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He's better than IQ when you factor in contract, sorry but ain't no way in hell I'd want to pay IQ 20-25 million a year.

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:He's better than IQ when you factor in contract, sorry but ain't no way in hell I'd want to pay IQ 20-25 million a year.

Not for off the bench, yeah, but I think he's worth that money.

knicks94 wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:

knicks94 wrote:I hope not one Knicks fan continues crying about the Knicks trading IQ.

Sounds to me like you just didn’t appreciate IQ. That’s a very sad thing that probably says more about you as a fan than anything.

Nice little strawman argument you got going there, Mr. or Mrs.KnicksGadfly! So I can't have an opinion on IQ because that proves that I did not appreciate IQ as a player? You really are the most smartest and logical poster I've ever come across on this entire forum. And I've come across many posters on this forum over the years.

Eh, that’s why I prefaced my statement with “sounds like.” It gives you a chance to explain what you meant, while acknowledging that it’s my opinion. But guess you didn’t want to (although judging from your over the top reaction, I might have hit too close to the mark for your comfort).

A bro starts with a post about how he hopes no one starts crying about IQ, gets called out…and then starts crying. Oh behalf of all the IQ defenders, I apologize. We must have hurt your feelings a lot.

KnicksGadfly wrote:

knicks94 wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:
Sounds to me like you just didn’t appreciate IQ. That’s a very sad thing that probably says more about you as a fan than anything.

Nice little strawman argument you got going there, Mr. or Mrs.KnicksGadfly! So I can't have an opinion on IQ because that proves that I did not appreciate IQ as a player? You really are the most smartest and logical poster I've ever come across on this entire forum. And I've come across many posters on this forum over the years.

Eh, that’s why I prefaced my statement with “sounds like.” It gives you a chance to explain what you meant, while acknowledging that it’s my opinion. But guess you didn’t want to (although judging from your over the top reaction, I might have hit too close to the mark for your comfort).

A bro starts with a post about how he hopes no one starts crying about IQ, gets called out…and then starts crying. Oh behalf of all the IQ defenders, I apologize. We must have hurt your feelings a lot.

"Sounds like" is mostly used to draw a conclusion about something or someone, and very well sounded like a direct personal shot. And then you went ahead and wrapped up your statement with questioning my fandom about a team that I've been loyally following for 30 years.

I very well know that you were not simply wanting to hear about my opinion regarding IQ and just wanted to get personal. How do I know this? Because 90 percent of your posts to me in this thread are directed at my character, that you know nothing about, instead of anything related to the original topic.

Wildcat wrote:Grimes was too busy looking over his shoulder at Ragu even though he was there to replace IQ. 100% mental block. A fresh start is going to do him well next season. I'm still on Team Grimes. Just wish he got out of his own way. Also, not sure what's going on with his knee, but they should shut him down.

I agree. He just lost his confidence. We were lucky to have Deuce on the roster and Rokas potentially able to come over next season.

knicks94 wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:

knicks94 wrote:
Nice little strawman argument you got going there, Mr. or Mrs.KnicksGadfly! So I can't have an opinion on IQ because that proves that I did not appreciate IQ as a player? You really are the most smartest and logical poster I've ever come across on this entire forum. And I've come across many posters on this forum over the years.

Eh, that’s why I prefaced my statement with “sounds like.” It gives you a chance to explain what you meant, while acknowledging that it’s my opinion. But guess you didn’t want to (although judging from your over the top reaction, I might have hit too close to the mark for your comfort).

A bro starts with a post about how he hopes no one starts crying about IQ, gets called out…and then starts crying. Oh behalf of all the IQ defenders, I apologize. We must have hurt your feelings a lot.

"Sounds like" is mostly used to draw a conclusion about something or someone, and very well sounded like a direct personal shot. And then you went ahead and wrapped up your statement with questioning my fandom about a team that I've been loyally following for 30 years.

I very well know that you were not simply wanting to hear about my opinion regarding IQ and just wanted to get personal. How do I know this? Because 90 percent of your posts to me in this thread are directed at my character, that you know nothing about, instead of anything related to the original topic.

I have 2 posts to you on this thread. Now 3…not too hard to get to 90%. Notice that I didn’t say anything about you not being a real Knicks fan. I started by questioning

1) how you felt about IQ
2) what that means to you as a fan

For point 1) I think it’s pretty easy to see. Anyone who appreciates IQ and what he did for the Knicks would not make the initial post you did. “I hope no one is crying about IQ anymore.” Or something like that. I think a post like that is asking for rebuttal and also asking posters to get angry. Might as well own it. You wanted to bring up the argument and you got it.

2) I don’t question your fandom but I do question the nature of your fandom. I question the nature of anyone’s fandom who can’t appreciate IQ for what he did. Did he not work hard? Did he not play defense? Rebound well? Improve? So yes, I see posters who can hate this type of player and I think it does something about their fandom.

But hey, maybe I should have just wrote a post that said “I hope no one ever cries about Knicks fans crying about IQ.” You’re no victim. Did you think no one was gonna respond to your post? You think you were gonna get lots of +1 and applause? Nah. Hell, you don’t even understand why people liked IQ as a player. And if you did, then I have no idea why you posted what you did. And you shouldn’t be surprised either.

Deeeez Knicks wrote:It’s amazing to watch the journey of Deuce this season. He has slowly gained Thibs trust to playing pretty much the entire game and his game is coming together.

He’s playing with so much more confidence, getting into the paint, making some high level reads, finishing with his left hand. The pull-up game is on some elite levels with similar % to Brunson, just on much less volume. Of course his spot up shooting has been on point. He takes care of the ball, makes the extra pass, hustles non stop. He fits in perfectly with the Nova guys and Thibs style. Heard someone mention he’s an honorary Nova guy and would agree 100% with that.

Early in the season he had a D-league stint, to get some minutes. It's crazy how much has changed for him this season. Granted, the injuries and trading Quick and Grimes was a big part of that, but even so, I don't think anyone expected this kind of play from him this year.

Iron Mantis wrote:
Deuce could realistically be a year behind in his development. Nevertheless, I'm thankful he's getting the chance to shine. Unfortunately, he's probably taking Grimes' place in a star trade this summer.

For now, he's a key piece on our roster. I don't think they'll look to trade him. Same with Grimes last year. The knicks were reluctant to incude Grimes in the Donovan Mitchell trade, which . . . part of that was Grimes was 6'5 - our only guard with some size, but they also liked him.

It's hard to say what NY will do via trade. Deuce has stepped up to replace Grimes, so the trade didn't hurt us, but it didn't help us much and it cost us a high 2nd rounder.

Bogs, Burks (no value but salary matches), lots of picks. I think that's what will be offered in trade. After that, it's mostly positional.

They're going to try to keep I-Hart, but I could see another team outbidding us.

I-Hart (if they keep him). Mitch - C. Sims - depth
Randle - PF. Precious - depth
OG - SF - great player but injury concerns. J-Hart - backup SF, can play SG and they run some small lineups - good depth.
Guards: Brunson/Donte/Deuce.

I don't think they'll be aggressive trying to trade one of their core players, even if the core is currently 9 or 10 deep. I think they need all those guys, for depth. They have a good amount of depth. Not too much, as this year has demonstrated.

Boggie and Burks are 100%, absolutely tradable, however. But no value. It's all about the picks. Mavs & Knicks in 2024. Bucks & Knicks in 2025. The Wizards and Pistons picks are in limbo until those teams start to win. Might turn into 2nds.

duetta wrote:
I agree. He just lost his confidence. We were lucky to have Deuce on the roster and Rokas potentially able to come over next season.

As I understand it, Rokas wants playing time. Will he even be a Thibs player? Is he concerned about being benched if he does come over? I'd understand if he's concerned and I don't know if he comes over next year, but I'm curious what he can contribute if he does.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

Iron Mantis wrote:
Deuce could realistically be a year behind in his development. Nevertheless, I'm thankful he's getting the chance to shine. Unfortunately, he's probably taking Grimes' place in a star trade this summer.

For now, he's a key piece on our roster. I don't think they'll look to trade him. Same with Grimes last year. The knicks were reluctant to incude Grimes in the Donovan Mitchell trade, which . . . part of that was Grimes was 6'5 - our only guard with some size, but they also liked him.

It's hard to say what NY will do via trade. Deuce has stepped up to replace Grimes, so the trade didn't hurt us, but it didn't help us much and it cost us a high 2nd rounder.

Bogs, Burks (no value but salary matches), lots of picks. I think that's what will be offered in trade. After that, it's mostly positional.

They're going to try to keep I-Hart, but I could see another team outbidding us.

I-Hart (if they keep him). Mitch - C. Sims - depth
Randle - PF. Precious - depth
OG - SF - great player but injury concerns. J-Hart - backup SF, can play SG and they run some small lineups - good depth.
Guards: Brunson/Donte/Deuce.

I don't think they'll be aggressive trying to trade one of their core players, even if the core is currently 9 or 10 deep. I think they need all those guys, for depth. They have a good amount of depth. Not too much, as this year has demonstrated.

Boggie and Burks are 100%, absolutely tradable, however. But no value. It's all about the picks. Mavs & Knicks in 2024. Bucks & Knicks in 2025. The Wizards and Pistons picks are in limbo until those teams start to win. Might turn into 2nds.

I hear you, but in the current NBA it's rare that an offensive star is traded just for picks and old bench guys on expiring contracts.

There's almost always youth or a very good player coming back, in addition to the picks.

Knicks could afford to hold Grimes out of Mitchell talks because they had several other promising young players to offer. They don't have that luxury anymore.

If the Knicks can pull off a star trade by only giving up expiring trash and a bunch of picks, then the paradigm has shifted to the Knicks becoming the darlings of the league and other teams bending over for us in trades.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

Iron Mantis wrote:
Deuce could realistically be a year behind in his development. Nevertheless, I'm thankful he's getting the chance to shine. Unfortunately, he's probably taking Grimes' place in a star trade this summer.

For now, he's a key piece on our roster. I don't think they'll look to trade him. Same with Grimes last year. The knicks were reluctant to incude Grimes in the Donovan Mitchell trade, which . . . part of that was Grimes was 6'5 - our only guard with some size, but they also liked him.

It's hard to say what NY will do via trade. Deuce has stepped up to replace Grimes, so the trade didn't hurt us, but it didn't help us much and it cost us a high 2nd rounder.

Bogs, Burks (no value but salary matches), lots of picks. I think that's what will be offered in trade. After that, it's mostly positional.

They're going to try to keep I-Hart, but I could see another team outbidding us.

I-Hart (if they keep him). Mitch - C. Sims - depth
Randle - PF. Precious - depth
OG - SF - great player but injury concerns. J-Hart - backup SF, can play SG and they run some small lineups - good depth.
Guards: Brunson/Donte/Deuce.

I don't think they'll be aggressive trying to trade one of their core players, even if the core is currently 9 or 10 deep. I think they need all those guys, for depth. They have a good amount of depth. Not too much, as this year has demonstrated.

Boggie and Burks are 100%, absolutely tradable, however. But no value. It's all about the picks. Mavs & Knicks in 2024. Bucks & Knicks in 2025. The Wizards and Pistons picks are in limbo until those teams start to win. Might turn into 2nds.

Burks is an UFA this offseason.

The Knicks will have enough tradeable contracts and capital to make a big move if a star player demands they want out.

Bogie 20m
Mitch 14m
2 2024 FRPs
2 2024 SRPs

Deuce has developed his game nicely and it's rounding out the way I saw it during his draft, he was a guy I advocated for drafting beforehand. As a 3&D 1 his real hurdle was being consistent in his role given how much that PG spot is usually expected of it.

He shot the heck out of it in college so I knew he was going to eventually do it in the NBA and his pesky defensive energy was going to translate, the only thing he had to figure out is how to impact the game playing the PG spot without actually being a PG.

Even right after IQ got traded the first few games, he was still trying to figure it out and then it's like something clicked for him, he finally realized the vision of what he can do to help the team win. Although, it still isn't being a PG for his role even though he's playing quite a bit of time at the 1.

The best part of his offensive game is his pull up game, anywhere on the floor it looks smooth af, and he's turning into a lethal sniper imo even more than IQ was or Divo is which both of them are, too. His defensive game is exceptional but niche, he won't be able to guard as many people as we wish he could.

Why he's exploded in the most recent step of his development is the consistency from game to game. It's one thing to make an impact once in a while or only half the time, he's now showing up more often than not. He doesn't have to hit his ceiling every game, just consistently keep the floor raised.

He's playing in the playoffs, Thibs doesn't have alot of options at guard and the Knicks need a few of them to get anywhere in the playoffs. I guess we are going to find out if Deuce is built for the spotlight and in some significant ways he may have an impact on the Knicks postseason success.

KnicksGadfly wrote:

knicks94 wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:
Eh, that’s why I prefaced my statement with “sounds like.” It gives you a chance to explain what you meant, while acknowledging that it’s my opinion. But guess you didn’t want to (although judging from your over the top reaction, I might have hit too close to the mark for your comfort).

A bro starts with a post about how he hopes no one starts crying about IQ, gets called out…and then starts crying. Oh behalf of all the IQ defenders, I apologize. We must have hurt your feelings a lot.

"Sounds like" is mostly used to draw a conclusion about something or someone, and very well sounded like a direct personal shot. And then you went ahead and wrapped up your statement with questioning my fandom about a team that I've been loyally following for 30 years.

I very well know that you were not simply wanting to hear about my opinion regarding IQ and just wanted to get personal. How do I know this? Because 90 percent of your posts to me in this thread are directed at my character, that you know nothing about, instead of anything related to the original topic.

I have 2 posts to you on this thread. Now 3…not too hard to get to 90%. Notice that I didn’t say anything about you not being a real Knicks fan. I started by questioning

1) how you felt about IQ
2) what that means to you as a fan

For point 1) I think it’s pretty easy to see. Anyone who appreciates IQ and what he did for the Knicks would not make the initial post you did. “I hope no one is crying about IQ anymore.” Or something like that. I think a post like that is asking for rebuttal and also asking posters to get angry. Might as well own it. You wanted to bring up the argument and you got it.

2) I don’t question your fandom but I do question the nature of your fandom. I question the nature of anyone’s fandom who can’t appreciate IQ for what he did. Did he not work hard? Did he not play defense? Rebound well? Improve? So yes, I see posters who can hate this type of player and I think it does something about their fandom.

But hey, maybe I should have just wrote a post that said “I hope no one ever cries about Knicks fans crying about IQ.” You’re no victim. Did you think no one was gonna respond to your post? You think you were gonna get lots of +1 and applause? Nah. Hell, you don’t even understand why people liked IQ as a player. And if you did, then I have no idea why you posted what you did. And you shouldn’t be surprised either.

You took one statement that I made to no poster in particular, assumed that I somehow was anti-IQ and threw a personal little jab at me. And this is not the first time you decided to go at me, you've done so a couple of other times in the past as well.

As for my original post, it had nothing to do with me not liking IQ when he was a Knick or not appreciating his contributions. My opinion was based on the fact that Knicks fans in general should feel happy that McBride has filled a role and shouldn't dwell on losing out on IQ.

Luv those Knicks wrote:Am I the only one who thinks the Knicks did him dirty, signing him on the cheap before his minutes went up? They limited Mitch's minutes before extending him too. With the cap, this kind of shenanigan might be necessary but it's unfortunate.

If I'm wrong, let me know, but that's what it looks like to me. If I see it, I'm sure the players see it.

this is common business practice and i could argue why it is smart business by the knicks.

noone forced deuce to accept, he coulda bet on himself. but getting a 4 year contract is something you take for safety, when your standing in the league is not clear. which it isnt or wasnt. depending what other teams think of deuce

Time for people to admit that Thibs develops players

DrCoach wrote:Time for people to admit that Thibs develops players

If you ignore all the players he didn't develop, he definitely does!

McBride is making the most out of his opportunity. Players like Grimes that hid in the corner, obviously did so of their own volition. He has the testicular fortitude that others lacked

DOT wrote:

DrCoach wrote:Time for people to admit that Thibs develops players

If you ignore all the players he didn't develop, he definitely does!

so much hate inside you

Once again....

Deuce >>> IQ, Grimes, RJ

*based on contract, defense, overall long-term potential... IMO of course

sol537 wrote:Once again....

Deuce >>> IQ, Grimes, RJ

*based on contract, defense, overall long-term potential... IMO of course

Deuce > Bruce Brown