Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0

[pepe1991]

I don't think it's about "development" it's just about facing with new evidence and comming to conclusion that Black isn't PG, like 99,99% of "big PGs" aren't.

If you look around a league and go in past, big PGs simply don't work for one reason or another.

You can go to Ben Simmons (1# pick, Lebron comparisons) and his inability to score off pick&roll in any meaningful way but cuts made him predictable and pushed him out of PG position.

Josh Giddey , pretty much same problem, he is also bad on defense so he makes things even worst.

Livingston- guy was actually one of worst nba busts. Injury turned him into sympathetic figure and his Warriors years give second perspective on his career, but flushing 4th pick and passing on 3 allstars simply makes him one of worst busts.

Lonzo Ball - inability to play pick&roll and having no mid range game at one point moved him from PG position all together, going to Bulls he still couldn't run traditional pick&roll, and once again, like Livingston, now people remember him in nostalgic ways due his injuries. 6 players drafted after him turned into allstars. SIX. Including way more traditional PG - Fox.

MCW- worst ROY winner ever?

So who in modern era actually worked as tall PG ? Lebron, Harden and Luka. That's pretty much whole list. Top 2 player of all time and some of most talented players in past 30 years.


And it's not like NBA teams didn't try to find new , tall PGs, they just simply never worked. There is list of attemps i can remember:
Evan Turner (top 3 pick)
Tony Wroten
Bonga
Killian Hayes (top 5 pick)
Ty Jerome
Delon Wright


Thing is, PG position is most competitive position out there, guys who get to nba are near perfect in terms of skills, there is no single position in basketball with more talent but PG. You look at Jamal Murray, that guy is so damn skilled, and yet he isn't even top 5 player at his position, despite fact he ,on some nights is actually most skilled ( offensisve) player on court.

Theres actually 2 more on your list. Lamelo and Cade. If injuru bugs didnt hit them... who knows.

Lamelo yes, but Cade is yet to prove anything, Pistons have 54-192 record since winning lottery, that's path toward lowest win percentage for some team ever over span od 4 years.
Lamelo's defense is insult to pro basketball at times, so i don't know how his skillset will translate into winning basketball.

[RookieStar]

I don't think it's about "development" it's just about facing with new evidence and comming to conclusion that Black isn't PG, like 99,99% of "big PGs" aren't.

If you look around a league and go in past, big PGs simply don't work for one reason or another.

You can go to Ben Simmons (1# pick, Lebron comparisons) and his inability to score off pick&roll in any meaningful way but cuts made him predictable and pushed him out of PG position.

Josh Giddey , pretty much same problem, he is also bad on defense so he makes things even worst.

Livingston- guy was actually one of worst nba busts. Injury turned him into sympathetic figure and his Warriors years give second perspective on his career, but flushing 4th pick and passing on 3 allstars simply makes him one of worst busts.

Lonzo Ball - inability to play pick&roll and having no mid range game at one point moved him from PG position all together, going to Bulls he still couldn't run traditional pick&roll, and once again, like Livingston, now people remember him in nostalgic ways due his injuries. 6 players drafted after him turned into allstars. SIX. Including way more traditional PG - Fox.

MCW- worst ROY winner ever?

So who in modern era actually worked as tall PG ? Lebron, Harden and Luka. That's pretty much whole list. Top 2 player of all time and some of most talented players in past 30 years.


And it's not like NBA teams didn't try to find new , tall PGs, they just simply never worked. There is list of attemps i can remember:
Evan Turner (top 3 pick)
Tony Wroten
Bonga
Killian Hayes (top 5 pick)
Ty Jerome
Delon Wright


Thing is, PG position is most competitive position out there, guys who get to nba are near perfect in terms of skills, there is no single position in basketball with more talent but PG. You look at Jamal Murray, that guy is so damn skilled, and yet he isn't even top 5 player at his position, despite fact he ,on some nights is actually most skilled ( offensisve) player on court.

Theres actually 2 more on your list. Lamelo and Cade. If injuru bugs didnt hit them... who knows.

Lamelo yes, but Cade is yet to prove anything, Pistons have 54-192 record since winning lottery, that's path toward lowest win percentage for some team ever over span od 4 years.
Lamelo's defense is insult to pro basketball at times, so i don't know how his skillset will translate into winning basketball.

Well until this PO I also thought Luka was a matador instead of a basketball player with the way he plays defense so maybe if Lamelo has a better team and thinks he can win, he just plays lackadisical defense.

As to Cade, he needs to get out of there. His talents can be clearly seen but his team is letting him down.

[pepe1991]

Theres actually 2 more on your list. Lamelo and Cade. If injuru bugs didnt hit them... who knows.

Lamelo yes, but Cade is yet to prove anything, Pistons have 54-192 record since winning lottery, that's path toward lowest win percentage for some team ever over span od 4 years.
Lamelo's defense is insult to pro basketball at times, so i don't know how his skillset will translate into winning basketball.

Well until this PO I also thought Luka was a matador instead of a basketball player with the way he plays defense so maybe if Lamelo has a better team and thinks he can win, he just plays lackadisical defense.

As to Cade, he needs to get out of there. His talents can be clearly seen but his team is letting him down.

Luka played whole lot of competitive basketball before nba and was Euroleague's MVP so i knew he can play defense when it's needed.
It was just matter of energy given his offensive load, but last game vs OKC and whole Clippers both him and Kyrie played low key great defense.

Pistons are terrible from top to bottom, Cade has to be held accountable. You simply can't be 30% usage rate , 52% TS player.

Whole roster is built like it was autopilot.

[OrlChamps2030]

I don't think it's about "development" it's just about facing with new evidence and comming to conclusion that Black isn't PG, like 99,99% of "big PGs" aren't.

If you look around a league and go in past, big PGs simply don't work for one reason or another.

You can go to Ben Simmons (1# pick, Lebron comparisons) and his inability to score off pick&roll in any meaningful way but cuts made him predictable and pushed him out of PG position.

Josh Giddey , pretty much same problem, he is also bad on defense so he makes things even worst.

Livingston- guy was actually one of worst nba busts. Injury turned him into sympathetic figure and his Warriors years give second perspective on his career, but flushing 4th pick and passing on 3 allstars simply makes him one of worst busts.

Lonzo Ball - inability to play pick&roll and having no mid range game at one point moved him from PG position all together, going to Bulls he still couldn't run traditional pick&roll, and once again, like Livingston, now people remember him in nostalgic ways due his injuries. 6 players drafted after him turned into allstars. SIX. Including way more traditional PG - Fox.

MCW- worst ROY winner ever?

So who in modern era actually worked as tall PG ? Lebron, Harden and Luka. That's pretty much whole list. Top 2 player of all time and some of most talented players in past 30 years.


And it's not like NBA teams didn't try to find new , tall PGs, they just simply never worked. There is list of attemps i can remember:
Evan Turner (top 3 pick)
Tony Wroten
Bonga
Killian Hayes (top 5 pick)
Ty Jerome
Delon Wright


Thing is, PG position is most competitive position out there, guys who get to nba are near perfect in terms of skills, there is no single position in basketball with more talent but PG. You look at Jamal Murray, that guy is so damn skilled, and yet he isn't even top 5 player at his position, despite fact he ,on some nights is actually most skilled ( offensisve) player on court.

How could you forget about Tyreke Evans and realgm legend Dante Exum

All jokes aside, interesting observation and I believe it shows that “improving” ball handling and playmaking, especially to a PG level, is just extremely rare.

Our season ended less than a week ago and we are already going through the hopium phase where we hope a young player develops a skill set he’s never shown before

[Skybox]

This might be unpopular to a lot of you but i think AB path forward is more Jingles type playmaker rather than a Guard playmaker...

I was thinking the same thing. Ingles leaving might be much more significant than Fultz for AB’s opportunity. Ingles showed infinitely more setup and PnR mentality than anyone on the roster, but he’s never been labeled as a “PG”…First of all, the roles on ORL are completely unconventional (due to P&F being 6’10 iso ball handlers). Calling AB a PG is just wishful thinking…it comes from hope, not any NBA evidence…a guy who was, supposedly, a PG all his life doesn’t frantically look to get it out of his hands so quickly and without offensive benefit…if we’re saying “rookie nerves”, that sure doesn’t say PG to me either. He’s big enough and competent defensively enough to move around, which could really work for this team. But, imo, writing him in as “PG” just because it says that on his trading card is a non-starter…PGs are kind of born, not made- I don’t think we’ve seen enough evidence to count on “development “ just changing his whole player profile.

Being like Ingles is a really good thing…especially with defense. That’s a much more realistic, but still hopeful, possibility than thinking he’s going to morph into some ball-dominant Penny Hardaway-type.

*EDIT: looking at Pepe’s post…Evan Turner might be a really good comp. Not really a PG, but a bigger wing who could handle some, distribute, defend, a Swiss-army knife guy. Turner couldn’t shoot 3’s, but he could contribute in many ways. AB might be more Turner or even Hedo-ish, eventually, than a starter at PG.

[Knightro]

Growth factors:

Suggs/Franz/Paolo development
Klay/AB/Jett replacing Harris/Ingles/Fultz
Don't really see any internal headwinds.

I agree that Paolo, Franz and Suggs should all continue to get better, but I’m not sure any of the three are going to improve as playmakers (this is specific to next season) to the point where the Magic still wouldn’t be better off acquiring an actual point guard.

I’m not convinced Klay/AB/Jett replacing Harris/Ingles/Fultz is going to be a net positive next season either.

And lastly, the Magic were also extremely healthy this year, especially compared to every other East team in the top 10. What happens next year if they suffer a more “normal” amount of injuries?

[Skybox]

Just wondering…is Capela good? Would he be a better fit with Paolo & Franz than WCJ? I’m more familiar with his “profile” than the actual player. I’m not suggesting a 1 for 1 trade, but ATL has a lot of intriguing guys, a ton of payroll, and a ton of discord and disappointment. They WILL be active this summer. Even if it were a somewhat lateral value (but different looking) move at C, it could be a means towards putting together a BIG upgrade at G.

I love Murray, Bogi, Griffin as potential adds to varying degrees and maybe a Capela/WCJ swap sweetens the deal for one or two of them…it saves ATL significant payroll, they get younger and much more versatile too. I don’t see ATL jumping for picks, unless there’s another deal on the launch pad or a 3-way. One that I like for ATL is signing Miles Bridges. He and Jalen Johnson on the wings with Trae would be potent. As long as Trae is there, win-now players would likely be their hope. Weaponizing our cap space is probably our greatest trade asset this summer.

[I Rasharted]

I'm on Team Eyriq when it comes to AB. Playmaking or not, I like his impact on the game. He's got It:

Watch on YouTube

Dorothy Gish.

Anyway, I'm assuming Black's gonna get a chance to show us more of what he can do next year, in some sort of role.

[I Rasharted]

What I expect:

Suggs|Klay|Franz|Paolo|WCJ
AB|Cole|Jett|JI|Moritz

This feels pretty realistic to me. Although until he’s not, I expect Cole to be on the basketball with the 2nd unit.

Unfortunately, I don’t think this team is significantly better, and maybe worse, than this year’s group.

Growth factors:

Suggs/Franz/Paolo development
Klay/AB/Jett replacing Harris/Ingles/Fultz
Don't really see any internal headwinds.

This would be a very on-brand Orlando Magic offseason and is probably the likeliest outcome. Meh.

[basketballRob]

I think Ingles will be back and possibly Harris on a lower deal.

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[Skybox]

ORL sends : WCJ, Cole, Jett, ORL 26 frp, Den 25 frp, ORL 28 frp
ORL lets Ingles, Fultz, Okeke, Harris, Goga walk, basically weaponizing all of its cap space to facilitate trade by taking back salary

ATL sends: Capela, Murray, Bogi, Griffin
ATL clears a ton of salary, signs Miles Bridges, adds frps, commits to Trae-centric lineup, gets younger

WCJ, Fernando
Bridges, Okongwu
Jalen Johnson, Hunter
Bey, Jett
Trae, Cole, Bufkin

High-flying, floor spreading lineup with Trae orchestrating a squad of multi-positional wings, Bridges revisits the near All-Star chemistry he had with Lamelo. Big, sweet shooting wings next to Trae.

Capela, M. Wagner, Bamba (I said it vet minimum)
Paolo, Isaac
Franz, Griffin, Houstan
Suggs, Bogi, #18 Terrence Shannon?
Murray, Black, Kris Dunn (or similar vet min)

Shorter, far more lethal rotation, but still high-upside developmental guys in AB and Shannon. Ready to contend. Actually much improved on BOTH ends of the court

[Skybox]

I think Ingles will be back and possibly Harris on a lower deal.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Probably…that would indicate no more than one serious move…could still be effective, just hoping for more. I could see a contender snagging a discounted Harris if he’s looking at a deeper bench role in ORL. Ingles is nice to have but not for the money…hopefully, we put it to more impactful use, but if we don’t…welcome back mate.

[RichCollab]

ORL sends : WCJ, Cole, Jett, ORL 26 frp, Den 25 frp, ORL 28 frp
ORL lets Ingles, Fultz, Okeke, Harris, Goga walk, basically weaponizing all of its cap space to facilitate trade by taking back salary

ATL sends: Capela, Murray, Bogi, Griffin
ATL clears a ton of salary, signs Miles Bridges, adds frps, commits to Trae-centric lineup, gets younger

WCJ, Fernando
Bridges, Okongwu
Jalen Johnson, Hunter
Bey, Jett
Trae, Cole, Bufkin

High-flying, floor spreading lineup with Trae orchestrating a squad of multi-positional wings, Bridges revisits the near All-Star chemistry he had with Lamelo. Big, sweet shooting wings next to Trae.

Capela, M. Wagner, Bamba (I said it vet minimum)
Paolo, Isaac
Franz, Griffin, Houstan
Suggs, Bogi, #18 Terrence Shannon?
Murray, Black, Kris Dunn (or similar vet min)

Shorter, far more lethal rotation, but still high-upside developmental guys in AB and Shannon. Ready to contend. Actually much improved on BOTH ends of the court

Throws up. Keep ATL players away. Add 1 at the most. They have played a bad brand of basketball and adding that many would have influence on our brand.

[eyriq]

And lastly, the Magic were also extremely healthy this year, especially compared to every other East team in the top 10. What happens next year if they suffer a more “normal” amount of injuries?

Being injury prone is a headwind I didn't consider. WCJ and JI have availability issues. AB and Jett will improve here over Harris and Fultz. Klay has been ok the last two seasons. I think net we improve here, too.

[Skybox]

ORL sends : WCJ, Cole, Jett, ORL 26 frp, Den 25 frp, ORL 28 frp
ORL lets Ingles, Fultz, Okeke, Harris, Goga walk, basically weaponizing all of its cap space to facilitate trade by taking back salary

ATL sends: Capela, Murray, Bogi, Griffin
ATL clears a ton of salary, signs Miles Bridges, adds frps, commits to Trae-centric lineup, gets younger

WCJ, Fernando
Bridges, Okongwu
Jalen Johnson, Hunter
Bey, Jett
Trae, Cole, Bufkin

High-flying, floor spreading lineup with Trae orchestrating a squad of multi-positional wings, Bridges revisits the near All-Star chemistry he had with Lamelo. Big, sweet shooting wings next to Trae.

Capela, M. Wagner, Bamba (I said it vet minimum)
Paolo, Isaac
Franz, Griffin, Houstan
Suggs, Bogi, #18 Terrence Shannon?
Murray, Black, Kris Dunn (or similar vet min)

Shorter, far more lethal rotation, but still high-upside developmental guys in AB and Shannon. Ready to contend. Actually much improved on BOTH ends of the court

Throws up. Keep ATL players away. Add 1 at the most. They have played a bad brand of basketball and adding that many would have influence on our brand.

Our brand, at the moment, is "Score 85 points"

Sorry about the nausea...I get that a lot reading posts here too.

Everything ATL does is Trae-centric...my proposal extracts the guys that don't fit. Obviously way too big a deal, but Murray and Capela's defensive mindsets wouldn't set back our "brand". Bogi is just a smart, skilled vet that expressed displeasure in the brand of basketball you described being played by ATL, in his exit interview...so maybe he's on the block even though he shouldn't be. Ironically, ATL respondees like our brand too because they want Isaac and Suggs.

[RichCollab]

ORL sends : WCJ, Cole, Jett, ORL 26 frp, Den 25 frp, ORL 28 frp
ORL lets Ingles, Fultz, Okeke, Harris, Goga walk, basically weaponizing all of its cap space to facilitate trade by taking back salary

ATL sends: Capela, Murray, Bogi, Griffin
ATL clears a ton of salary, signs Miles Bridges, adds frps, commits to Trae-centric lineup, gets younger

WCJ, Fernando
Bridges, Okongwu
Jalen Johnson, Hunter
Bey, Jett
Trae, Cole, Bufkin

High-flying, floor spreading lineup with Trae orchestrating a squad of multi-positional wings, Bridges revisits the near All-Star chemistry he had with Lamelo. Big, sweet shooting wings next to Trae.

Capela, M. Wagner, Bamba (I said it vet minimum)
Paolo, Isaac
Franz, Griffin, Houstan
Suggs, Bogi, #18 Terrence Shannon?
Murray, Black, Kris Dunn (or similar vet min)

Shorter, far more lethal rotation, but still high-upside developmental guys in AB and Shannon. Ready to contend. Actually much improved on BOTH ends of the court

Throws up. Keep ATL players away. Add 1 at the most. They have played a bad brand of basketball and adding that many would have influence on our brand.

Our brand, at the moment, is "Score 85 points"

Sorry about the nausea...I get that a lot reading posts here too.

Everything ATL does is Trae-centric...my proposal extracts the guys that don't fit. Obviously way too big a deal, but Murray and Capela's defensive mindsets wouldn't set back our "brand". Bogi is just a smart, skilled vet that expressed displeasure in the brand of basketball you described being played by ATL, in his exit interview...so maybe he's on the block even though he shouldn't be. Ironically, ATL respondees like our brand too because they want Isaac and Suggs.

Give me some one like Josh Hart over anyone on ATL.

Defense and physicality is our DNA. Mose and Weltman aren’t going to sacrifice that.

This has been my favorite season in a decade. Give me more please.

[Skybox]

Throws up. Keep ATL players away. Add 1 at the most. They have played a bad brand of basketball and adding that many would have influence on our brand.

Our brand, at the moment, is "Score 85 points"

Sorry about the nausea...I get that a lot reading posts here too.

Everything ATL does is Trae-centric...my proposal extracts the guys that don't fit. Obviously way too big a deal, but Murray and Capela's defensive mindsets wouldn't set back our "brand". Bogi is just a smart, skilled vet that expressed displeasure in the brand of basketball you described being played by ATL, in his exit interview...so maybe he's on the block even though he shouldn't be. Ironically, ATL respondees like our brand too because they want Isaac and Suggs.

Give me some one like Josh Hart over anyone on ATL.

Defense and physicality is our DNA. Mose and Weltman aren’t going to sacrifice that.

This has been my favorite season in a decade. Give me more please.

Swell...me too. Josh Hart's not available. I'd like a lot of guys that aren't available without breaking up our core.

*Josh Hart was an afterthought in POR, we could have gotten him for next to nothing Same with Dante - another hard-nosed, versatile winning player I wanted.

Murray might be available. Bogi might be.

[basketballRob]

I think Ingles will be back and possibly Harris on a lower deal.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Probably…that would indicate no more than one serious move…could still be effective, just hoping for more. I could see a contender snagging a discounted Harris if he’s looking at a deeper bench role in ORL. Ingles is nice to have but not for the money…hopefully, we put it to more impactful use, but if we don’t…welcome back mate.

That would still give us around $26m to offer to Klay. Klay, Ingles, and Gary would be good vets for the young players.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Skybox]

I think Ingles will be back and possibly Harris on a lower deal.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Probably…that would indicate no more than one serious move…could still be effective, just hoping for more. I could see a contender snagging a discounted Harris if he’s looking at a deeper bench role in ORL. Ingles is nice to have but not for the money…hopefully, we put it to more impactful use, but if we don’t…welcome back mate.

That would still give us around $26m to offer to Klay. Klay, Ingles, and Gary would be good vets for the young players.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Other than potential bigger trade gets (like Murray) and if we're not giving up assets:

...I'd be excited about Monk for $20-22m per and Tyus for $17m-18m. I don't know if Tyus would consider the third guard role, but he could still get substantial minutes with both Suggs and Monk. Descending deals always preferred if we can afford it. This would also take Cole out of the rotation - it would be interesting to see what he could bring back...maybe some frontcourt depth or even just a pick and expiring salary? IF Monk were moved for only a pick, we could keep Ingles, but I'd prefer to get a younger prospect with that slot.

[Knightro]

I think Ingles will be back and possibly Harris on a lower deal.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Probably…that would indicate no more than one serious move…could still be effective, just hoping for more. I could see a contender snagging a discounted Harris if he’s looking at a deeper bench role in ORL. Ingles is nice to have but not for the money…hopefully, we put it to more impactful use, but if we don’t…welcome back mate.

That would still give us around $26m to offer to Klay. Klay, Ingles, and Gary would be good vets for the young players.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Not entirely sure how you expect Black or Jett to play if the Magic bring on Klay *and* retain Gary and Ingles.