Overarching 2024 goal, what should it be?

[jezzerinho]

The whole situation points to this:

Orlando will rely heavily on Fultz, Cole, Harris and Suggs early in the season. I wouldnt be surprised if they have even expressed to the pkayers that the first few months is a final audition and that theyll look to facilitate trades for the players they decide to move on from.

Pre-ASB they'll make their consolidation, including Okeke, Isaac and Moe W in their considerstions.

Then, hopefully having started the season well off of some very motivated play, theyll have qhoever they traded for plus the draftees to come into the roster on a more involved basis.

[Rainwater]

I am really not shocked, they haven't done anything to show they want to make the playoffs. I really feel like its about growth, fans are the ones seeking the playoffs.

Did you not watch Banchero cry in the presser after Orlando got eliminated from playoff contention? The Magicians want to make the playoffs. All press has been about all the players working very, very hard this off-season.

Orlando will at least be mediocre this season. There is no place for bad anymore with this roster.

A player crying doesn't necessarily affect a front office's long term goals, and I don't mean to say the front office doesn’t want to make the playoffs. I just believe are just indifferent to the idea. Their primary goal just seems like continued growth.

If making the playoffs was really the goal the off-season would not have gone as it has. They did very little in terms of free agency primarily not improving the backcourt with ready now players. They have gotten younger with two first round draft picks instead of trading them.

While I get the Magic had an unexpected season last season, I still believe the magic are still in the process of rebuilding. I just don't think they have reached a point where making the playoffs is their primary concern. I think give it a year or two and it will be.

[Magic#1]

.500 ball and play-in. As long as the core stay healthy.

This is the hard floor for Orlando. A 41-win play-in season is the minimal outcome, or there were will be a lot of grumpy players.

A hard push for the playoffs should be the goal.

This is where the players' minds must be. A hard push for 45 wins and the 6 seed is the target the Magic must aim for. Be ambitious.

Before the Magic gave up on games 79-82 (scrub time), after the 5-20 start, from game 26 to game 78 the Magic was 29-24. That is, a fully healthy team must expect to achieve at least that 55% win rate. Orlando has already proven that capacity. That's a 45-37 win season. Even if the Magic is not better this year than last, 45 wins is a realistic goal.

I don't see players being grumpy with a 5-6 game improvement (with health). Getting to the playoffs shows we're on the right track. Unless there are major injuries elsewhere, we're still clearly behind Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, Miami (esp if they get LIlliard) and probably Atlanta and New York. The only teams who were in front of us last year who clearly declined are Toronto, Washington and probably Brooklyn. Plus, I expect at least some improvement from Indy and Charlotte. I don't see anyway we're higher than a six seed at best without major injuries to another team and we stay healthy.

[drsd]

We should try to make playoffs but on the back of our young players.

Mo Wagner is Orlando's 3rd oldest player of the 15 under contract; he's 26. Basically you are arguing that G-Harris and Ingles should not be part of a Magic playoff push.

We dont have roster space and minutes for future young prospects so we should be not trying to lose on purpose. We will also not win championship next year so we need to keep our assets for the right window.

If this is code for "Black needs minutes", then you should really be begging Weltman to trade Anthony. There is no other path for Black to get minutes.

[drsd]

I am really not shocked, they haven't done anything to show they want to make the playoffs. I really feel like its about growth, fans are the ones seeking the playoffs.

Did you not watch Banchero cry in the presser after Orlando got eliminated from playoff contention? The Magicians want to make the playoffs. All press has been about all the players working very, very hard this off-season.

Orlando will at least be mediocre this season. There is no place for bad anymore with this roster.

A player crying doesn't necessarily affect a front office's long term goals and I don't mean to say they don't want to make the playoffs, they are just indifferent to the idea. Their primary goal just seems like continued growth.

If making the playoffs was really the goal the off-season would not have gone as it has. They did very little in terms of free agency primarily not improving the backcourt with ready now players. They have gotten younger with two first round draft picks instead of trading them.

While I get the Magic had an unexpected season last season, I still believe the magic are still in the process of rebuilding. I just don't think they have reached a point where making the playoffs is their primary concern. I think give it a year or two and it will be.

I see: by "they" you meant management. I thought you meant the players. I expect ever Magician to be better individually next year. I really do.

..

[Knightro]

ESPN has both rookies in the rotation. They aren't "primed" to not be in the rotation.

I don't understand why we'd even think this team is positioned to ignore developing two lottery picks that have star potential.

Respectfully, I don't care what ESPN says.

You tell me who Black and Howard are playing over?

If the Magic play 9 guys in their rotation like most NBA teams do, where are those guys getting on the floor?

You can say "oh well Black is going to play over Cole because he's better" but the odds are very likely he's NOT going to be better this season as most rookies struggle and that's also ignoring that Cole was actually quite good in his 6th man role last season.

Despite what some of you guys might say, the Magic are clearly trying to win. They wouldn't have ran it back with multiple players blocking their lotto picks if they weren't trying to win.

[eyriq]

ESPN has both rookies in the rotation. They aren't "primed" to not be in the rotation.

I don't understand why we'd even think this team is positioned to ignore developing two lottery picks that have star potential.

Respectfully, I don't care what ESPN says.

You tell me who Black and Howard are playing over?

If the Magic play 9 guys in their rotation like most NBA teams do, where are those guys getting on the floor?

You can say "oh well Black is going to play over Cole because he's better" but the odds are very likely he's NOT going to be better this season as most rookies struggle and that's also ignoring that Cole was actually quite good in his 6th man role last season.

Despite what some of you guys might say, the Magic are clearly trying to win. They wouldn't have ran it back with multiple players blocking their lotto picks if they weren't trying to win.

I know you meant it as a rhetorical question, but I think it's clear who they are playing over. In ESPN's case Black is playing over Suggs while Jett is playing over Isaac. In my case, Black is playing over Cole and Jett is playing over Harris.

Fultz / Black
Suggs /Jett
Franz / Ingles
Paolo / Moritz
WCJ / Goga

[Knightro]

I know you meant it as a rhetorical question, but I think it's clear who they are playing over. In ESPN's case Black is playing over Suggs while Jett is playing over Isaac. In my case, Black is playing over Cole and Jett is playing over Harris.

Fultz / Black
Suggs /Jett

But you know that this isn't actually happening, right?

Like I completely get you *want* it to happen, but Cole Anthony is DEFINITELY going to play significant minutes next season if he's on the roster. I would bet my entire bank account on that genuinely.

[eyriq]

I know you meant it as a rhetorical question, but I think it's clear who they are playing over. In ESPN's case Black is playing over Suggs while Jett is playing over Isaac. In my case, Black is playing over Cole and Jett is playing over Harris.

Fultz / Black
Suggs /Jett

But you know that this isn't actually happening, right?

Like I completely get you *want* it to happen, but Cole Anthony is DEFINITELY going to play significant minutes next season if he's on the roster. I would bet my entire bank account on that genuinely.

It's what I think is absolutely happening

(Absolutely == probably, but I'm saying it with my CHEST for the sake of argument)

[Skybox]

We should try to make playoffs but on the back of our young players.

Mo Wagner is Orlando's 3rd oldest player of the 15 under contract; he's 26. Basically you are arguing that G-Harris and Ingles should not be part of a Magic playoff push.

We dont have roster space and minutes for future young prospects so we should be not trying to lose on purpose. We will also not win championship next year so we need to keep our assets for the right window.

If this is code for "Black needs minutes", then you should really be begging Weltman to trade Anthony. There is no other path for Black to get minutes.

The other path actually makes more sense, imo…move Fultz, keep Cole. Cole and Suggs can play with anyone. Black and Fultz can’t co-exist. One of them should go…I’m guessing the smaller, lesser defender, doesn’t get to the line, way more expensive and about to get more, lower ceiling of the two could be the odd man out. I start Fultz until Black is ready (or until Cole proves he’s not). It’s a gamble to trade Fultz now…way bigger gamble to extend him and find him un-tradable. Let’s not cling to his “breakout”…he’s still bottom 5 among starting PGs.

[zaymon]

We should try to make playoffs but on the back of our young players.

Mo Wagner is Orlando's 3rd oldest player of the 15 under contract; he's 26. Basically you are arguing that G-Harris and Ingles should not be part of a Magic playoff push.

We dont have roster space and minutes for future young prospects so we should be not trying to lose on purpose. We will also not win championship next year so we need to keep our assets for the right window.

If this is code for "Black needs minutes", then you should really be begging Weltman to trade Anthony. There is no other path for Black to get minutes.

Harris and Ingles are perfect support veterans. Both can shoot both play selfless basketball. They enhance young guys instead of doing everything by themself. What you see as weakness i see as biggest strength. I dont want veterans who will marginalize young players.

I think rookies dont need minutes their first year. I am ok waiting a year until Fultz expires and Cole expires or is traded in the offseason. Fighting for minutes will do more good than being given minutes.

[drsd]

ESPN has both rookies in the rotation. They aren't "primed" to not be in the rotation.

I don't understand why we'd even think this team is positioned to ignore developing two lottery picks that have star potential.

Respectfully, I don't care what ESPN says.

You tell me who Black and Howard are playing over?

If the Magic play 9 guys in their rotation like most NBA teams do, where are those guys getting on the floor?

You can say "oh well Black is going to play over Cole because he's better" but the odds are very likely he's NOT going to be better this season as most rookies struggle and that's also ignoring that Cole was actually quite good in his 6th man role last season.

Despite what some of you guys might say, the Magic are clearly trying to win. They wouldn't have ran it back with multiple players blocking their lotto picks if they weren't trying to win.

To point 1 on ESPN, post of the day!

To the message: management decided to keep G-Harris and retained Anthony. By definition that means there will be limited playing time for Black, and nill-null-zilch playing time for Howard. That's just a reality of the constructed roster.

This is the depth chart:

Fultz/Anthony/Black
G-Harris/Suggs/Houstan/Howard
F-Wagner/Ingles/Okeke
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/M-Wagner/Bitadze

That's the nine man rotation; a 10th man will usually play, for various reasons - example: a given player is in foul trouble. And said player will often be M-Wagner.

Here's a "bold" prediction. K-Harris will log more minutes than Howard this season.

..

[drsd]

We should try to make playoffs but on the back of our young players.

Mo Wagner is Orlando's 3rd oldest player of the 15 under contract; he's 26. Basically you are arguing that G-Harris and Ingles should not be part of a Magic playoff push.

We dont have roster space and minutes for future young prospects so we should be not trying to lose on purpose. We will also not win championship next year so we need to keep our assets for the right window.

If this is code for "Black needs minutes", then you should really be begging Weltman to trade Anthony. There is no other path for Black to get minutes.

The other path actually makes more sense, imo…move Fultz, keep Cole. Cole and Suggs can play with anyone. Black and Fultz can’t co-exist. One of them should go…I’m guessing the smaller, lesser defender, doesn’t get to the line, way more expensive and about to get more, lower ceiling of the two could be the odd man out. I start Fultz until Black is ready (or until Cole proves he’s not). It’s a gamble to trade Fultz now…way bigger gamble to extend him and find him un-tradable. Let’s not cling to his “breakout”…he’s still bottom 5 among starting PGs.

I totally reject that Black and Suggs can pair. Management might go in that direction, but I see it as a major mistake.

More centrally, I think we all agree that Fultz will not be a Magician from the 2025/26 season. The writing is on the wall that he will be moved, either this year at the trading deadline, or at any subsequent deadline. (I wouldn't be shocked if the team gave the keys to the car o Black for the opening night of the 2024/25 season; shipping Fultz off next off season, for example).

But for right now: Black needs playing time and the Magic need a better SG than G-Harris. I am not thinking of the future, as none of us know if Black deserves to be an NBA starter one day.

[drsd]

We should try to make playoffs but on the back of our young players.

Mo Wagner is Orlando's 3rd oldest player of the 15 under contract; he's 26. Basically you are arguing that G-Harris and Ingles should not be part of a Magic playoff push.

We dont have roster space and minutes for future young prospects so we should be not trying to lose on purpose. We will also not win championship next year so we need to keep our assets for the right window.

If this is code for "Black needs minutes", then you should really be begging Weltman to trade Anthony. There is no other path for Black to get minutes.

Harris and Ingles are perfect support veterans. Both can shoot both play selfless basketball. They enhance young guys instead of doing everything by themself. What you see as weakness i see as biggest strength. I dont want veterans who will marginalize young players.

I think rookies dont need minutes their first year. I am ok waiting a year until Fultz expires and Cole expires or is traded in the offseason. Fighting for minutes will do more good than being given minutes.

And-1

Both will log major minutes. That they are older than 26, I am ok with that.

[jezzerinho]

As sceptical as I am about this FO, there's no way they draft those two guys and keep the other guards without a plan.

The only logical plan, as I said above, is to give the major minutes to Fultz, Harris, Suggs and Cole at season's start, make the final decision pre ASB and then bring the rookies plus whoever was traded for into the mix in the new year.

Should give us a hot start and then a more balanced roster heading into the playin/playoff race.

[Knightro]

More centrally, I think we all agree that Fultz will not be a Magician from the 2025/26 season. The writing is on the wall that he will be moved, either this year at the trading deadline, or at any subsequent deadline. (I wouldn't be shocked if the team gave the keys to the car o Black for the opening night of the 2024/25 season; shipping Fultz off next off season, for example).

I would absolutely not assume this in any respect.

The odds are far more likely the gets a new contract than he’s allowed to walk away scot free after this season.

And when he gets a new contract, his value will actually decrease even further because has minimal on-court value compared to what will inevitably be a raise in salary.

[Knightro]

As sceptical as I am about this FO, there's no way they draft those two guys and keep the other guards without a plan.

The only logical plan, as I said above, is to give the major minutes to Fultz, Harris, Suggs and Cole at season's start, make the final decision pre ASB and then bring the rookies plus whoever was traded for into the mix in the new year.

Should give us a hot start and then a more balanced roster heading into the playin/playoff race.

This just doesn’t make sense to me.

They’re gonna play their incumbents major minutes in an effort to get off to a hot start, then trade them away once they’ve helped establish the hot start?

I don’t think so.

I think the more logical explanation is that this front office simply intends to try and thread a delicate “compete and develop” needle which is extremely hard to do without messing up one of the two paths.

[Skybox]

More centrally, I think we all agree that Fultz will not be a Magician from the 2025/26 season. The writing is on the wall that he will be moved, either this year at the trading deadline, or at any subsequent deadline. (I wouldn't be shocked if the team gave the keys to the car o Black for the opening night of the 2024/25 season; shipping Fultz off next off season, for example).

I would absolutely not assume this in any respect.

The odds are far more likely the gets a new contract than he’s allowed to walk away scot free after this season.

And when he gets a new contract, his value will actually decrease even further because has minimal on-court value compared to what will inevitably be a raise in salary.

I agree…I think his trade value is highest right now- you might still believe he’s going to pop but, if not, you’re safe as he’s expiring. This isn’t an Anunoby situation where you have to be so concerned about retaining him

[jezzerinho]

As sceptical as I am about this FO, there's no way they draft those two guys and keep the other guards without a plan.

The only logical plan, as I said above, is to give the major minutes to Fultz, Harris, Suggs and Cole at season's start, make the final decision pre ASB and then bring the rookies plus whoever was traded for into the mix in the new year.

Should give us a hot start and then a more balanced roster heading into the playin/playoff race.

This just doesn’t make sense to me.

They’re gonna play their incumbents major minutes in an effort to get off to a hot start, then trade them away once they’ve helped establish the hot start?

I don’t think so.

I think the more logical explanation is that this front office simply intends to try and thread a delicate “compete and develop” needle which is extremely hard to do without messing up one of the two paths.

Not exactly. Theyre going to keep some and trade some. The 4 guys, knowing theyre either in contract year or in the shop window, will be motivated to go full bore.

The FO will surely make their call in the winter and then trade for a key piece, freeing up the logjam. The rooks will then have a path to bench gametime, while Franz Paolo WCJ, the player traded for and the remaining guards form the solid core.

[eyriq]

We are talking about Gary Harris and Cole Anthony blocking two lotto picks on a rebuilding team. Just think about that. Respectfully, it doesn't make any sense from any angle.