SOUL wrote:I'm only replying to the parts I disagree with, because like I said, I ultimately do think AB should've got minutes over Fultz at the very least.MagicMatic wrote:Black was a top lotto pick. He had a very successful run in games he started early. There was little to no evidence Fultz or Cole were actually significantly better options than him outside of Mosely merely making the decision. That’s kinda a far cry from comparing Hendricks to earning minutes over guys like Markk and Collins. Not really a comparison if we are being honest.
Correction, WE had a good string of games as a team with him starting with 4 other people... he wasn't the main driver in those. If you want to claim that his presence in their helped settle other people down, sure. If you want to say his willingness to let the ball move more and his defense did a lot, sure. But the fact of the matter is, the bench was amazing during that stretch and we obviously still had Franz and Paolo and Suggs.
His FG%, threes made, and assists in our 9 game winning streak:
50% (2-4) / 1 three / 3 assists
60% (3-5) / 1 three / 3 assists
25% (1-4) / 0 threes / 3 assists
0% (0-1) / 0 threes / 0 assist
0% (0-1) / 0 threes / 1 assists
28% (2-7) / 0 threes / 1 assist
20% (1-5) / 0 threes / 1 assist
50% (1-2) / 0 threes / 0 assists
37% (3-8) / 0 threes / 2 assists
(14 total assists, 13 turnovers)
The only reason these string of games get pointed to is because it was our longest win streak, and correlation doesn't imply causation, otherwise, like I said, I can similarly point to a win streak last year with Bol Bol and Fultz and make a faulty argument based on that.
The arguments to play Cole and Gary are based on month long sample sizes of higher usage ball.
For Cole, he fell off a cliff iin January, but he was our best scorer off of the bench averaging around 15 ppg before that, and was vital to our hot start. Can create his own shot as a guard, which nobody outside of Suggs (who also didn't do it that much) was doing. That's why he played.
Gary had a 22 game stretch of around 50/40 ball with good defense in which we went 16-5. A lot of bad teams, but we were a bad team just a year ago. The stats were backing up the win-streak, and obviously he provided a need in three point shooting.
What people point to with Anthony Black and Goga is the 9 game winning streak, not random big games outside of that. You may disagree with everything I write, but you must acknowledge that most of the arguments to play them come from that streak. And in that 9 game sample size, Anthony Black was shooting 35% and has 2 three pointers in that stretch and is only a viable argument because the team won. Goga at least has the stats/advanced stats in his favor when it comes to the winning streak.
The reason why I'm bringing up Harris is that a lot of people want Black/Suggs as a backcourt and didn't want Harris playing at all.MagicMatic wrote:Anthony Black is better defensively than both CAN actually shoot the ball. That’s the difference.
We don't know this exactly, but his three point shot being better than advertised is promising. 1.6 a game isn't enough to sway me one way or another yet, but he's shown that he can at the very least hit threes when he's set up.
That being said...
Surely you can see the issue of Black being a PG that isn't shooting any threes off the dribble or attacking into the paint with any regularity, even in scrub minutes. If he has to be set up by Suggs, Franz, Paolo, don't you think that hampers his shooting ability and positional versatility of a guy drafted as point guard?
Then you can say, "Well, even if he isn't doing much out there, he keeps the ball moving and can be a great point of attack defender". Which, cool, but that benefit loses its allure a bit when you realize we already have a great POA defender in Suggs out there who is also hitting threes in volume, and you still need some juice out there.
I love the idea of Black and think he will be huge for us in the future. I've also said I thought he should be playing over Fultz because Fultz doesn't have a future here. But sometimes there are just specific things coaches value, I guess. Same reason why a lot of these washed up vets get minutes. Hell, we had Ben Gordon, Willie Green and others getting minutes while actively fielding a young team. Nick Nurse played Tobias Harris despite him retiring and fans at their wit's end with him.
A few things…
Do I believe AB is/was 100% ready to shoulder the load of being the starting point guard for this team? Not really.
However, I DID find it extremely annoying that the alternative to playing him was either starting Gary, low volume, Harris and a weird quasi rotation of Cole and Fultz that really did not work whatsoever post asb. Im just saying that I don’t think either of those options are insurmountably better than playing Black in EITHER the long or short term. Gary Harris coming off the bench in the second unit doesn’t sound bad in theory to be honest.
We can go back and forth forever talking about why and how that winning streak was successful and whether Black was either driving it’s success or just a very small part of it. That’s not really the point either way. It’s merely something to point to when we are considering whether Black is capable of belonging on the court. He proved that he belongs. If he never did, then I would agree with you wholesale… Knowing that he belongs just solidified people’s stance in wondering where tf he was in the rotation given his ability to guard and occasionally hit shots at 6’7.
Quick Aside to some of what you are talking about
I spent WAY too much time on this forum telling people Fultz should have been moved prior to this season. Like… I need to delete this account and reevaluate my life amounts of time. Had the FO just moved Fultz and not split his minutes with Cole (and benched Black) we would have been better off. Why? Because I’m not just looking at box scores. I’m looking at trends in player efficiency over the course of the season. Cole Anthony became a shell of himself when Fultz returned. That’s the reason as to why. There’s a direct correlation and it’s not even an argument. Cole didn’t even look like he was having fun since like February. He looked pissed off and going through the motions. Suggs alluded to this.. Black was also getting good reps in those extra minutes. It really fcked a lot up in the guard rotation and it was a completely unnecessary decision that should have been avoided.
Sorry for the Fultz veer off
However, it matters within the context of Anthony Black and this season. Harris MIGHT have been the better decision in the playoffs next to Suggs given the matchup. Not sure you or anyone can argue those Fultz/Cole minutes were good or should have ever happened. In the back of my mind I think AB could have guarded their back court better than either of those guys. Maybe I’m wrong. We will never know.
The beauty of the point guard spot this year next to Suggs or WHATEVER you want to call the latest iteration of Orlando’s back court… is that it made sense to Mosely to throw Gary out there regardless of whether or not he was hitting shots at extremely low volume. Anthony Black IS that guy too right now. He’s a playmaking low volume 5th option on offense you hide and can guard smaller guys. I’m not entirely sure why that kind of guy is riding the bench for either Fultz or Cole based on what we knew toward the end of the season. Even when Gary was out Mosely decided to NOT throw AB into the mix even when his skillset was perfect for it. Too bad he didn’t get any other minutes because Fultz returned and we needed “teammate of the year” instead I guess.
TLDR; it’s just kind of crazy to suggest the Black didn’t deserve many minutes this season when Orlando’s point guard rotation was SUSPECT. You have to back up your evidence that having Black out there NOT being able to shoot off the dribble is a bigger hindrance than being targeted on defense or shrinking the court to ridiculous levels.. Nevertheless, It’s not really comparable to other rookies sitting benched behind legitimate rotation guys that have no business being replaced with unknowns. You could absolutely make a case with Jett or any number of rookies being shelved. That just wasn’t the case with AB given the competition.
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