Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 4.0

[Rainwater]

We are sitting here talking about players like Monk and Claxton and rationalizing how they are going to vault us into contention somehow.

Big deal, let's go get Lamelo Ball. He's a player who, if we add him to Paolo and Franz, we will then be contending.

Dude is not even available, it’s like the Magic trading Paolo, lol.

[cedric76]

For those who r not sold on monk yet

Watch on YouTube

Wepark, go for it, offer him 88 M front loaded

Awesome find. Sign me up!

Yep and I love the front-load. I’d make one inquiry on Murray…and if it’s not happening- go get Monk.

I think the best fit is Murray, no questions about this, however it would cost many assets to get him and enter a bidding war with other teams.
Monk is the second best option

Although, nothing stop us to sign Monk and trade him to Atlanta along a Frp to Atlanta for Murray

Not sure he would be a great fit next to Trae but at least he is an asset

[drsd]

Read on Twitter

Is that Vučević in the bottom left? How the mighty have fallen!


p.s. this metric has Simons as an elite offensive player. Hmm.

[cedric76]

Option A (GO FOR IT!!): Trade for a substantial upgrade at guard without giving up Banchero, Franz, Suggs or Isaac.

Option B (Big swing but still relatively safe): Monk

Option C (Play it safe): Tyus Jones + a shooter (GTJ, Malik Beasley, Caleb Martin)

I'm really hoping for one of the first two options

Option A:
Trade for Murray, what would it cost?
A young player that fit next to Trae (black) + 2 FRP .+ FRP Swap
As we r under the cap, this trade would give them a trade exception.
Would i do that?
I think so (I m not a big fan of Black) if the beef between Paolo and Murray is cleared
Murray for black+ 2024 orl+ 2025 den + 2025 orl Swap

Murray
Suggs , Jett
Franz, Houstan
Paolo, Moe
Wcj, JI

After this trade we d have close to 20 M cap and Cole (trade) to finish this lineup

Shame that we wouldn't have our Frp anymore as I d love to get Carter to fill the back up PG

As you see option A is far harder than option B

But you can't deny that this starting lineup would be very sexy and hard to score on

[Skybox]

Read on Twitter

p.s. this metric has Simons as an elite offensive player. Hmm.

No question in my mind that Simons is an elite offensive player…defense is the common objection- which I think is an overstated concern…he’s just like Monk (including assists), just as physically explosive but younger, longer, and in the highest echelon of 3pt shooters…I also think he’s gettable due to POR’s cap situation, which is disastrous for a team so early in rebuild. I would think a couple of late frps (which is all we have now) and absorb into cap…maybe they even like Cole as a less expensive, “good enough” substitute for his pending role of 6th man, scorer off the bench. Possibly, including Howard or Black lowers the price (picks). I could see Cole and Black straight up for Simons, or Black + DEN pick… Simons is on a good deal but too good and well paid to back up Sharpe & Simons.

His production on a bad team in the Pacific Northwest is way below the radar. There’s a big difference between guys who regularly score 15 vs 25…he wouldn’t avg 25 in ORL, but their respective averages are more than just situational.

[JoshuaPotter]

Read on Twitter

p.s. this metric has Simons as an elite offensive player. Hmm.

No question in my mind that Simons is an elite offensive player…defense is the common objection- which I think is an overstated concern…he’s just like Monk (including assists), just as physically explosive but younger, longer, and in the highest echelon of 3pt shooters…I also think he’s gettable due to POR’s cap situation, which is disastrous for a team so early in rebuild. I would think a couple of late frps (which is all we have now) and absorb into cap…maybe they even like Cole as a less expensive, “good enough” substitute for his pending role of 6th man, scorer off the bench. Possibly, including Howard or Black lowers the price (picks). I could see Cole and Black straight up for Simons, or Black + DEN pick… Simons is on a good deal but too good and well paid to back up Sharpe & Simons.

His production on a bad team in the Pacific Northwest is way below the radar. There’s a big difference between guys who regularly score 15 vs 25…he wouldn’t avg 25 in ORL, but their respective averages are more than just situational.

Gettable.....maybe...

Wants to be here? Would gel well? Debatable.

I wasn't even mad at suggesting throwing in Black or Howard as part of a package. He just well...needs to want to be here. I just don't see it working well even if the NBA is supposed to be a business.

Edit : Contextually, if Monk is available, wants the money, wants to be here, thinks this could be a place to blow up and make a name for himself with deep playoff runs. Sure. Why not.

[rcklsscognition]

Simons is from here, we should have gotten him earlier. I’d give up AB and Jett for him.

[OrlChamps2030]

Suggs feels like the perfect guard to play next to Simons

[thelead]

Simons is from here, we should have gotten him earlier. I’d give up AB and Jett for him.

No. They can take Cole, our 18th pick, and next year’s pick. We just need him to quietly ask out and ‘force’ his way home. A young reclamation project and 2 1sts should be enough to snag a player like Simons.

[OrlChamps2030]

Brunson was a terrible defender by EPM metrics. Now he’s average. I wonder what Simons would look like on an elite defensive team

[Knightro]

Simons is from here, we should have gotten him earlier. I’d give up AB and Jett for him.

Absolutely not for me.

I am willing to trade both Black and Jett in the right deal, but Simons is just not the guy some of y'all think he is.

1. Simons is one of the absolute worst defensive players in the sport. Worse than Monk. Worse than Cole. Worse than Trae Young even. Here is his defensive EPM rank by Year: 425th, 473rd, 505th, 478th, 351st, 518th.

2. He's not durable. Simons has only played 70 games one time in six NBA seasons.

He's a very good shooter who shoots at extreme volume from 3PT and there's value in that alone, but he is less of a point guard (at least statistically) than Malik Monk and there are people suggesting Monk is too much of a shameless shooting guard gunner type.

If the price was miniscule, I'd be interested.

[Knightro]

Brunson was a terrible defender by EPM metrics. Now he’s average. I wonder what Simons would look like on an elite defensive team

Couple things...

At his worst, Brunson was never as bad defensively as Simons currently is.

Brunson has consistently been in the 250-300 range defensively according to EPM. Simons has been in the 450-500+ range.

Also Brunson in NY has been basically the exact same defensively, at least according to EPM, as he was in Dallas.

[OrlChamps2030]

Brunson was a terrible defender by EPM metrics. Now he’s average. I wonder what Simons would look like on an elite defensive team

Couple things...

At his worst, Brunson was never as bad defensively as Simons currently is.

Brunson has consistently been in the 250-300 range defensively according to EPM. Simons has been in the 450-500+ range.

Also Brunson in NY has been basically the exact same defensively, at least according to EPM, as he was in Dallas.

I stand corrected then. I don’t have access to prior year EPM and I was going off of tweets (maybe from mid season from previous years) so my bad about that. How do you pull prior year EPM?

You did say above though that Simons had a defensive EPM ranking of 351 last season - by far his best defensive season then.

Last season, Simons:

- Started the most games of his career
- Played the most minutes of his career
- Played on the most competitive team he’s been on as a starter
- Started next to Josh Hart and Nurkic

Although it’s not great he trended down defensively this season, maybe he could get back to the 300-350 range on this team?

I’d feel pretty confident in betting that any guard that starts on this team next to Suggs won’t grade out as a league worst defender

Of course, how much I actually want Simons on this team is completely relative to how much it would take to get him and I don’t think it would take much to get him

[Skybox]

Brunson was a terrible defender by EPM metrics. Now he’s average. I wonder what Simons would look like on an elite defensive team

Couple things...

At his worst, Brunson was never as bad defensively as Simons currently is.

Brunson has consistently been in the 250-300 range defensively according to EPM. Simons has been in the 450-500+ range.

Also Brunson in NY has been basically the exact same defensively, at least according to EPM, as he was in Dallas.

I stand corrected then. I don’t have access to prior year EPM and I was going off of tweets (maybe from mid season from previous years) so my bad about that. How do you pull prior year EPM?

You did say above though that Simons had a defensive EPM ranking of 351 last season - by far his best defensive season then.

Last season, Simons:

- Started the most games of his career
- Played the most minutes of his career
- Played on the most competitive team he’s been on as a starter
- Started next to Josh Hart and Nurkic

Although it’s not great he trended down defensively this season, maybe he could get back to the 300-350 range on this team?

I’d feel pretty confident in betting that any guard that starts on this team next to Suggs won’t grade out as a league worst defender

Of course, how much I actually want Simons on this team is completely relative to how much it would take to get him and I don’t think it would take much to get him

Re: durability, Simons got shut down for tanking at least once recently…I’m not aware of any major injuries.

Imo, Monk is a really good fit and gettable…but Simons is even better at the same things… better and more proven for a longer time. He’d be an awesome addition…Monk would be very good in the same spot with the same role, benefits, and liabilities…Simons’ elite shooting is the differentiator and also a direct plug for our most gaping hole.

I question the significance of individual defensive stats when so much of it is reliant on the team…I’m not saying he’s a great defender, or even a good one, but team dynamic might be the #1 factor.

[RichCollab]

Couple things...

At his worst, Brunson was never as bad defensively as Simons currently is.

Brunson has consistently been in the 250-300 range defensively according to EPM. Simons has been in the 450-500+ range.

Also Brunson in NY has been basically the exact same defensively, at least according to EPM, as he was in Dallas.

I stand corrected then. I don’t have access to prior year EPM and I was going off of tweets (maybe from mid season from previous years) so my bad about that. How do you pull prior year EPM?

You did say above though that Simons had a defensive EPM ranking of 351 last season - by far his best defensive season then.

Last season, Simons:

- Started the most games of his career
- Played the most minutes of his career
- Played on the most competitive team he’s been on as a starter
- Started next to Josh Hart and Nurkic

Although it’s not great he trended down defensively this season, maybe he could get back to the 300-350 range on this team?

I’d feel pretty confident in betting that any guard that starts on this team next to Suggs won’t grade out as a league worst defender

Of course, how much I actually want Simons on this team is completely relative to how much it would take to get him and I don’t think it would take much to get him

Re: durability, Simons got shut down for tanking at least once recently…I’m not aware of any major injuries.

Imo, Monk is a really good fit and gettable…but Simons is even better at the same things… better and more proven for a longer time. He’d be an awesome addition…Monk would be very good in the same spot with the same role, benefits, and liabilities…Simons’ elite shooting is the differentiator and also a direct plug for our most gaping hole.

I question the significance of individual defensive stats when so much of it is reliant on the team…I’m not saying he’s a great defender, or even a good one, but team dynamic might be the #1 factor.

Monk has performed on a decent team. Fans and teammates love him.

Simmons is on a bad team. I’m not sure Fans or teammates care if Simmons leaveing.

[Skybox]

I stand corrected then. I don’t have access to prior year EPM and I was going off of tweets (maybe from mid season from previous years) so my bad about that. How do you pull prior year EPM?

You did say above though that Simons had a defensive EPM ranking of 351 last season - by far his best defensive season then.

Last season, Simons:

- Started the most games of his career
- Played the most minutes of his career
- Played on the most competitive team he’s been on as a starter
- Started next to Josh Hart and Nurkic

Although it’s not great he trended down defensively this season, maybe he could get back to the 300-350 range on this team?

I’d feel pretty confident in betting that any guard that starts on this team next to Suggs won’t grade out as a league worst defender

Of course, how much I actually want Simons on this team is completely relative to how much it would take to get him and I don’t think it would take much to get him

Re: durability, Simons got shut down for tanking at least once recently…I’m not aware of any major injuries.

Imo, Monk is a really good fit and gettable…but Simons is even better at the same things… better and more proven for a longer time. He’d be an awesome addition…Monk would be very good in the same spot with the same role, benefits, and liabilities…Simons’ elite shooting is the differentiator and also a direct plug for our most gaping hole.

I question the significance of individual defensive stats when so much of it is reliant on the team…I’m not saying he’s a great defender, or even a good one, but team dynamic might be the #1 factor.

Monk has performed on a decent team. Fans and teammates love him.

Simmons is on a bad team. I’m not sure Fans or teammates care if Simmons leaveing.

…I believe ownership would also, discreetly, be happy to cut significant payroll. They aren’t going to win anything anyway and they are in an embarrassingly bad tax situation for a tank squad. Tough for fans to stomach, but real.

[Knightro]

I like Monk more than Simons if for no other reason than the Magic could just sign Monk and not give up anything to get him.

I don't believe Simons is significantly better, if at all, than Monk. If they're basically the same from an impact perspective, then give me the guy that only costs money and not picks/players.

Maximize the assets.

[OrlChamps2030]

I like Monk more than Simons if for no other reason than the Magic could just sign Monk and not give up anything to get him.

I don't believe Simons is significantly better, if at all, than Monk. If they're basically the same from an impact perspective, then give me the guy that only costs money and not picks/players.

Maximize the assets.

Yeah but cap space is an asset too

In theory - couldn’t the Magic sign Hartenstein early on in free agency and then turn around and trade WCJ + Ingles (accepted TO) + Denver 1st for Simons?

I know we have a lot of cap space but bringing in both Monk and Hartenstein as free agents feels like a stretch

[Knightro]

Yeah but cap space is an asset too

In theory - couldn’t the Magic sign Hartenstein early on in free agency and then turn around and trade WCJ + Ingles (accepted TO) + Denver 1st for Simons?

I know we have a lot of cap space but bringing in both Monk and Hartenstein as free agents feels like a stretch

Sure. It absolutely is. And there's certainly more than one way to potentially skin this cat.

I would say if the Magic truly wanted to, they could sign Monk and Hartenstein both outright in free agency.

If they let Ingles walk, they'll have about 43M in cap space, I think that would be enough for both guys. If they need a little more, they could punt Houstan or their 2024 1st to free up additional space.

[JRoy]

p.s. this metric has Simons as an elite offensive player. Hmm.

No question in my mind that Simons is an elite offensive player…defense is the common objection- which I think is an overstated concern…he’s just like Monk (including assists), just as physically explosive but younger, longer, and in the highest echelon of 3pt shooters…I also think he’s gettable due to POR’s cap situation, which is disastrous for a team so early in rebuild. I would think a couple of late frps (which is all we have now) and absorb into cap…maybe they even like Cole as a less expensive, “good enough” substitute for his pending role of 6th man, scorer off the bench. Possibly, including Howard or Black lowers the price (picks). I could see Cole and Black straight up for Simons, or Black + DEN pick… Simons is on a good deal but too good and well paid to back up Sharpe & Simons.

His production on a bad team in the Pacific Northwest is way below the radar. There’s a big difference between guys who regularly score 15 vs 25…he wouldn’t avg 25 in ORL, but their respective averages are more than just situational.

Gettable.....maybe...

Wants to be here? Would gel well? Debatable.

I wasn't even mad at suggesting throwing in Black or Howard as part of a package. He just well...needs to want to be here. I just don't see it working well even if the NBA is supposed to be a business.

Edit : Contextually, if Monk is available, wants the money, wants to be here, thinks this could be a place to blow up and make a name for himself with deep playoff runs. Sure. Why not.

In exit interviews, Simons made comments about being at a point in his career where he wants to win, so he might be open to a move, especially one near his hometown.