Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

[eyriq]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

[zuppafly]

If you had told me, last October, that we'd be here talking about a real chance of moving on to the second round of the playoffs, I'd call you a homer.

Whatever happens now, this is already a very positive season.

Of course I'll be disappointed, mad, sad, if we lose the next two. But on the grand scheme of things, our super young core did overachieve already.

Next we'll need a good offseason, capturing talent (and talent that knows how to shoot), so we can be an ECF candidate next season. One step at a time is great. Two - like this season - is even better.

[Residual-Heat]

The Orlando Magic have a superpower, and it’s love (for each other)

https://theathletic.com/5456652/2024/04/29/orlando-magic-togetherness/

I'm kind of partial to things like shooting and passing...but love's nice I guess

Eventually (hopefully this off-season) we will make a move, but no doubt the team chemistry has played a big role in the team's success this season.

[Skybox]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

Things are becoming clearer...Tell you what, for all of the holes in Mo's game, that's a guy that's not shook up by big moments. He's the same and fearless. Definitely not a premier player, but the playoffs reveals a lot about mental makeup.

[eyriq]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

Things are becoming clearer...Tell you what, for all of the holes in Mo's game, that's a guy that's not shook up by big moments. He's the same and fearless. Definitely not a premier player, but the playoffs reveals a lot about mental makeup.

Top 8 over the last two wins?

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
WCJ
Harris
Fultz
JI
Moritz

Cole

Interesting that Fultz is getting significantly more burn.

+/- is interesting as well

Franz +64
Fultz +44
Isaac +42
Moritz +41
Suggs +39
Paolo +35
Cole +31
WCJ +25

Harris +17

[drsd]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

The Magic is running a 10-man rotation, so here are Mr #9 and Mr #10, and all mpg played top to bottom
Franz Wagner 36.3
Paolo Banchero 35.3
Jalen Suggs 29.5
Gary Harris 28
Jonathan Isaac 21
Wendell Carter Jr. 20.5
Moritz Wagner 16.8
Cole Anthony 14.8
Markelle Fultz 13.8
Joe Ingles 10.8


So: Suggs is on the court more than double Fultz is. And F-Wagner is definitely not getting breathers give how low the mpg total is for Ingles.

I like the above list. It is starters-focused But is not ridiculous with the stars doing 40+ per game.

But lets be fair about the totals, game-3 gave a lot of bench minutes. So this is all a bit skewed.

[drsd]

+/- is interesting as well

Franz +64
Fultz +44
Isaac +42
Moritz +41
Suggs +39
Paolo +35
Cole +31
WCJ +25

Harris +17

To finalize the rotational players, Ingles scores in as Mr. Negativity in cumulative plus/minus logging a minus-7 over these 4 games. That is, he has been the worst player on this team, even though he is getting hte least minutes. Hmm.

So, here's a stat: [cumulative plus/minus] per [minutes per game]; CPM/MPG

Example for F-Wagner, +64PM/36.3MPG = 1.76
I guess this is saying that for every minute F-Wagner is on the court, on average, Orlando is scoring 1.76 points more than the opponent. Sounds a bit like VOPR.

Here's how all players are on this metric:
Markelle Fultz 3.19
Moritz Wagner 2.44
Cole Anthony 2.09
Jonathan Isaac 2.00
Franz Wagner 1.76
Jalen Suggs 1.32
Wendell Carter Jr. 1.22
Paolo Banchero 0.99
Gary Harris 0.61
Joe Ingles -0.65


I'm not fully sure what this list shows. Some thoughts: FUltz has provided quality minutes. M-Wagner is a gangster. Anthony and Isaac have both been quite OK. F-Wagner is clearly the Magic's best starter, by this metric. Suggs and Carter brought their lunch pails as the clocked in for work! G-Harris is a ghost. And Jingles should not be on the court. Is that about correct?

And what does it mean for Banchero then?

[SOUL]

+/- is just not a very good stat that people use way too much lol, including myself sometimes.

[Rainwater]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

I feel like mins are kinda irrelevant as it depends on the context of that game. Let’s use Paolo for example. Played the most mins in games 1 and 2. Played fewer mins in games 3 in a blow out win and got in early foul trouble in another blowout win.

[drsd]

+/- is just not a very good stat that people use way too much lol, including myself sometimes.

And-1

Seriously, what proportion of Fultz' plus/minus had ANYTHING to do with him. Half? Maybe. He had a couple nice scoring bursts. But he is not "The most important man on the court." Let's get real.

[fendilim]

Top 8 in minutes to far these playoffs

Franz
Paolo
Suggs
Harris
JI
WCJ
Moe
Cole

Franz ahead of Paolo, JI way up, Cole way down

pretty much as expected with Cole. Small guards are almost always exploited in the playoffs. Also, two way players are more important.

[SOUL]

Wonder if we'll get off to a better start this game:

G1: 6-0 Cavs start
G2: 5-0 Cavs start
G3: 6-0 Cavs start
G4: 6-0 Cavs start

Wonder what it is with the beginning of games lol

[eyriq]

Wonder if we'll get off to a better start this game:

G1: 6-0 Cavs start
G2: 5-0 Cavs start
G3: 6-0 Cavs start
G4: 6-0 Cavs start

Wonder what it is with the beginning of games lol

Man, we are due a good start!

[JoshuaPotter]

+/- is interesting as well

Franz +64
Fultz +44
Isaac +42
Moritz +41
Suggs +39
Paolo +35
Cole +31
WCJ +25

Harris +17

To finalize the rotational players, Ingles scores in as Mr. Negativity in cumulative plus/minus logging a minus-7 over these 4 games. That is, he has been the worst player on this team, even though he is getting hte least minutes. Hmm.

So, here's a stat: [cumulative plus/minus] per [minutes per game]; CPM/MPG

Example for F-Wagner, +64PM/36.3MPG = 1.76
I guess this is saying that for every minute F-Wagner is on the court, on average, Orlando is scoring 1.76 points more than the opponent. Sounds a bit like VOPR.

Here's how all players are on this metric:
Markelle Fultz 3.19
Moritz Wagner 2.44
Cole Anthony 2.09
Jonathan Isaac 2.00
Franz Wagner 1.76
Jalen Suggs 1.32
Wendell Carter Jr. 1.22
Paolo Banchero 0.99
Gary Harris 0.61
Joe Ingles -0.65


I'm not fully sure what this list shows. Some thoughts: FUltz has provided quality minutes. M-Wagner is a gangster. Anthony and Isaac have both been quite OK. F-Wagner is clearly the Magic's best starter, by this metric. Suggs and Carter brought their lunch pails as the clocked in for work! G-Harris is a ghost. And Jingles should not be on the court. Is that about correct?

And what does it mean for Banchero then?

Banchero likely got the most minutes while behind or falling behind the most. Say what you will. Especially after the last game I think hurt his stats the most.

[drsd]

Recent pressers:

Coach confirms the team is 100% healthy.

Banchero reveals how zen the team is and really gave a convincing argument that game-5 will be play by play, without ever getting caught up in the moment. AND: that the team expects to win this series. There is a calm certainty about that in his voice!

[bigdogdylan5]

The Orlando Magic have a superpower, and it’s love (for each other)

https://theathletic.com/5456652/2024/04/29/orlando-magic-togetherness/

We can all forget about bringing in some mercenary guard for a couple years. It'll be character first and shooting second. For better or worse.

Just pray they move on from Fultz.

I don’t think necessarily they won’t bring in a guard. But I would 100% expect them if they do to bring a guy who fits the culture. They will be picky about it which people will accuse them of being lazy if they don’t do it… people get hyper focused on the flaws but can you tell them they are wrong? They have rebuilt this team to be competitive in the playoffs in 3 years with young players being the leaders. That accomplishment is incredible if you take the time to think about it. All that being said I think it’s pretty obvious that we’re kinda capping out our ceiling on defense. The next avenue for improving the team is the offense. I do think they are banking on internal improvement for that. No one wants to hear that though. I will keep saying everyone wants to bring in good guard x that makes a lot of money and trading our picks to do it. That’s great but in two years you have to either get rid of that guard or move on from Franz, Paolo, or (Suggs and Isaac). You can’t have Franz making 35-40, Paolo on a max, Suggs making 27, Isaac making 20 and have a 30-40 max guard. I don’t see the Magic making a trade all picks trade. With these new apron rules draft picks will become way more valuable as you will need cheap players to fill out roster.

All that being said they need to bring in players that can can provide shooting on 1-2 year contracts. **** overpay them for those years. Ideally you only need one as Jett should be able to help. Fultz and ingles has to go. Black and Jett should be given consistent playing time

[eyriq]

The Orlando Magic have a superpower, and it’s love (for each other)

https://theathletic.com/5456652/2024/04/29/orlando-magic-togetherness/

We can all forget about bringing in some mercenary guard for a couple years. It'll be character first and shooting second. For better or worse.

Just pray they move on from Fultz.

I don’t think necessarily they won’t bring in a guard. But I would 100% expect them if they do to bring a guy who fits the culture. They will be picky about it which people will accuse them of being lazy if they don’t do it… people get hyper focused on the flaws but can you tell them they are wrong? They have rebuilt this team to be competitive in the playoffs in 3 years with young players being the leaders. That accomplishment is incredible if you take the time to think about it. All that being said I think it’s pretty obvious that we’re kinda capping out our ceiling on defense. The next avenue for improving the team is the offense. I do think they are banking on internal improvement for that. No one wants to hear that though. I will keep saying everyone wants to bring in good guard x that makes a lot of money and trading our picks to do it. That’s great but in two years you have to either get rid of that guard or move on from Franz, Paolo, or (Suggs and Isaac). You can’t have Franz making 35-40, Paolo on a max, Suggs making 27, Isaac making 20 and have a 30-40 max guard. I don’t see the Magic making a trade all picks trade. With these new apron rules draft picks will become way more valuable as you will need cheap players to fill out roster.

All that being said they need to bring in players that can can provide shooting on 1-2 year contracts. **** overpay them for those years. Ideally you only need one as Jett should be able to help. Fultz and ingles has to go. Black and Jett should be given consistent playing time

I would bet money our starting backcourt is already on the roster.

[Knightro]

I would bet money our starting backcourt is already on the roster.

If next year's starting backcourt is already on the roster, I anticipate the Magic having both a worse record and lower seed next year than they had this year.

[bigdogdylan5]

I would bet money our starting backcourt is already on the roster.

Agree most likely scenario is starting lineup stays the same. Black takes Ingles role as an initiator backup for Franz and Jett replaces Fultz.

[eyriq]

I would bet money our starting backcourt is already on the roster.

If next year's starting backcourt is already on the roster, I anticipate the Magic having both a worse record and lower seed next year than they had this year.

You'd have to break this down for me, I don't see how running it back = setback