David Lee to accept the Knicks one-year qualifying for $2.7?

nyknicks09 · Post #16 » by **nyknicks09** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:52 am

That would be great if it really happens but it hurts the Knicks in the long run cause D.Lee will have the ball on his side of the court as to where he wants to sign and how much he wants to get pay. Trading him before the trade deadline is going to be hard because it will be a 1/2 season rental and many teams won't offer us anything good for him. Lets just say that LeBron James or D.Wade won't consider signing with the Knicks if D.Lee doesn't return with the Knicks and vice versa which puts us in a critical situation. A lot of teams are going to be under the cap in 2010 and the Bulls seem to be a team that can snatch Wade or LeBron James away if one of them stays with its current team.
LeBron James, Bosh, and D.Rose or Wade, Bosh, and D.Rose can become a dynasty for a long time. Is going to be an interesting summer in 2010 so lets just hope that Walsh can get E.Curry back on track and hopefully we can get rid of him for a expiring contract.

Post #17 » by **vinnie_vegas69** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:03 am

I'd be more than happy to have Nate back for this season and then just letting him walk next year.

This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Normally, teams renounce free agents' Bird rights to get more cap space, but because we'll be so far under the cap anyway, we can't actually afford to keep Lee's.

If we sign a max free agent, David Lee will probably want to re-sign anyway, so even after using our cap space, we could sign him over the cap with his Bird rights, and give him a decent chunk of change without worrying about jeopardising our cap space.

aq_ua · Post #18 » by **aq_ua** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:48 am

vinnie_vegas69 wrote:This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Perhaps kosmo or someone could clarify this point:

Larry Coon wrote:Larry Bird, following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract (Below the league average salary): 300% of his previous salary

Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie scale contract (Below the average salary): 200% of his previous salary

David Lee would be coming off his 5th year in the NBA, and based off the qualifying offer. Therefore, wouldn't it fall under the second type of Larry Bird rights and his salary cap hold count 200%, not 300%?

Post #19 » by **duetta** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:36 am

I have to think that Walsh presented a rough number to Lee's agent, and that the problem at the moment is that Lee has been led to believe that he's worth significantly more than that number. Lee would be still be better advised to take Walsh's offer, and include an opt-out that allows him to reset his value two or three seasons from now.

Ayonick07 · Post #20 » by **Ayonick07** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:50 am

I'm so glad walsh played his hand so smartly, just encouraging lee to get a deal himself and then as nothing came back AS YET lee remains without which opens up flexibility later on down the road. Hopefully he re-ups to a long term deal after he proves that he is worth the money again.

Post #21 » by **Luv those Knicks** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:43 am

aq_ua wrote:
vinnie_vegas69 wrote:This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Perhaps kosmo or someone could clarify this point:

Larry Coon wrote:Larry Bird, following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract (Below the league average salary): 300% of his previous salary

Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie scale contract (Below the average salary): 200% of his previous salary

David Lee would be coming off his 5th year in the NBA, and based off the qualifying offer. Therefore, wouldn't it fall under the second type of Larry Bird rights and his salary cap hold count 200%, not 300%?

I think it's 300%.

So, if NY wants to hold onto Lee's rights, he's an 8.1 million dollar cap hit next year.

The good news is, NY could wait, sign Lebron and then sign Lee for 10 million, so there is a small savings.

The bad news is, that means asking D.Lee to wait till after teams can negotiate with free agents, so it opens up Lee to the entire league, so maybe NY loses him.

Here's Larry Coon, search the website for "300" to find the link on Rookie contract cap holds. The site says "4th year" but I think they mean after the 5th year.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

kosmovitelli · Post #22 » by **kosmovitelli** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:17 pm

aq_ua wrote:
vinnie_vegas69 wrote:This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Perhaps kosmo or someone could clarify this point:

Larry Coon wrote:Larry Bird, following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract (Below the league average salary): 300% of his previous salary

Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie scale contract (Below the average salary): 200% of his previous salary

David Lee would be coming off his 5th year in the NBA, and based off the qualifying offer. Therefore, wouldn't it fall under the second type of Larry Bird rights and his salary cap hold count 200%, not 300%?

David Lee has a cap hold of :
- 300% this summer
- 200% next summer (if he accepts the qualifying offer)

sol537 · Post #23 » by **sol537** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:34 pm

Kosmo, can you break it down in terms of how beneficial it would be for us if Lee does accept the QO? Like, would he be worth more or less in a trade to other teams? Would it be in our best interest to play him big minutes to up his value or would it be better to limit him a bit? What about signing free agents in 2010 and how we could maneuver around that?

Pedro Pistolas · Post #24 » by **Pedro Pistolas** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:37 pm

blueNorange wrote:great, gimmick wonder is back ... sorry gallinari looks like you'll be getting ignored by the overrated elf once again.

2ThouTeninator · Post #25 » by **2ThouTeninator** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:57 pm

blueNorange wrote:great, gimmick wonder is back ... sorry gallinari looks like you'll be getting ignored by the overrated elf once again.

Nate did ignore Gallo. So did Duhon. Those two alone will set Gallinari back 2 years.

H3bto · Post #26 » by **H3bto** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:30 pm

i see Lee staying for cheap.

roy10 · Post #27 » by **roy10** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:46 pm

If Lee accept the QO, the Knicks should deal him with Jeffries for cap relief. I know a player on the QO has to give his consent to being dealt, but I'm sure Lee will give it if he realizes his minutes will be deeply cut for Hill and Darko.

Johnny Hoops · Post #28 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:02 pm

Luv those Knicks wrote:
aq_ua wrote:
vinnie_vegas69 wrote:This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Perhaps kosmo or someone could clarify this point:

Larry Coon wrote:Larry Bird, following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract (Below the league average salary): 300% of his previous salary

Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie scale contract (Below the average salary): 200% of his previous salary

David Lee would be coming off his 5th year in the NBA, and based off the qualifying offer. Therefore, wouldn't it fall under the second type of Larry Bird rights and his salary cap hold count 200%, not 300%?

I think it's 300%.

So, if NY wants to hold onto Lee's rights, he's an 8.1 million dollar cap hit next year.

The good news is, NY could wait, sign Lebron and then sign Lee for 10 million, so there is a small savings.

The bad news is, that means asking D.Lee to wait till after teams can negotiate with free agents, so it opens up Lee to the entire league, so maybe NY loses him.

Here's Larry Coon, search the website for "300" to find the link on Rookie contract cap holds. The site says "4th year" but I think they mean after the 5th year.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

But is his cap hold # (the $8.1M) just funny money?

I mean if we can still go out and sign a couple of free agents and than after the fact come back and sign Lee and Nate and go over the CAP -- doesn't that make the CAP hold # useless?

Can you clarify for me one more time?

Judah · Post #29 » by **Judah** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:09 pm

I'm cool with that as long as we resign him. He's going to be a very valuable player in this league for years to come. He gets better at something every year. I remember when he first came into the league and he really sucked at shooting free throws, and now i'm actually confident with him on the line. I like his heart and passion for the game. As for his defense, not everyone comes with the complete package but if we can make up for his defense with someone like J. Hill and just play as a team making up for each others weaknesses we'll be very good.

aq_ua · Post #30 » by **aq_ua** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:20 pm

kosmovitelli wrote:
aq_ua wrote:
vinnie_vegas69 wrote:This might actually work for Lee - He stays at the QO, then next off season, if we don't relinquish his Bird rights, he counts against the salary cap for 300% of his previous season's salary, which would be $8.04 million, which would still give us enough money to sign a max free agent (even presuming Curry and Jeffries are still on the books).

Perhaps kosmo or someone could clarify this point:

Larry Coon wrote:Larry Bird, following the fourth season of his rookie scale contract (Below the league average salary): 300% of his previous salary

Larry Bird, except when coming off rookie scale contract (Below the average salary): 200% of his previous salary

David Lee would be coming off his 5th year in the NBA, and based off the qualifying offer. Therefore, wouldn't it fall under the second type of Larry Bird rights and his salary cap hold count 200%, not 300%?

David Lee has a cap hold of :
- 300% this summer
- 200% next summer (if he accepts the qualifying offer)

That's the sense I got from reading Larry Coon's guide. In that case, David Lee would only count $5.2 million against the salary cap if we retained his Bird rights, which means we could easily sign a max free agent and then take advantage of his Bird Rights later. Perhaps that's what Walsh meant by some wiggle room in the 2010 cap space equation.

duhon-duhon · Post #31 » by **duhon-duhon** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:31 pm

Johnny Hoops wrote:
But is his cap hold # (the $8.1M) just funny money?

I mean if we can still go out and sign a couple of free agents and than after the fact come back and sign Lee and Nate and go over the CAP -- doesn't that make the CAP hold # useless?

Can you clarify for me one more time?

The cap hold prevents you from using that $8.1m (for example) to sign OTHER free agents.

Meaning if the cap is $50, you now have $41.9m to spend. Spend it all, and sign Lee to $12m, and you'd then be up at $53.9m, nearly $4 OVER the cap.

WITHOUT the cap hold, you could then spend $50m on other free agents, then sign Lee to $12, and be at $62m.

The cap hold is the difference between being able to spend $53.9m and $62m during the offseason.

Make sense?

Fat Kat · Post #32 » by **Fat Kat** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:37 pm

It's just my opinion, but I doubt Lee puts up the same numbers this year. He's in serious danger of really losing money if he doesn't sign a reasonable contract. What if Hill really pans out fast? What if Darko proves to be useful? What if Curry comes in ready to play? Too many question marks. Sign on the dotted line young man. 7.5 per.

StutterStep · Post #33 » by **StutterStep** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:38 pm

Lee and Nate are not going to take the QO from the Knicks. It does not make sense for them from a money or roster (playing time) point of view.

If they were lottery picks with 5mil plus QOs that might be different but those guys are not in the position to risk one year and hit the market next year. Plus, it does not help the Knicks for them to do that because next year, the Knicks will have to renounce their rights or risk losing on MAX player(s).

Clyde2 · Post #34 » by **Clyde2** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:51 pm

Fat Kat wrote:It's just my opinion, but I doubt Lee puts up the same numbers this year. He's in serious danger of really losing money if he doesn't sign a reasonable contract. What if Hill really pans out fast? What if Darko proves to be useful? What if Curry comes in ready to play? Too many question marks. Sign on the dotted line young man. 7.5 per.

FatKat your opinion is very wise. In the best possible scenario all three will happen. I agree Lee should accept a reasonalbe contract now. I would even go up to 9 million for 5 years with the belief Lee will continue to improve.

Esq-4 · Post #35 » by **Esq-4** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:05 pm

it would be a very dangerous game to take the QO when your contract is as low as Lee and Nates are. Almost so low that they would need some sort of guarantee they would be taken care of, but that can't be done, just calls for a lot of trust b/w player and management...which is possible with the CURRENT management.

For the Knicks, its ideal. The only risk is that they can walk next year, but they ran that risk this year to an extent i someone actually did offer him a 10-12mil deal. Or Nate a 7-8.

But, as always pointed out about the max players, there is an benefit to either resigning to the team w/ your bird rights or getting sign and traded, that being 10.5% raises, as opposed to 8%. And the extra year possibility.

While DLee might not want to only make 2=mil this year, only counting for 5+ mil next year would be great for us. We could either do what MIL did w/ Redd where they signed him last after using up the cap space, since if the bird rights are retained you can go over the cap, or use him in a s&t where he gets the bigger raises.

Look at Turk and Marion this year, both sign and traded without much (to the eye) going back to the other team.

Heck, maybe he can even make that money up in endorsements. well some.