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The sportswriter Pablo Torre has a Youtube show called Pablo Torre Finds Out where he does a deep dive into a revelatory topic. I never really enjoyed him on ESPN, but I think he has really hit his stride with this show - it's really interesting and I've found myself enjoying the topics that he's touched on (two that stand out are the episode about NBA statkeepers cooking the books and the one that shows the concept of an "alpha wolf" is completely false).

I remember all the drama about The Decision, and specifically the way the Knicks pursued him, including the video. I remember how Woj destroyed the presentation, and the general consensus was that it was clumsy and boring (and how we all railed against that notion as Knicks fans). Pablo somehow got his hands on the it, and he unveils it to fellow Knicks fans World Wide Wob and Jason Concepcion (@Netw3rk).

Pablo has unearthed a long-rumored, previously unpublished, for-your-eyes-only video from the summer of 2010, featuring a committee of A-list New Yorkers recruiting free agent LeBron James to the Garden. It may feature one of the biggest revelations in TV history, but let's just say — between a couple former politicians and another convicted rapist — that this tape has aged very, very poorly.

It's fun to watch this now, with the Knicks having assembled a competent FO and a team that has the city on fire again. Because, god DAMN all the criticism turned out to be accurate

that bitch ain't getting my view.

fuq him and his butt buddy dan leretard.

Yikes.

Glad this franchise is in a really different place now. We have a good team, we have NYC…I feel pretty good about where we are today.

KnicksGadfly wrote:Glad this franchise is in a really different place now. We have a good team, we have NYC…I feel pretty good about where we are today.

After all those celebrity, hobnob, big name, glitz and glam, corporate bull crap schemes failed it's fitting that some short, 33rd pick, son of a scrub who's just been grinding his whole damn life to get here becomes our savior. For so long they forgot what the real city was. How those 90s teams found their success. The grocery bagger. The CBA castoff. The 6' 10" dude who could barely jump. But we're back.

Capn'O wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:Glad this franchise is in a really different place now. We have a good team, we have NYC…I feel pretty good about where we are today.

After all those celebrity, hobnob, big name, glitz and glam, corporate bull crap schemes failed it's fitting that some short, 33rd pick, son of a scrub who's just been grinding his whole damn life to get here becomes our savior. For so long they forgot what the real city was. How those 90s teams found their success. The grocery bagger. The CBA castoff. The 6' 10" dude who could barely jump. But we're back.

Absolutely. I have to say, the one funny moment in all of this that had me like, "maybe we're projecting too much of the past onto these guys who have turned our favorite team around" was in the Fat Joe episode of Roommates. They were talking about the Rucker, and Joe starts talking about how they used to take either Steph or Bassy (I can't remember which one it was) out for "ghetto Chinese" when he was a kid from Coney Island starring in high school. He says "ghetto Chinese" several times, and Brunson looks more and more confused. Eventually he breaks his silence and says to Hart something like, "am I tripping that I don't know what ghetto Chinese is?" Joe eventually explains, to which Jalen responds something like, "oh I know nothing about that, I grew up eating a lot of sushi."

At that point I had to take a step back and remind myself that Jalen's underdog story was exclusively about his size, and had nothing in common with the Starks background archetype. Both pitbull competitors on the court, but Jalen isn't really the 90's Knicks type He's carved out his own space, I'd say.

But yeah, from that LeBron video they've brought it all the way back to basketball and teamwork. And now that they've got the players right, it's super refreshing.

SelbyCobra wrote:

Capn'O wrote:

KnicksGadfly wrote:Glad this franchise is in a really different place now. We have a good team, we have NYC…I feel pretty good about where we are today.

After all those celebrity, hobnob, big name, glitz and glam, corporate bull crap schemes failed it's fitting that some short, 33rd pick, son of a scrub who's just been grinding his whole damn life to get here becomes our savior. For so long they forgot what the real city was. How those 90s teams found their success. The grocery bagger. The CBA castoff. The 6' 10" dude who could barely jump. But we're back.

Absolutely. I have to say, the one funny moment in all of this that had me like, "maybe we're projecting too much of the past onto these guys who have turned our favorite team around" was in the Fat Joe episode of Roommates. They were talking about the Rucker, and Joe starts talking about how they used to take either Steph or Bassy (I can't remember which one it was) out for "ghetto Chinese" when he was a kid from Coney Island starring in high school. He says "ghetto Chinese" several times, and Brunson looks more and more confused. Eventually he breaks his silence and says to Hart something like, "am I tripping that I don't know what ghetto Chinese is?" Joe eventually explains, to which Jalen responds something like, "oh I know nothing about that, I grew up eating a lot of sushi."

At that point I had to take a step back and remind myself that Jalen's underdog story was exclusively about his size, and had nothing in common with the Starks background archetype. Both pitbull competitors on the court, but Jalen isn't really the 90's Knicks type He's carved out his own space, I'd say.

But yeah, from that LeBron video they've brought it all the way back to basketball and teamwork. And now that they've got the players right, it's super refreshing.

I would add that he's incredibly hard working and a very physical player to the point where it's jarring for opponents. But you're right he was raised as basketball royalty, even if it's the bottom of that barrel.

I don't want to get political but I think they were all at one point members of a club in Mar-a-Lago since they might be Dolan's buddies.

**** LeBum and **** 2010! He was never ever coming here or anywhere except Miami. He knew this back in 2008 at the Olympics.

I'm just glad we finally have a good front office and Dolan is out of the way.

The Sopranos clip was a pretty good watch though. Rest in peace James Gandolfini

But man, a lot of it aged really really bad

RIP James Gandolfini

I don't think the video was as bad as people made it out to be. LeBron James was a big fan of the Sopranos. And Gandolfini took the time do do a quick/fun video for him.

Knicks were a 29 win team in 2010, so they couldn't really sell LeBron on "we are a winning culture".

And it wasn't like this was just their pitch to LBJ. It was just a video part of the bigger pitch.

The worst part of all this was signing Amar'e to the max with zero confirmation that LeBron or another star would be willing to join the Knicks. Knicks thought Amar'e would lure LeBron, forgetting that the Cavs had a chance to get him as well but chose not to (meaning the Cavs knew LBJ had no long-term interest in playing with Amare).

Honestly cringe.

Tell him we're gonna draft Bronny and right before our pick, look him right in the eyes and...

https://images.app.goo.gl/YX14qfv8cRjxxj3S6

Stannis wrote:RIP James Gandolfini

I don't think the video was as bad as people made it out to be. LeBron James was a big fan of the Sopranos. And Gandolfini took the time do do a quick/fun video for him.

Knicks were a 29 win team in 2010, so they couldn't really sell LeBron on "we are a winning culture".

And it wasn't like this was just their pitch to LBJ. It was just a video part of the bigger pitch.

The worst part of all this was signing Amar'e to the max with zero confirmation that LeBron or another star would be willing to join the Knicks. Knicks thought Amar'e would lure LeBron, forgetting that the Cavs had a chance to get him as well but chose not to (meaning the Cavs knew LBJ had no long-term interest in playing with Amare).

I think it was Dwayne Wade who said publicly "The Knicks made a great pitch". He didn't have to say that, and he didn't say it about any other teams.

The Knicks lacked a supporting cast. Miami has beach houses and NY really doesn't. Kind of, but out of the way . . . maybe in the Hamptons. Miami has no state tax.

I agree, Miami was a probably done deal well ahead of time. That said, I don't blame NY for making a pitch. How can you? The cap space and attract 2 super-stars path to a title can work. It worked for Miami (they had 3). Didn't work for NJ, but arguably, take away the injury to Kyrie in the playoffs and maybe Jersey gets one too.

Ancient history, and I look back with amusement at NYK's last 20 years. I think they have the worst record in the entire NBA over the last 20 years or so, or at least, they did as of a year or two ago.

The Knicks - as they would 9 years later - showed their hand way too early and it allowed other franchises with a much better basketball team (Heat and Nets both made the playoffs) to "steal" their plans and improve them.

The Knicks also settled on 2 max slots while Miami decided to be much more aggressive and clear 3 near-max slots. At that point we really had 0 shot.

I think the lesson is we had no real leverage, and no winning product to offer, in both situations. We tried the shortcut, but while I appreciate how ambitious it was, it was always unrealistic due to the franchise's circumstances at the time. Oh well.

Luv those Knicks wrote:

Stannis wrote:RIP James Gandolfini

I don't think the video was as bad as people made it out to be. LeBron James was a big fan of the Sopranos. And Gandolfini took the time do do a quick/fun video for him.

Knicks were a 29 win team in 2010, so they couldn't really sell LeBron on "we are a winning culture".

And it wasn't like this was just their pitch to LBJ. It was just a video part of the bigger pitch.

The worst part of all this was signing Amar'e to the max with zero confirmation that LeBron or another star would be willing to join the Knicks. Knicks thought Amar'e would lure LeBron, forgetting that the Cavs had a chance to get him as well but chose not to (meaning the Cavs knew LBJ had no long-term interest in playing with Amare).

I think it was Dwayne Wade who said publicly "The Knicks made a great pitch". He didn't have to say that, and he didn't say it about any other teams.

The Knicks lacked a supporting cast. Miami has beach houses and NY really doesn't. Kind of, but out of the way . . . maybe in the Hamptons. Miami has no state tax.

I agree, Miami was a probably done deal well ahead of time. That said, I don't blame NY for making a pitch. How can you? The cap space and attract 2 super-stars path to a title can work. It worked for Miami (they had 3). Didn't work for NJ, but arguably, take away the injury to Kyrie in the playoffs and maybe Jersey gets one too.

Ancient history, and I look back with amusement at NYK's last 20 years. I think they have the worst record in the entire NBA over the last 20 years or so, or at least, they did as of a year or two ago.

IIRC, what was BS was the NBA stepped in and said the Knicks couldn't offer MSG stock options or something. To me, that's just one of the perks for playing for the Knicks and in NY. Just like one of the talking points in playing for Miami was the no-State tax.

Stannis wrote:
IIRC, what was BS was the NBA stepped in and said the Knicks couldn't offer MSG stock options or something. To me, that's just one of the perks for playing for the Knicks and in NY. Just like one of the talking points in playing for Miami was the no-State tax.

MSG stock options seems to break the salary rules. I don't remember that, but I understand the league's stance.

No State Tax is one of those things that high tax states have to deal with. Only half the games are in-state, so I don't know if that's ever really made a player pick a team. I think location (Miami Sunshine vs Minnesota snow) is a bigger factor and New York City has a natural draw.

I don't feel like the Knicks have an unfair situation, if anything, being "Mecca" is an advantage, though players have personal preferences. Like Sunshine or Larger homes, but NYC is still a draw. It's still a team that stars would want to join in the right circumstances and not all teams can say that. As I recall, Durrant liked NYK, but Kyrie wanted Brooklyn.

The Knicks have been bad because they were mis-managed for 20 years. Maybe 25. Leon seems to know what he's doing. Not that he's always right. He's made some fumbles, but overall he's a big improvement.

Woodsanity wrote:Honestly cringe.

I didn't watch it yet. Was it cornball cringe?

Let's say that the Lebron '08 Summer Olympics rumor was not true and that the Knicks had just as much leverage to acquire him as everybody else had at the time, how would you have pitched him?

I personally would have brought Clyde, Willis, Earl, Bernard, Ewing, Starks and maybe Sprewell with me to Ohio and had those guys do most of the selling. Lebron has always been a guy that respected the greats that were before him.

The very last thing I would have done was shown him a half-azzed commercial of my political and celebrity cronies advertising NYC real estate. Who the hell would want to join an NBA team based on the opinions of Donald Trump, Harvey Weinstein and Michael Bloomberg?

Dolan and his marketing team sure did not do their homework on Lebron and made it all about themselves.The two main questions that they should have asked were: What does Lebron ultimately value? And why does he want to leave the very team that he spent his entire life being a part of? It didn't take a genius to know that Lebron valued his legacy a lot more than helping a city.

When Dolan was putting together that video montage, did he ever consider that the NBA was no longer a league in which stars needed to play for large market teams like the Knicks, Lakers or Bulls in order to build their brand or legacy? Did he also think that Lebron, being a guy who didn't grow up that far from the East Coast, was completely ignorant of the city of NY or the history of the Knicks and Madison Square Garden?

And I've always wanted to know what Mike D'antoni and Allan Houston said to Lebron in that meeting. Did D'antoni tell him that he didn't have to play defense for the next 4 years and that he was never able to take his Phoenix Suns to the NBA finals despite having Amar'e, Steve Nash and Shaq on his roster? Did Houston mention that Dolan was the only idiot to offer him a $100 million dollar contract?

That video was an absolute embarassment and I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron mentally checked out as soon as the play button was pressed.

nobody was built for this and also 2010 was not that time. I dont put it on lebron, that he didnt wanna come here. if aynthing the fact, that he even considered us (at least publicly) is a bit of a compliment and shows respect. we were such a mess in 2010 with dolan having his smeary fingers all over the franchise.

we wouldnt have been able to put 3 max players on the same roster and lebon clearly had in mind to build a superteam, so that wasnt ever gonna happen here. I love donnie he planted a seed, had a good idea and did what he could. he gave us a "light at the end of the tunnel" and cleaned our books, but he doesnt have the power and charisma that a guy like riley has to make that happen.

im not watching that video because i truly dont care. i like the kind of team we have now, the way it was built and how it grew. this represents the city so much better than a lebron lead super team. of course everybody likes rings and we would have celebrated them but lebron just didnt have it in him to play here, at that time especially. you saw what happened in the finals vs dallas. He would have crumbled here.

what we have now actually feels right, if you get me. and a ring with this kind of team will feel so much better. We are gonna be overwhelmed with joy. But if a team like the heatles wins, i feel like those rings are more like "yea we expected that to happen" its less of a deal in my opinion.