Overarching 2024 goal, what should it be?

[drsd]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

Minus the "rebuilding" part, I totally agree. Let's play the what-if game and nba2k trade Anthony and G-Harris for Luke Kennard. This leads to:

Fultz/Black/some dude
Kennard/Suggs/Howard
F-Wagner/Ingles/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner/Bitadze

That is an, if healthy, balanced roster that will win games in the East and vie for a playoff slot. Importantly it also sets the team forward for future growth.

My hope is that the Magic brass make that sort of move at the trade deadline. Meaning that G-Harris and Anthony's roles are to prepare Black and Howard for the early jitters in their respective NBA careers.

[zaymon]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

Except its common knowledge that youth develop best when there is mixture of youth and veterans ?

[Knightro]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

This is our disconnect.

If this was an actual rebuilding team still, they wouldn't have retained Gary, they wouldn't have signed Ingles and they wouldn't have opted to keep both Cole and Markelle.

They willingly created this logjam. And why would they decide to do that?

If you want to believe it's because they wanted to retain those players as future potential trade assets, that's certainly your prerogative.

But it's pretty obvious to me that they want those players to actually play rotation minutes because they want to take another step forward record wise..

[eyriq]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

Except its common knowledge that youth develop best when there is mixture of youth and veterans ?

If that's common knowledge why didn't it apply to us last year?

[zaymon]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

Except its common knowledge that youth develop best when there is mixture of youth and veterans ?

If that's common knowledge why didn't it apply to us last year?

Regarding veterans we had Lopez, Harris. Now we have both Harris and Ingles so the strategy is constant through the years.
This year is different becouse our rebuild is long enough that we have many ( maybe too many) young players. We still delayed that moment by trading multiple picks ( everyone was so angry that we traded too many picks and now everybody is angry we traded too less lol).
Some players will stay with us, some we will not retain. Not a pleasant moment in our development but a moment we must endure.
Teams like Denver also had this moment and did some mistakes like trading Donovan for scraps.
We will need to make some decisions thats for sure and i dont think its too late for that.

[eyriq]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

This is our disconnect.

If this was an actual rebuilding team still, they wouldn't have retained Gary, they wouldn't have signed Ingles and they wouldn't have opted to keep both Cole and Markelle.

They willingly created this logjam. And why would they decide to do that?

If you want to believe it's because they wanted to retain those players as future potential trade assets, that's certainly your prerogative.

But it's pretty obvious to me that they want those players to actually play rotation minutes because they want to take another step forward record wise..

So picking up the option on Fultz and Harris, signing Ingles, and not making any trades, is your definition of a win now off-season? Like you really think those moves indicated that we've transitioned from player development and assessment (aka rebuilding) into playoff contention?

[I Rasharted]

Odds makers over/under wins for the Magic starting to emerge.
DraftKings 35.5 (-140)
BetRivers 36.5 (-115)
Caesars 36.5 (-130)
Personally I have us at 39 +- 4 wins

Read on Twitter

?t=aCNRQVy3rrYcQIDHmgl-CQ&s=19

Sounds about right.

[Knightro]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.

This is our disconnect.

If this was an actual rebuilding team still, they wouldn't have retained Gary, they wouldn't have signed Ingles and they wouldn't have opted to keep both Cole and Markelle.

They willingly created this logjam. And why would they decide to do that?

If you want to believe it's because they wanted to retain those players as future potential trade assets, that's certainly your prerogative.

But it's pretty obvious to me that they want those players to actually play rotation minutes because they want to take another step forward record wise..

So picking up the option on Fultz and Harris, signing Ingles, and not making any trades, is your definition of a win now off-season? Like you really think those moves indicated that we've transitioned from player development and assessment (aka rebuilding) into playoff contention?

There are varying degrees to this sort of thing.

No they’re not 100% all in and pulling every single lever and exhausting every single possible asset to compete for the NBA title.

But they’re clearly not “rebuilding” anymore either. It’s in the middle of both of those extremes.

Which has been my point all along. They clearly want to win more than they did last year in the name of progress, but they are also concurrently trying to “evaluate” and “develop” at the same time. My fear is that unless you get very lucky, it’s extremely difficult to pull off both of those things at once.

I just don’t think it’s at all fair to suggest the Magic don’t care about winning this year. If they truly didn’t care, Black would DEFINITELY be starting and Howard would be in the rotation too because that would be what’s best for the organization long-term even if it meant short-term pain.

[Knightro]

It’s a very simple thing for me.

If the Magic did not care about their record this upcoming season, Anthony Black would be the starting point guard.

If the record didn’t matter, they would have absolutely been willing to live with his inevitable rookie point guard struggles.

But they’re not willing to do that because they want to win more than last year.

[Skybox]

It’s a very simple thing for me.

If the Magic did not care about their record this upcoming season, Anthony Black would be the starting point guard.

If the record didn’t matter, they would have absolutely been willing to live with his inevitable rookie point guard struggles.

But they’re not willing to do that because they want to win more than last year.

But we're organically developing 6 point guards at the same time so that next year we can evaluate our internal growth while, at the same time, contending

got to choose a path, IMO. The surest way to disappoint everyone is to try to please everyone (every path)

[SOUL]

got to choose a path, IMO. The surest way to disappoint everyone is to try to please everyone (every path)

They are choosing a path though, people just aren't accepting it.

Young players being brought into the fold slowly is an extremely normal practice that people are not used to because of the last few years. If they are as talented as they have the potential to be, I can see them ending the season with way more minutes than the beginning.

I think you personally accrue more disappointment/lose faith from people, including from your own team, if you decide to jettison Fultz before the season starts (who has been getting praised by basically every teammate including Paolo, Franz, etc), to get WORSE this season by giving starting roles to rookies just because you're not sure in the future at these positions yet. I personally don't fear letting Fultz play it out because I think if they were going to extend him, they would've done it already. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think if he gets one, it's because he somehow is hitting threes at a way better rate and is playing incredibly well.

Secondly, there's just so many damn injuries/days off for players that people will get chances to shine. It's up to them to take it.

Not moving guys right now does invite the risk of extension, but those are the fears of fans more-so than the front office. I don't think they have favorites - they want someone to actually show they're the future at the guard position while not being a shooting liability. Who will step up and take it?

Moving guys right now makes us take a step back immediately, which none of the players want, also invites depth issues if we have similar problems as last year. Suddenly those "log jam issues", which is really just good depth, becomes an actual issue when we're relying on the Schofields and Bol Bols of the world to give us 20 good minutes.

There just needs to be a direction by mid-season. I think they'll get a lot of answers the first month or two. If they end the season with every guard still on the roster, Cole and Fultz with extensions, Black and Jett with no path forward and a mediocre team.. then obviously they deserve all the criticism they get. I just think that is so obvious to avoid and have a little faith (not full faith) that they will avoid it.

[zaymon]

got to choose a path, IMO. The surest way to disappoint everyone is to try to please everyone (every path)

They are choosing a path though, people just aren't accepting it.

Young players being brought into the fold slowly is an extremely normal practice that people are not used to because of the last few years. If they are as talented as they have the potential to be, I can see them ending the season with way more minutes than the beginning.

I think you personally accrue more disappointment/lose faith from people, including from your own team, if you decide to jettison Fultz before the season starts (who has been getting praised by basically every teammate including Paolo, Franz, etc), to get WORSE this season by giving starting roles to rookies just because you're not sure in the future at these positions yet. I personally don't fear letting Fultz play it out because I think if they were going to extend him, they would've done it already. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think if he gets one, it's because he somehow is hitting threes at a way better rate and is playing incredibly well.

Secondly, there's just so many damn injuries/days off for players that people will get chances to shine. It's up to them to take it.

Not moving guys right now does invite the risk of extension, but those are the fears of fans more-so than the front office. I don't think they have favorites - they want someone to actually show they're the future at the guard position while not being a shooting liability. Who will step up and take it?

Moving guys right now makes us take a step back immediately, which none of the players want, also invites depth issues if we have similar problems as last year. Suddenly those "log jam issues", which is really just good depth, becomes an actual issue when we're relying on the Schofields and Bol Bols of the world to give us 20 good minutes.

There just needs to be a direction by mid-season. I think they'll get a lot of answers the first month or two. If they end the season with every guard still on the roster, Cole and Fultz with extensions, Black and Jett with no path forward and a mediocre team.. then obviously they deserve all the criticism they get. I just think that is so obvious to avoid and have a little faith (not full faith) that they will avoid it.

Thats the best analysis i saw so far.
People here are angry becouse they assume front office will make mistakes that are quite easy to avoid while they try to not see the best outcomes our position enables.
We are in a great position. Can we screw it ? Of course we can, but we can also enjoy depth and flexibility. We had very slow start last season becouse we had only 2,5 point guards. This year we have 3,5 and thats somehow a bad thing ?

[Knightro]

There just needs to be a direction by mid-season. I think they'll get a lot of answers the first month or two. If they end the season with every guard still on the roster, Cole and Fultz with extensions, Black and Jett with no path forward and a mediocre team.. then obviously they deserve all the criticism they get. I just think that is so obvious to avoid and have a little faith (not full faith) that they will avoid it.

I love you SOUL, but this just blows me away.

The Magic last year went 34-48, but that included a 5-20 start where 75% of the team was out injured. From that point forward they went 29-28 which also included three intentional losses in the final 3 games of the season.

Unless they get absolutely annihilated by injuries, there's no way the Magic should win fewer than 40 games next season. I don't care what Vegas is projecting. If they don't win at least 40, then something went majorly wrong.

They went 29-25 over their next 54 games after that 5-20 start (before intentionally losing the final 3) and they're bringing back quite literally that entire group.

I think if everything goes right health wise and guys really buy into their roles and development keeps happening that the Magic could creep into the 42, 43 possibly even 44 win range.

If the Magic win somewhere in the aforementioned 40 to 44 win range this upcoming season, there is absolutely positively a 0.0% chance that Markelle Fultz will be allowed to walk in free agency. It will not happen. They will not let the starting point guard of an over .500 team that's trending up to leave for nothing *no matter how good or bad he plays individually*. I would bet my house, car, and life savings on that not happening.

Think about it...

The Magic were unwilling to take a step back THIS season. How on earth do any of you expect them to be willing to take a step back NEXT season when they're probably gonna go .500 or better this year? The onus will be on them to continue the momentum forward, which means resigning impending free agents from this year's team. They are not going to let their 26 year old multiple year starting PG leave and hand the reigns over to a 20/21 year old who got limited playing time as a rookie.

The amount of people who either can't see where this is going, don't accept where this is going, or don't believe that's how it's going to play out is staggering to me.

[basketballRob]

I could see the Magic offering Fultz a 2-yr $50m extension. It's an overpay, but they could try to get a team option in the second season. It could also be front-loaded.

DLo just got 2 years, $36m. If Fultz agreed to an extension like that, the Magic would probably give a player option in the second season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

The Magic were unwilling to take a step back THIS season.

What does this mean?

[pepe1991]

Imo season will play out something like this:
We win 38-40 games, make playin, probably don't make playoffs. In last playoff push we bench AB ( Jett will be riding those DNP-CDs anyway).

In offseason they resign Fultz on 4 years $100-$120M contract and Franz on designed max ( that won't kick in until year later).
Harris, Ingles probably both gone, Isaac gone or retired ( or both ), Suggs or Cole or both traded.

[Knightro]

The Magic were unwilling to take a step back THIS season.

What does this mean?

If the Magic truly didn't care about what their record was this season, Black and Howard would be in the rotation from day 1. But they aren't. Because they do care about the record this season and aren't willing to take a step back.

They want to "see progress" aka win more games than last year.

That's why they retained everybody and that's why they willingly created a situation where both of their lottery picks are blocked.

[eyriq]

The Magic were unwilling to take a step back THIS season.

What does this mean?

If the Magic truly didn't care about what their record was this season, Black and Howard would be in the rotation from day 1. But they aren't. Because they do care about the record this season and aren't willing to take a step back.

They want to "see progress" aka win more games than last year.

That's why they retained everybody and that's why they willingly created a situation where both of their lottery picks are blocked.

What was the "step back" they were unwilling to take?

[Knightro]

What does this mean?

If the Magic truly didn't care about what their record was this season, Black and Howard would be in the rotation from day 1. But they aren't. Because they do care about the record this season and aren't willing to take a step back.

They want to "see progress" aka win more games than last year.

That's why they retained everybody and that's why they willingly created a situation where both of their lottery picks are blocked.

What was the "step back" they were unwilling to take?

Moving on from Fultz and/or Anthony and starting Black.

[eyriq]

If the Magic truly didn't care about what their record was this season, Black and Howard would be in the rotation from day 1. But they aren't. Because they do care about the record this season and aren't willing to take a step back.

They want to "see progress" aka win more games than last year.

That's why they retained everybody and that's why they willingly created a situation where both of their lottery picks are blocked.

What was the "step back" they were unwilling to take?

Moving on from Fultz and/or Anthony and starting Black.

Ah, gotcha. I thought you were talking about last season and couldn't connect the dots.

Keep a spot warm for me on your take, if we extend Cole or Fultz early I'm all aboard. If we start out the season with Black out of the rotation I'll be alarmed. If we early extend a guard and bench Black I'll be on high alert.