Moderators: ChosenSavior, SOUL, UCF, Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami
Knightro wrote:Trading Isaac is incredibly difficult. His injury history is so expansive that it's impossible to get fair value in return.
He's more valuable to the Magic even playing 15-20 MPG than what they'd get back for him.
I think it's a near certainty he's back next season.
Don't forget those Phoenix Suns. They are in cap hell.Knightro wrote:MagicMatic wrote:Magic aren’t paying 3 guys max money and going to be able to field a real team. That’s not for 3-5 years from now, but it’s the truth if they plan on building a sustainable roster. Orlando’s ownership isn’t paying that tax either. Not trying to be Phoenix 2.0 because people live in fantasy land.
And yeah, Orlando is in a GOOD spot. Let’s keep it that way for a little bit until the ceiling is capped. I have no problem with them going out and getting a guy to fill in, but this talk of Booker etc. is borderline absurd 2k talk from Twitter children.
There are vastly different degrees of "max" contract though.
Year ---- 6 years or less ---- 7-9 years ---- 10+ years
2024/25 - $36,725,670 - $44,070,804 - $51,415,938
2025/26 - $39,446,090 - $47,335,308 - $55,224,526
2026/27 - $42,166,510 - $50,599,512 - $59,033,114
2027/28 - $44,886,930 - $53,864,316 - $62,841,702
There's a massive gap between the $36M max that Franz will agree to this summer and somebody like Damian Lillard who is making $54.2 and $58.6M in the last two years of his deal.
That 20 extra million that a guy like Lillard makes, when you spread out over 3 different max contracts is the equivalent to a 4th max deal.
The cap next year is going to be $141M with the luxury tax at $172M. The second apron of the luxury tax is going to be $190M. All of those figures are going to keep increasing over the next 7-10 years with the new television contracts and the two expansion teams that will inevitably be added in the next 4-5 years.
The Magic won't really be in any sort of real financial danger until Paolo, Franz and Suggs are signing their third contracts to be frank.
They are in a great position to get aggressive without really hurting the long-term future as much as people think.
The teams that are in the most trouble in the short term are the teams like the Clippers and Bucks and Celtics, the ones who have been actively trying to win the championship for the last 5-6 years.
wco81 wrote:What has the team said about extending Issac?
I guess they could in the fall or he will be a UFA next summer?
Seems like he's had moments in the regular season but only averaged 15 MPG.
In the playoffs he's having great stretches but only averaging 21-22 MPG.
With injuries he hasn't developed an offensive game but his defensive impact is unmistakeable. I recall some people questioning the second contract that the Magic gave him but they absolutely believed in the potential.
The crazy thing is that Spotrac has hi potentially getting 21.4% of the cap or $33.2 million next year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
Is that based on the fact that he was the #6 pick, the size of his second contract? Certainly can't be based on production.
OTOH, Magic have a ton of cap space right? But they're going to have to pay Franz, Paolo, Suggs in a couple of years and they need more shooting.
Well how the playoffs unroll will be interesting. If the Magic win this first-round series, compete well against the Celtics, they should be more inclined to bring Issac back.
Still, I could see him being paid like Aaron Gordon or what OG is getting now, around $20-25 million a year, just mainly as a defensive specialist who can spot up for 3s.
If the Magic don't pay him, some team needing a 4 will.
wco81 wrote:What has the team said about extending Issac?
I guess they could in the fall or he will be a UFA next summer?
Seems like he's had moments in the regular season but only averaged 15 MPG.
In the playoffs he's having great stretches but only averaging 21-22 MPG.
With injuries he hasn't developed an offensive game but his defensive impact is unmistakeable. I recall some people questioning the second contract that the Magic gave him but they absolutely believed in the potential.
The crazy thing is that Spotrac has hi potentially getting 21.4% of the cap or $33.2 million next year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
Is that based on the fact that he was the #6 pick, the size of his second contract? Certainly can't be based on production.
OTOH, Magic have a ton of cap space right? But they're going to have to pay Franz, Paolo, Suggs in a couple of years and they need more shooting.
Well how the playoffs unroll will be interesting. If the Magic win this first-round series, compete well against the Celtics, they should be more inclined to bring Issac back.
Still, I could see him being paid like Aaron Gordon or what OG is getting now, around $20-25 million a year, just mainly as a defensive specialist who can spot up for 3s.
If the Magic don't pay him, some team needing a 4 will.
Residual-Heat wrote:three3d wrote:Residual-Heat wrote:Giddey is a horrible fit for this team. Why are we bringing in another forward? One that cant shoot or defend?
You want a play maker get a PG that can shoot and defend his position.
Another point is OKC is absolutely loaded with skill and youth along with assets like draft picks. Maybe the piece isn’t Giddey but they have plenty of other players that would help us. Just picture JI and Chet together or interchangeable. I’d like to establish a good relationship with a club that drafts as well as OKC also going towards the future. Nothing wrong with building a relationship that could help us in the future.
No offense, but i couldnt care less about any of that. I am picturing JI on the Magic, helping us win games in the play offs as he is currently doing.
three3d wrote:Knightro wrote:Trading Isaac is incredibly difficult. His injury history is so expansive that it's impossible to get fair value in return.
He's more valuable to the Magic even playing 15-20 MPG than what they'd get back for him.
I think it's a near certainty he's back next season.
If you were OKC would you consider a guy like Cason Wallace and or Jalen Williams for Isaac?
Residual-Heat wrote:wco81 wrote:What has the team said about extending Issac?
I guess they could in the fall or he will be a UFA next summer?
Seems like he's had moments in the regular season but only averaged 15 MPG.
In the playoffs he's having great stretches but only averaging 21-22 MPG.
With injuries he hasn't developed an offensive game but his defensive impact is unmistakeable. I recall some people questioning the second contract that the Magic gave him but they absolutely believed in the potential.
The crazy thing is that Spotrac has hi potentially getting 21.4% of the cap or $33.2 million next year.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/yearly
Is that based on the fact that he was the #6 pick, the size of his second contract? Certainly can't be based on production.
OTOH, Magic have a ton of cap space right? But they're going to have to pay Franz, Paolo, Suggs in a couple of years and they need more shooting.
Well how the playoffs unroll will be interesting. If the Magic win this first-round series, compete well against the Celtics, they should be more inclined to bring Issac back.
Still, I could see him being paid like Aaron Gordon or what OG is getting now, around $20-25 million a year, just mainly as a defensive specialist who can spot up for 3s.
If the Magic don't pay him, some team needing a 4 will.
I think whatever contract he signs will have some protections against injuries.
three3d wrote:Residual-Heat wrote:three3d wrote:
Another point is OKC is absolutely loaded with skill and youth along with assets like draft picks. Maybe the piece isn’t Giddey but they have plenty of other players that would help us. Just picture JI and Chet together or interchangeable. I’d like to establish a good relationship with a club that drafts as well as OKC also going towards the future. Nothing wrong with building a relationship that could help us in the future.
No offense, but i couldnt care less about any of that. I am picturing JI on the Magic, helping us win games in the play offs as he is currently doing.
We are 4-5 seasons away, what is JI doing for us then? We aren’t beating Boston this year, next season, or the season after minus crazy stuff happening. The most valuable piece we’d have is also our most injured player.
I would say the same about Carter. Weltman doesn't like change and the Carter/Isaac/Moe C/PF rotation seems to work. I don't see them breaking that up. Cole will be back too.Knightro wrote:Trading Isaac is incredibly difficult. His injury history is so expansive that it's impossible to get fair value in return.
He's more valuable to the Magic even playing 15-20 MPG than what they'd get back for him.
I think it's a near certainty he's back next season.
Knightro wrote:three3d wrote:Knightro wrote:Trading Isaac is incredibly difficult. His injury history is so expansive that it's impossible to get fair value in return.
He's more valuable to the Magic even playing 15-20 MPG than what they'd get back for him.
I think it's a near certainty he's back next season.
If you were OKC would you consider a guy like Cason Wallace and or Jalen Williams for Isaac?
Maybe I’m putting to much trust in the Thunder’s draft history and trade results but they have shown they are right more often then not. I’d be willing to take a shot on one of their young pieces being able to be a star with another team in a bigger role.
Jalen Williams obviously not. He's going to be a top 20 NBA player in short order.
I wouldn't trade Isaac for Cason Wallace if I were the Magic. Wallace is a nice prospect, but the Magic already have multiple young guards that are going to need playing time to develop. Adding another one to the mix doesn't make much sense to me.
If they're going to be adding a guard, it needs to be someone much more established and can step in to a big role without the growing pains of a young player.
My preference tooKnightro wrote:How I see it...
Core Players: Banchero, F. Wagner, Suggs
Players I'd prefer to keep, but would still include in the perfect deal: Black, Howard, Isaac, M. Wagner
Players I wouldn't be upset if they stay or go: Carter, Anthony, Houstan, Bitadze
Players I actively hope are not here next year: Fultz, Harris, Ingles, Okeke
thelead wrote:JI is 26 and ‘doesn’t fit the timeline’… what are we even talking about???
Knightro wrote:What's the most you would pay for Malik Monk in free agency?
The most he can get from Sacramento is 4/78.
three3d wrote:That would be idea for the Magic, but if you where JI would you be willing to do that? He’s earned his payday and we either have to pay him and forget the injury history or use him to get a valuable piece for the future sooner than later.
Knightro wrote:three3d wrote:That would be idea for the Magic, but if you where JI would you be willing to do that? He’s earned his payday and we either have to pay him and forget the injury history or use him to get a valuable piece for the future sooner than later.
I strongly suspect that Jonathan Isaac has an extreme sense of loyalty to this front office for sticking with him and for, quite frankly, paying him a lot more money than he deserved or was going to be able to earn based on the injuries they knew that he had.
By the time this current contract runs out, Jonathan Isaac will have about $92M in career earnings, and he'll have played the equivalent of about 3.5 seasons in 8 years in the league.
I'm not saying he's for sure going to take a discount, but the Magic have absolutely positively done right by him throughout his entire career and I can't imagine he's looking to go anywhere.
Residual-Heat wrote:Knightro wrote:What's the most you would pay for Malik Monk in free agency?
The most he can get from Sacramento is 4/78.
About 4/88. Thats an extra 10 mill for him, and should be enough to tempt him to leave.
