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Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0

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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#461 » by basketballRob » Tue May 14, 2024 4:41 pm

QMemphis wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:
Moves like this arent going to move the needle enough, imo. Unless hes going to be a bench shooter to give you 18-22 mins.

What you gain in shooting/spacing, you may well lose in defence/playmaking.

We need a scoring guard who can initiate. Doesnt have to be a point guard per se (tho that would help) but needs to be someone who can shoulder initiation responsibility. To me they should be capable of scoring at all 3 levels, even if they may not be great at all 3.

They can be the defensive weak link, but not a sieve that busts open the defensive scheme.

If not totally team first, they should at least not be all about themselves and personal stats and hopefully come from somewhere with PO experience.

Thats my shopping list anyway.

You absolutely grab him as your 2nd FA signing after landing Hartenstein or Claxton. Then trade WCJ/Cole+18 for a guard. Oh man 2K is fun


We likely will accept Luke’s team option. No centers on the market we like will be available for the Mle. Luke on that contract still is good value as a bench sniper.
The report says they won't. Plus, his salary puts you over the tax threshold. My guess is they'll just use a portion of the MLE to sign a center. Starting at around $8m

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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#462 » by Knightro » Tue May 14, 2024 4:50 pm

IMO the Pelicans are interested in moving on Ingram for a variety of reasons that aren't necessarily tied to his basketball ability.

1. They don't want to pay the luxury tax for a non-title contender.

2. They don't feel like the CJ/BI/Zion combo can stay healthy enough.

3. Ingram is the closest of the three to free agency.

I'm not saying the Magic should get him or will get him, but he's a good basketball player.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#463 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue May 14, 2024 4:56 pm

basketballRob wrote:
QMemphis wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:You absolutely grab him as your 2nd FA signing after landing Hartenstein or Claxton. Then trade WCJ/Cole+18 for a guard. Oh man 2K is fun


We likely will accept Luke’s team option. No centers on the market we like will be available for the Mle. Luke on that contract still is good value as a bench sniper.
The report says they won't. Plus, his salary puts you over the tax threshold. My guess is they'll just use a portion of the MLE to sign a center. Starting at around $8m

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Goga would be a solid get for them honestly
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#464 » by Black and Blue » Tue May 14, 2024 5:29 pm

Knightro wrote:I think everyone can agree the Magic need more playmaking. That isn't really up for a whole lot of debate.

Whether that's through external additions or just development of Paolo and Franz, I think everyone would pretty much unanimously agree that more ball movement, better passing, fewer turnovers are all paramount for this team offensively.

I think where the road diverges for some is specifically *how* that happens, especially when it comes to the player acquisition front.

A lot of people understandably believe that the Magic need a lead guard to improve the playmaking. That is the most clear and obvious deficiency on the roster and it appears there will be several possibilities on that front, both via trade and free agency.

My push back on that is this...

Does it have to be a point guard?

Brandon Ingram and Paul George are both A+ playmakers on the wing. Ingram in particular was 24th in the entire NBA in APG. You narrow it down to non guards and Ingram was 5th in the NBA behind Jokic, LeBron, Sabonis and Giannis.

He's a great playmaking wing, one of the best in the league, and would immediately join this roster as the best playmaker for others on the entire team. Given his age and experience, he's a much better playmaker than Paolo or Franz (for the time being, maybe they surpass him as they get older).

On top of that, he can score 25 a night and give a sometimes punchless offense some more juice that someone like a Tyus Jones wouldn't be able to provide.

All I'm saying is that if the opportunity presents itself to add a great playmaker to the team and the cost isn't prohibative, I am willing to consider it and perhaps even jump on it even if that player isn't a traditional point guard.


Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#465 » by basketballRob » Tue May 14, 2024 5:46 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
QMemphis wrote:
We likely will accept Luke’s team option. No centers on the market we like will be available for the Mle. Luke on that contract still is good value as a bench sniper.
The report says they won't. Plus, his salary puts you over the tax threshold. My guess is they'll just use a portion of the MLE to sign a center. Starting at around $8m

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Goga would be a solid get for them honestly
We don't want to start that rumor. I'd rather keep him here.

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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#466 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue May 14, 2024 5:49 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
basketballRob wrote:The report says they won't. Plus, his salary puts you over the tax threshold. My guess is they'll just use a portion of the MLE to sign a center. Starting at around $8m

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Goga would be a solid get for them honestly
We don't want to start that rumor. I'd rather keep him here.

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he'd be dumb to stay here but we will see what happens
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#467 » by Knightro » Tue May 14, 2024 5:54 pm

Black and Blue wrote:Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.


This made me really curious, so I did the research really quickly.

In games where the Magic committed MORE or THE SAME amount of turnovers as their opponent: 13-21 record
In games where the Magic committed FEWER turnovers than their opponent: 34-14 record
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#468 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue May 14, 2024 6:12 pm

Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.


This made me really curious, so I did the research really quickly.

In games where the Magic committed MORE or THE SAME amount of turnovers as their opponent: 13-21 record
In games where the Magic committed FEWER turnovers than their opponent: 34-14 record


it really makes sense though, especially with us being offensively challenged. Can't give opposing team more opportunities/possessions. I'd like to imagine when we get out rebounded, we probably have a losing record as well.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#469 » by bigdogdylan5 » Tue May 14, 2024 6:19 pm

Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.


This made me really curious, so I did the research really quickly.

In games where the Magic committed MORE or THE SAME amount of turnovers as their opponent: 13-21 record
In games where the Magic committed FEWER turnovers than their opponent: 34-14 record

Kinda why I think the biggest need for the Magic is a low turnover experienced point guard to stabilize. I mean turnovers should go down as team gets more experienced but Paolo has the ball in his hands way too much. Suggs and Black are both good but they will both be relatively high turnover guys until they get more point guard experience. You need someone to take the Fultz role while not being a literal 0 shooting. Chris Paul is interesting for this. Tyus Jones also comes to mind.
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I am high on Markelle Fultz. Yes I understand he is not perfect and needs to shoot more and better and turn the ball over less. I would really like to see him play one more year… and I did and he sucks time to move on.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#470 » by eyriq » Tue May 14, 2024 6:45 pm

Black and Blue wrote:
Knightro wrote:I think everyone can agree the Magic need more playmaking. That isn't really up for a whole lot of debate.

Whether that's through external additions or just development of Paolo and Franz, I think everyone would pretty much unanimously agree that more ball movement, better passing, fewer turnovers are all paramount for this team offensively.

I think where the road diverges for some is specifically *how* that happens, especially when it comes to the player acquisition front.

A lot of people understandably believe that the Magic need a lead guard to improve the playmaking. That is the most clear and obvious deficiency on the roster and it appears there will be several possibilities on that front, both via trade and free agency.

My push back on that is this...

Does it have to be a point guard?

Brandon Ingram and Paul George are both A+ playmakers on the wing. Ingram in particular was 24th in the entire NBA in APG. You narrow it down to non guards and Ingram was 5th in the NBA behind Jokic, LeBron, Sabonis and Giannis.

He's a great playmaking wing, one of the best in the league, and would immediately join this roster as the best playmaker for others on the entire team. Given his age and experience, he's a much better playmaker than Paolo or Franz (for the time being, maybe they surpass him as they get older).

On top of that, he can score 25 a night and give a sometimes punchless offense some more juice that someone like a Tyus Jones wouldn't be able to provide.

All I'm saying is that if the opportunity presents itself to add a great playmaker to the team and the cost isn't prohibative, I am willing to consider it and perhaps even jump on it even if that player isn't a traditional point guard.


Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.
Sounds like he knows what he's talking about
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#471 » by Black and Blue » Tue May 14, 2024 6:51 pm

Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.


This made me really curious, so I did the research really quickly.

In games where the Magic committed MORE or THE SAME amount of turnovers as their opponent: 13-21 record
In games where the Magic committed FEWER turnovers than their opponent: 34-14 record


Wow there you go! Thanks for hunting down this stat amigo. My buddy will be happy (but knowing him, unsurprised) at the stats behind this.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#472 » by Knightro » Tue May 14, 2024 7:02 pm

Black and Blue wrote:Wow there you go! Thanks for hunting down this stat amigo. My buddy will be happy (but knowing him, unsurprised) at the stats behind this.


Like any other season-long tracking stat, there were some glaring outliers within the data too.

The Magic turned the ball over 20 times against Detroit's 13 on March 3, but still won by 22 points.

The Magic turned the ball over 18 times to Boston's 14 on November 24, but still won by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 8 times against Boston's 14 on December 17, but lost by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 10 times against Charlotte's 18 on April 5, but lost by 9 points.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#473 » by Black and Blue » Tue May 14, 2024 7:02 pm

eyriq wrote:Sounds like he knows what he's talking about


Hahah. Oh you have no idea, bud. It's such a mixed feeling watching games with him because I feel like such a moron with my observations, but I also learn so much.

Defense especially he calls out who failed to help, which disguised looks the offense was giving to free up certain players, who can't stay on the court because they are liabilities...it gave me a whole new appreciation for the MENTAL level these players are at. It also answered pretty much every question as to how Jett Howard and AB couldn't be given much playing time this season for the sheer level of knowledge they had to pick up.

I asked my friend who his favorite player to watch on the Magic was, expecting him to say Paolo or Suggs or something. His response:

"Oh my goodness it's totally Joe Ingles. He is like an old school player-coach out there, who CLEARLY can barely move anymore but is like a crude, foul-mouthed Master Splinter trying to impart wisdom on the ninja turtles around him in real time during games. When he does anything even remotely positive, like hit a contested three pointer, the whole team goes berserk because they are all students at his dojo."

He added that he felt the team went as far as it did this season because every article and interview he saw with Joe Ingles was him saying his role on the team was to tell these kids they need short memories. Win or lose yesterday, ignore it and be your best self today. That is a playoff mentality that takes years to learn but they hard a season-long lesson in mastering it.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#474 » by three3d » Tue May 14, 2024 7:05 pm

Isaiah Joe would be nice and maybe the price wouldn’t be to high. His last 2 seasons he’s been at 41% 3 point field goal percentage on 394 attempts in 22-23 and 353 attempts this season.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#475 » by Black and Blue » Tue May 14, 2024 7:06 pm

Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Wow there you go! Thanks for hunting down this stat amigo. My buddy will be happy (but knowing him, unsurprised) at the stats behind this.


Like any other season-long tracking stat, there were some glaring outliers within the data too.

The Magic turned the ball over 20 times against Detroit's 13 on March 3, but still won by 22 points.

The Magic turned the ball over 18 times to Boston's 14 on November 24, but still won by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 8 times against Boston's 14 on December 17, but lost by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 10 times against Charlotte's 18 on April 5, but lost by 9 points.


Oh absolutely. It would be interesting to see if those games they happened to have outliers in other categories as well, like FT %, or 3 point attempts and makes. His larger point was that he (and more importantly the league) knew who this team was by the All Star Break, and for them to win they would either need to limit turnovers or have some otherwise insane game where another surprising stat would overrule it. Since you can't count on the latter, they needed to focus on the former.

I'll also add that an underrated aspect of this team was surrounding turnover-prone Paolo with hyper-efficient players. He said efficiency and turnovers are not to be overlooked when trying to predict who the Magic will target this offseason.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#476 » by Black and Blue » Tue May 14, 2024 7:08 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Story time!

I have a friend who leaves and breathes basketball. He contributes regularly to NBA podcasts and his every waking moment is consumed by watching as many games as possible. He is one of those "I'm watching 5 games at once" types on a given night.

Anyways, he knows I love the Magic and late this past season I asked him to do a deep dive on the Magic and what he thought of them. A lot of his observations were rather run of the mill: Paolo is the player we need to build around. Franz is solid and efficient but his current game is extremely limited (he keeps saying Franz needs an offseason to round out his game so defenses can't shut him down as easily but never has time to work on it). That their floor spacing is abysmal but their defense is some of the best coached he has seen in a while. All that aside, he said something to me one day that reshaped the whole way I watched the Magic from the All Star Break on:

"The Magic are so good defensively, that THE stat to watch every single night and WILL determine whether they win or lose: Turnovers.

He told me to ignore 3 point attempts and percentage, ignore free throws (which was hard to do but I acquiesced), and try to avoid asking daily how in the world Gary Harris was still in the starting lineup. He said the Magic were young, and thus prone to a ton of turnovers. They wound up 7th WORST in the league, surrounded by teams that were in the lottery. But if they could just hold that single stat in check enough to be even close to their opponent, they would win.

It really changed my worldview. While posters were hooting and hollering about shooting and playmaking, I was cringing with every bad pass that went out of bounds, every offensive foul, every steal from Wendell Carter's injured hands. And you know what? It was insane how correct he was. We'd watch games together and if the Magic were careless with the ball early he would proclaim the game a loss unless they buttoned turnovers up (even against abysmal teams).

Cue the postseason. The Magic were playing the Cavs and he observed that for all their issues, Coach Moseley had done a magnificent job preparing the team. He said with how much the Magic were clicking on all cylinders, they would be second round-bound unless one thing happened: They'd narrowly lose in a 7 game series if Paolo Banchero led the entire NBA in turnovers.

Now a ton of things contribute to a loss, and Franz going 1-15 can't be ignored, but I'll be damned if Paolo Banchero didn't lead all postseason rosters with turnovers.

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/player/_/stat/turnovers/table/offensive/sort/avgTurnovers/dir/desc

Now the good news: My friend said Paolo is a future monster, to a point where that one turnover stat is the only thing holding him back. He is SUPER high on the Magic, as replacing the dead weight with actual players and working with Paolo is now significantly easier as they have identified his kryptonite, which is unsurprisingly the team's as well. He is less high on Franz, but said if they get a solid #2 they really could win the championship.


This made me really curious, so I did the research really quickly.

In games where the Magic committed MORE or THE SAME amount of turnovers as their opponent: 13-21 record
In games where the Magic committed FEWER turnovers than their opponent: 34-14 record

Kinda why I think the biggest need for the Magic is a low turnover experienced point guard to stabilize. I mean turnovers should go down as team gets more experienced but Paolo has the ball in his hands way too much. Suggs and Black are both good but they will both be relatively high turnover guys until they get more point guard experience. You need someone to take the Fultz role while not being a literal 0 shooting. Chris Paul is interesting for this. Tyus Jones also comes to mind.


You hit the nail on the head.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#477 » by eyriq » Tue May 14, 2024 8:03 pm

Black and Blue wrote:
eyriq wrote:Sounds like he knows what he's talking about


Hahah. Oh you have no idea, bud. It's such a mixed feeling watching games with him because I feel like such a moron with my observations, but I also learn so much.

Defense especially he calls out who failed to help, which disguised looks the offense was giving to free up certain players, who can't stay on the court because they are liabilities...it gave me a whole new appreciation for the MENTAL level these players are at. It also answered pretty much every question as to how Jett Howard and AB couldn't be given much playing time this season for the sheer level of knowledge they had to pick up.

I asked my friend who his favorite player to watch on the Magic was, expecting him to say Paolo or Suggs or something. His response:

"Oh my goodness it's totally Joe Ingles. He is like an old school player-coach out there, who CLEARLY can barely move anymore but is like a crude, foul-mouthed Master Splinter trying to impart wisdom on the ninja turtles around him in real time during games. When he does anything even remotely positive, like hit a contested three pointer, the whole team goes berserk because they are all students at his dojo."

He added that he felt the team went as far as it did this season because every article and interview he saw with Joe Ingles was him saying his role on the team was to tell these kids they need short memories. Win or lose yesterday, ignore it and be your best self today. That is a playoff mentality that takes years to learn but they hard a season-long lesson in mastering it.
The ultimate test; what does he think about Anthony Black?
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#478 » by Knightro » Tue May 14, 2024 8:05 pm

three3d wrote:Isaiah Joe would be nice and maybe the price wouldn’t be to high. His last 2 seasons he’s been at 41% 3 point field goal percentage on 394 attempts in 22-23 and 353 attempts this season.


Joe is great, but he's under contract for next season at just $2.16M.

There's no way OKC will part with a guy making that little and producing that much.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#479 » by MagicMatic » Tue May 14, 2024 8:08 pm

Black and Blue wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Black and Blue wrote:Wow there you go! Thanks for hunting down this stat amigo. My buddy will be happy (but knowing him, unsurprised) at the stats behind this.


Like any other season-long tracking stat, there were some glaring outliers within the data too.

The Magic turned the ball over 20 times against Detroit's 13 on March 3, but still won by 22 points.

The Magic turned the ball over 18 times to Boston's 14 on November 24, but still won by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 8 times against Boston's 14 on December 17, but lost by 17 points.

The Magic only turned the ball over 10 times against Charlotte's 18 on April 5, but lost by 9 points.


Oh absolutely. It would be interesting to see if those games they happened to have outliers in other categories as well, like FT %, or 3 point attempts and makes. His larger point was that he (and more importantly the league) knew who this team was by the All Star Break, and for them to win they would either need to limit turnovers or have some otherwise insane game where another surprising stat would overrule it. Since you can't count on the latter, they needed to focus on the former.

I'll also add that an underrated aspect of this team was surrounding turnover-prone Paolo with hyper-efficient players. He said efficiency and turnovers are not to be overlooked when trying to predict who the Magic will target this offseason.


It was never about strictly 3 point shooting and %.

It was always about creating more efficient shots, ball movement, and protection.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 5.0 

Post#480 » by Skin » Tue May 14, 2024 8:08 pm

I Rasharted wrote:
Skin wrote:You guys willing to give up Suggs or Franz for Ingram?

Not even I would trade Suggs for Ingram. Fit don't make no sense.

Yeah, my point is that it doesn't make sense for NOR either. They aren't trading him for Wendell Carter, Cole Anthony and our DEN 1st hahaha :lol:

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