolve once your knee injury has healed and any swelling or pressure on the nerve has dispersed.

Repetitive compression

If your injury is caused by repetitive compression from training or work-related activities then this should be addressed.

Nerve damage

Symptoms caused by damage to the nerve itself (i.e. from a fracture or dislocation) are more difficult to treat, although, in all but the most severe cases. The damage will usually heal itself, although this can be a very slow process.

[Juco24]

He banged knees with Hartensein right before this.

Yep! The actual cause happened before not during. Delayed reaction... I remember playing football and broke my finger. Didn't realize until later. Adrenaline and all that. Delayed reaction to an injury is actually common

This was what was so scary. Not seeing any contact as the shot went up and then he collapsed several times. Looked like the dreaded non contact, that's a wrap type injury. It made me sick to my stomach! Watching his ankle flopping around while he was trying to walk hit hard!

Thankfully/hopefully it is a very short term recovery. I can't stand this waiting for another wheel to fall off feeling every night! We need players back and, Thibs needs to calm the fuq down with these 40+ minutes per game runs for weeks and months at a time! I desperately want to see everyone back healthy to make a run. Randle is the only concern I have left. Fingers crossed!

Man, I don't know if you've ever had nerve issues but I have.... I tell you - it's one of the worse feelings you can have when your nerves aren't firing correctly. Nerve compression can cause dropped foot and trauma (such as a sharp blow) can cause nerve compression.

I haven't had this type of injury but I have had nerve trouble issues. NO FUN!

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yep! The actual cause happened before not during. Delayed reaction... I remember playing football and broke my finger. Didn't realize until later. Adrenaline and all that. Delayed reaction to an injury is actually common

This was what was so scary. Not seeing any contact as the shot went up and then he collapsed several times. Looked like the dreaded non contact, that's a wrap type injury. It made me sick to my stomach! Watching his ankle flopping around while he was trying to walk hit hard!

Thankfully/hopefully it is a very short term recovery. I can't stand this waiting for another wheel to fall off feeling every night! We need players back and, Thibs needs to calm the fuq down with these 40+ minutes per game runs for weeks and months at a time! I desperately want to see everyone back healthy to make a run. Randle is the only concern I have left. Fingers crossed!

Man, I don't know if you've ever had nerve issues but I have.... I tell you - it's one of the worse feelings you can have when your nerves aren't firing correctly. Nerve compression can cause dropped foot and trauma (such as a sharp blow) can cause nerve compression.

I haven't had this type of injury but I have had nerve trouble issues. NO FUN!

I have had too many injuries to remember. I do know I banged my knee and had my entire leg go numb but it was very temporary and was nothing lingering. The funny bone effect. Like when they check reflexes tapping the nerve in your knee.

I didn't see contact in this case so, at first I thought it was a wrap. iHart needs to calm the fuq down!!

[KnicksGod]

Basically what I’ve seen from reputable stuff online is this — a contusion can cause the nerve to be compressed.

The swelling from the contusion can go down and then the nerve comes back fully, unless it’s injured and then it’s healing or surgery.

But I think since they’re mentioning compression and bad gear, trainers need to be aware of how these wraps may be affecting the wrapped part. This last part is where I’m speculating mostly.

Also speculative but based on what I’ve seen: once JB’s bruise heals, we may know better whether the nerve has damage, and maybe an MRI will also tell us that.

[Woodsanity]

Get him some rest even if its not serious. As long as we make the playoffs its fine. Most important thing is our players can actually play come playoffs....

[aromeoj]

This can go in two directions. Bone Contusion - causing nerve impingement or pinched nerve and he will be fine. 2nd one Bone contusion causing damaged nerve and foot drop which then would require surgery. The fact that none of the foot drop talk came out of Thibs or other is a good sign.

Right when it happened and i saw him bang knees with Ihart i thought the first scenario was the case. Just in the fact that he did take a couple steps and the nerve was working/not working for lack of better term.

[KnicksGod]

Because MRI provides exquisite soft tissue detail, the peroneal nerve can often be well visualised, even on routine MR sequences. In most centres, a combination of coronal, sagittal, axial fat-suppressed intermediate weighted sequences and a sagittal T1-weighted sequence is used for routine imaging of the knee.May 25, 2013
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc

Doctor of Internet Medicine (D.I.M.)

[TheGreenArrow]

Because MRI provides exquisite soft tissue detail, the peroneal nerve can often be well visualised, even on routine MR sequences. In most centres, a combination of coronal, sagittal, axial fat-suppressed intermediate weighted sequences and a sagittal T1-weighted sequence is used for routine imaging of the knee.May 25, 2013
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc

Doctor of Internet Medicine (D.I.M.)

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[The Lamma]

Hart is the one dude on the roster where you know that something is clearly off about him, and everyone else around him does too, and just accepts it for what it is.

Dude just likes to crack jokes and doesn't take himself too seriously all of the time. I don't think there's anything off about him at all. My kind of dude actually.

Still like that take he did when the other team's guy didn't shake his hand last year.

That was Jimmy Butthole who left our boy flappin in the breeze. Pos

[The Lamma]

Because MRI provides exquisite soft tissue detail, the peroneal nerve can often be well visualised, even on routine MR sequences. In most centres, a combination of coronal, sagittal, axial fat-suppressed intermediate weighted sequences and a sagittal T1-weighted sequence is used for routine imaging of the knee.May 25, 2013
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc

Doctor of Internet Medicine (D.I.M.)

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[GettinitDone]

I'd never seen or heard someone bang their knees and 5 secs later they feel the impact on such excruciatingly painful level... like most everyone watching live I thought it's a no contact injury, but hopeful the assessment is right and it's only knee contusion.

God of Bball, what sacrifices do you want, so we can be injury free the rest of season? Chicken, frog, or pigeon ?

[KnicksGod]

I'd never seen or heard someone bang their knees and 5 secs later they feel the impact on such excruciatingly painful level... like most everyone watching live I thought it's a no contact injury, but hopeful the assessment is right and it's only knee contusion.

God of Bball, what sacrifices do you want? Chicken, frog, or pigeon ?

They want to burn me at the stake if you read last night's posts. Martyr KnicksGod. Seems a fitting ending.

I really think it could be that his brace and/or how he landed did something to the nerve but didn't do damage. I think trainers need to look again at how tightly they're wrapping things. This tidbit I found did say that the wrong wrap or compression can cause a nerve injury.