2023-2024 Regular Season Game 64: Orlando Magic (37-26) at New York Knicks (36-26) - 7:30pm

[RookieStar]

Fultz has some legit thing going on which is why you see him spasm and jolt around and stuff in interviews. Not sure how feasible it is to continue a career with that lingering.

Think the best thing for him is to take a year off or 2 and get himself treated for chance at a comeback.

If not, im sure he made more than 50m already and that should be enough to live off if he doesnt splurge

[eyriq]

Something to think about, we are 15th in ESPN BPI.

Is Mosley the #15 coach and the key driver?
Are Paolo, Franz, Suggs the #15 core and a key driver?
Are Moe and Cole #15 role players and a key driver?
Is the bench the #15 bench and a key driver?

[KillMonger]

good gary....bad gary....tonight? bad gary.....nothing against the guy but i'd rather have caleb or jett out there.....they have shooter's confidence....now i'm not asking him to just jack up shots.....but why are you hesitating? why are you passing up shots? coming off screens and not shooting? it's like he only wants to take wide open shots....you're out there for one thing, you have to let it fly man

I mean for tonight, sure.. but for 14 games h was shooting 50/50 with defense. Jett ain't giving that.

i want more volume....but that's nothing new for gary....i just hope the next 14 games he doesn't play like he did tonight....the percentage doesn't concern me much, just take more shots...especially with no suggs

[byeganyo]

Franz is great…possible future All-Star…not getting a max extension. He’s not a Paolo, he’s more of a Bane, Mikal Bridges level guy. This is not new or related to his shooting slump.

Everybody good does not get a max extension.

Yep i fail to see how the thought of finding a better player is sacrilegious, really if Franz can be the 3rd option, it means we have a good team.

I just don't see any reasonable team executive looking at Franz as anything other than a 1b or 2a tier player. Simmons trade value has him 30th, and 47th in overall impact. The 30th ranked salary is an AAV of $44m, the 47th ranked salary is an AAV of $34M.

Again, he's 22 and a clear rising star. He's arguably the best player on a team that is favored to finish top 6. He's part of a young core that should be in the conversation with Durant/Westbrook and Shaq/Penny.

This is very arguable, alright, Paolo is the clear top dog of the team and he is the younger one.
Penny made an all nba team in his second season and his team reached the finals
Westbrook made an all nba team in his 3rd seaosn and his team reached the conference finals

This is the 3rd season of Franz, so let have this conversation, how is he faring against Penny and Westbrook?

I like him a lot, but such takes are a bit delusional right now.

I woulnt mind being proved wrong and us reaching the finals this season of course.

[eyriq]

Yep i fail to see how the thought of finding a better player is sacrilegious, really if Franz can be the 3rd option, it means we have a good team.

I just don't see any reasonable team executive looking at Franz as anything other than a 1b or 2a tier player. Simmons trade value has him 30th, and 47th in overall impact. The 30th ranked salary is an AAV of $44m, the 47th ranked salary is an AAV of $34M.

Again, he's 22 and a clear rising star. He's arguably the best player on a team that is favored to finish top 6. He's part of a young core that should be in the conversation with Durant/Westbrook and Shaq/Penny.

This is very arguable, alright, Paolo is the clear top dog of the team and he is the younger one.
Penny made an all nba team in his second season and his team reached the finals
Westbrook made an all nba team in his 3rd seaosn and his team reached the conference finals

This is the 3rd season of Franz, so let have this conversation, how is he faring against Penny and Westbrook?

I like him a lot, but such takes are a bit delusional right now.

I woulnt mind being proved wrong and us reaching the finals this season of course.

It is no where near as delusional as you may think.

Penny in year 3 was 24 years old and averaged 22/4/7 on 51/31/77 splits with WS/48 of .229, PER 24.6
Russell in year 3 was 22 years old and averaged 22/5/8 on 44/33/84 splits with WS/48 of .159, PER 23.6
Franz in year 3 is 22 years old and averaging 21/6/4 on 48/32/86 splits with WS/48 of .130, PER 18.0

And Franz crushes them on defense (IMO)

[thelead]

Watch on YouTube

[DiplomaticMagic]

Its games like this where I just cant trust this team. Just like the game in Miami last month. It was a must win and these guys play like this.

I feel like we arent as good as our record. We get a bit high because of 5 game winning streak but look who those 5 teams were.

[tiderulz]

Fultz has some legit thing going on which is why you see him spasm and jolt around and stuff in interviews. Not sure how feasible it is to continue a career with that lingering.

Think the best thing for him is to take a year off or 2 and get himself treated for chance at a comeback.

If not, im sure he made more than 50m already and that should be enough to live off if he doesnt splurge

a year or 2 off? he played 26 games in 2 years from 2020-2022.

[tiderulz]

imagine if we had a real PG running the show? once again, lack of guard play killed us

[T-Cat]

Maybe Franz is just tired? The guys has no time off even when the NBA season is over.

I mean, he played SL then i think some fiba/euro/whatever then last summer world cup again.

He never got enough rest and proper training again right?

He wasn't tired when he dropped 30 plus points the other night?

Everyone but Paolo had a full All Star break to rest up!

Franz just isn't that guy we have that does the little things like Suggs and Isaac when his offense isn't working due to his lack of physical play.

I'm telling people, once the playoffs come he will be exposed!

He's still young!

[pepe1991]

Games like this are exect reason why we weren't picked by many to be playoff team. Over a season we menaged to mask our lack of creativity & guard scoring, but sometimes you can't shoot and other team comes with solid defensive plan and it's perfect s***storm.

I have no clue wtf is wrong with Fultz, but today he simply isn't nba rotation guard.
Black reminded us why winning games and playing rookie in most of cases is oxymoron.

We had 5 assist total in starting 5. And i keep saying same s** over and over and over again in all Allen vs Monk vs anybody debates.
For playoff basketball you need starting level POINT GUARD first because you need somebody to control pace and be solid with ball in hands with 5 or less sec on a clock.

[The-Stallion70]

Everyone needs to chill the fck out

Last year Denver lost 29 regular season games including a 21 point loss to the Bulls and getting busted by 30 to Minnesota

It's basketball it happens

[T-Cat]

Read on Twitter

[Message Boar]

Its games like this where I just cant trust this team. Just like the game in Miami last month. It was a must win and these guys play like this.

I feel like we arent as good as our record. We get a bit high because of 5 game winning streak but look who those 5 teams were.

Between that Miami game, the OKC game, and this Knicks game, the team has an awful habit of no-showing in what us fans consider "big games". Suggs being out seemingly fairly last-minute was a big blow (along with 3rd game in 4 night all on the road) to our chances tonight though, so a letdown game wasn't entirely unexpected.

[Message Boar]

The Portland Trail Blazers have dropped the fewest points by a team in a game this season, with 77 points against the Thunder on January 11.

Embarrassing.

(by us)

[fateis007]

My cable went out and I wasn't able to watch the entire thing. But i saw eough.

But once again, we got shut down by a playoff team and got completely outcoached. This was a huge game for us, probably the most important of the season and we were dreadful.

Mosley leaves a lot to be desired. I get it, we don't have a ton of shooters or a pointguard. BUT ITS HIS JOB to get open looks for guys like Garry, Joe, Suggs, Cole. He has made his living off 2, huge point forwards running this offense instead of a pointguard anyways.

People defend this guy like he has no control and it's out of the question that he might be having a major part in these collapses. (he cant make the shots for them, he cant shoot there free throws, etc etc) Which I entirely don't understand, he is the driver behind this offensive scheme. It's his game plan, his whiteboard. His offense is very predictable. It's entirely his job to make a game plan that gets us open looks that usually are a result of breaking down a defense.

I have been harping about this all year. It's not just on the players to make shots, you have to design a gameplan that creates open looks. You can't tell me its impossible to get Gary an open shot on a pin down or run a few screens to get him freed up. This guy was a starter for Denver and putting up 17-18ppg, and now he cant even get a shot up?

Our offense lacks creativity and motion and relies entirely to much on Paolo facing up and him and Franz running the high pick and and roll. These other guys look entirely lost with the ball in their hands at this point.

We have even completely stopped using Cole the way he was the most effective all year, where his mid game range was automatic.

[SOUL]

This is a quote from you:

I don't like Mosley as a coach at all.

You inherently come from a bias though, correct? I have a bias of liking him.. so we're even lol. But there's a reason why literally nobody blamed him for today's loss, and trust me, a lot of the board blame coaches but like.. I really don't understand what you're asking for lol. Are we supposed to be running Gary around like he's Ray Allen? He's never been that player.

Question, is Nick Nurse a bad coach now because he can't get the Sixers to win without their best player? Is Carlisle unable to teach the Pacers defense? Is Quin Snyder overrated? Is Will Hardy not able to work his magic anymore? Did Ime Udoka forget how to teach offense when coaching the Celtics to the Rockets or is their players just better? Is Kerr mid? Did Daigneault go from one of the worst records as a head coach ever to what he is now because he just one day woke up and remembered how to coach?

Your best personnel dictates schemes. You can easily overhaul the entire team if you want to chuck threes, just play Suggs/Houstan/Okeke/Ingles/Paolo or some weird lineup, and watch how much more trash our defense becomes while we chuck a lot of threes. I feel like the common thread of people who don't like Mose being like (as an analogy), "I know the recipe called for sugar instead of salt, and icing instead of ranch, but IDK man the chef just probably can't cook, that's why it tastes so bad!"

A lot of the NBA runs similar sets unless you have complete game-changers like Jokic or Steph, you'll see some more interesting stuff. But just like our team when we blitz guys like Mikal or leave Ausar open or have specific methods of defense to exploit other teams with bad offense, it can happen to us. So until we have enough gravity out there offensively, we can get exploited pretty easily.

And yes, sure, singular plays can be drawn up for "different looks", but if it's accounting for 4-6 points and still getting your ass whooped, there just just no scheme that can save a tired team that can't make open shots let alone rushed, bad ones.

You can't tell me its impossible to get Gary an open shot on a pin down or run a few screens to get him freed up. This guy was a starter for Denver and putting up 17-18ppg, and now he cant even get a shot up?

Gary was:

42/33 with Malone (2nd to last year in Denver)
44/32 with Malone (last year in Denver)
36/36 with Clifford (first year with ORL)
43/38 with Mose (first year with Mose)
45/43 with Mose (2nd year with Mose)
45/38 with Mose (3rd year with Mose)

So if anything, he's actually helped him become relevant as a shooter again.

[zaymon]

Franz needs more confidence and we surround him with players who have no confidence and mental problems. I think we are asking too much from Franz and Paolo. Lead the team on the floor and babysit older players off the floor. Nice family where veterans need to be taken care of by young players...
I dont agree with Weltman here. You can see how much burden is on Franz shoulders. In the end its not family, its a basketball club, and players like Fultz wont be disinherited after we cut them.
I dont even have words for what WCJ is doing...
We cant have backcourt with that limited ball handling. Even if they shoot and they arent.

[p0peye]

I will repeat what I said in the thread on 4th place: we are not as good as our standing implies.

[KillMonger]

watching other teams on league pass its really obvious man.....why is it everyone can shoot but us? naz reid hit 7 threes man...dejounte 6....it's a broken record but we really need to address this in the offseason....certain guys needs to be replaced....certain guys may need to be demoted....certain guys need to focus on themselves and improve in the summer...however it needs to be done, it needs to be done.....