Cavaliers vs Magic Series General Discussion Thread

[pepe1991]

It's pedantic. In that case, Isaac can be PG because he can guard them.

He's still lacking major traditional aspects of what makes point guards dynamic so far. I won't doubt in his ability to get better there, but usually you have it or you don't.

Since whole this turns into random BS spitting here are few revolutionazing ideas:
Don't have Mosley in arena, let him coach from his home and talk to players via zoom. he will have better court vision and feel more comfortable.

Have Mortiz Wagner in stands , so he can lead fans in cheering. Hell, when he comes to play, he will walk from stands like Sting in WCW. He might paint his face in black&white and enter a game with baseball bat.
Franz will enter game from rafters, also painted as Sting, but red version.

Have Banchero cherrypick on offense so he can be leading scorer. ON defense Goga- Isaac- Suggs- Harris. They will menage 4 on 5.

Take 0 threes.

Insert goon in first min to break arm of Mitchell.

Put laxatives in Cavs players drinks.

Send them hooker on night before game in hotel.

[dsg2021]

It's pedantic. In that case, Isaac can be PG because he can guard them.

He's still lacking major traditional aspects of what makes point guards dynamic so far. I won't doubt in his ability to get better there, but usually you have it or you don't.

Since whole this turns into random BS spitting here are few revolutionazing ideas:
Don't have Mosley in arena, let him coach from his home and talk to players via zoom. he will have better court vision and feel more comfortable.

Have Mortiz Wagner in stands , so he can lead fans in cheering. Hell, when he comes to play, he will walk from stands like Sting in WCW. He might paint his face in black&white and enter a game with baseball bat.
Franz will enter game from rafters, also painted as Sting, but red version.

Have Banchero cherrypick on offense so he can be leading scorer. ON defense Goga- Isaac- Suggs- Harris. They will menage 4 on 5.

Take 0 threes.

Insert goon in first min to break arm of Mitchell.

Put laxatives in Cavs players drinks.

Send them hooker on night before game in hotel.

This is 100x better than my post a few replies earlier

[drsd]

Insert goon in first min to break arm of Mitchell.

Put laxatives in Cavs players drinks.

Send them hooker on night before game in hotel.

Almost surprising that fan-opponents don't do more harm to athletes to help their team win.

When The Fan (1996 film) came out, I was actually kind of worried that it would lead to a number of athlete attacks.

[Skybox]

Just (attempting to) draft PGs doesn't mean we actually have a viable one on the roster.

You can spit out the words "sunk costs" regularly without actually getting it

You still at it, eh?

That was a layup...for illustrative purposes.

[The-Stallion70]

Our offense is not good but against this team it will look even worse because they have Mobley, Allen and Nieng who can each defend Paolo without having to double team.

If we played Sixers, Paolo is defended by Tobias Harris

If we played Knicks, Paolo is defended by Anunoby

If we played Pacers, Paolo is defended by Siakam or Toppin. Siakam is more of an offensive player now.

All of these matchups are preferable to Mobley, Allen and Nieng.

We don't match up well with them.

[The-Stallion70]

It's pedantic. In that case, Isaac can be PG because he can guard them.

He's still lacking major traditional aspects of what makes point guards dynamic so far. I won't doubt in his ability to get better there, but usually you have it or you don't.

Have Mortiz Wagner in stands , so he can lead fans in cheering. Hell, when he comes to play, he will walk from stands like Sting in WCW. He might paint his face in black&white and enter a game with baseball bat.
Franz will enter game from rafters, also painted as Sting, but red version.

There is literally nothing I could possibly conceive as being more frightening than this.

[p0peye]

Our offense is not good but against this team it will look even worse because they have Mobley, Allen and Nieng who can each defend Paolo without having to double team.

If we played Sixers, Paolo is defended by Tobias Harris

If we played Knicks, Paolo is defended by Anunoby

If we played Pacers, Paolo is defended by Siakam or Toppin. Siakam is more of an offensive player now.

All of these matchups are preferable to Mobley, Allen and Nieng.

We don't match up well with them.

So, what you are saying is that 1-1 defense is what is bothering Magic as a team in this matchup, because we can't force a switch with a screen and that teams other than Cavs have to use only 1 specific defender for him. Yep, that solves the problem.

[JoshuaPotter]

Interesting presser from Coach:
Basically he stated that nothing will change and that his coaching to the teams was to, "step in to your shots and make them". Yeh. Sure. It's all that simple!

No offense drsd. But what is there to change too? Start Anthony Black or Houstan? Or make them one of the firsts off the bench? No really.

The Cavs are taking our best lineup and daring our low volume high % shooters to fire away as if it was 3-ball drills out there. We do not have a high volume high % 3-ball shooter to shove in that corner and act as a magnet.

Ergo, coach is right. (Can't believe I am saying that as I do not agree with a lot of Coach choices.) He is playing the hand he is dealt, his players have open shots, they shot a decent clip all season. They need to find their confidence and make em.

I even saw him adapt and play Houstan in what presumably would be Fultz minutes.

We both share the same opinion that if AB can't crack this rotation now, will he ever? Same with Houstan / Howard. Thank goodness AB / Howard are rookies and I won't toss the baby out with the bath water as the saying goes.

[drsd]

Road vs. Home this season.

On the road, the Magic takes 84.9 FGA per game.
At home, the Magic takes 84.9 FGA per game.
Exactly the same.

There is a slightly better 3ball FG% and a much better overall FG%. And the FT make rate is higher at home.
All this adds up to the Magic 4.3 PPG at home than on the road.

[The-Stallion70]

Our offense is not good but against this team it will look even worse because they have Mobley, Allen and Nieng who can each defend Paolo without having to double team.

If we played Sixers, Paolo is defended by Tobias Harris

If we played Knicks, Paolo is defended by Anunoby

If we played Pacers, Paolo is defended by Siakam or Toppin. Siakam is more of an offensive player now.

All of these matchups are preferable to Mobley, Allen and Nieng.

We don't match up well with them.

So, what you are saying is that 1-1 defense is what is bothering Magic as a team in this matchup, because we can't force a switch with a screen and that teams other than Cavs have to use only 1 specific defender for him. Yep, that solves the problem.

You underestimate how good Mobley is. 7 foot with his wingspan and doesn't have the biggest role on offense so he saves his energy for defense.

Go down the rosters of the teams I mentioned and find a line of three defenders who match up with Paolo as well as the Cavs.

Anyone can sit there and tear down an argument buy can you actually come up with one on your own? Based on what ive seen, the answer is obviously no.

[p0peye]

Our offense is not good but against this team it will look even worse because they have Mobley, Allen and Nieng who can each defend Paolo without having to double team.

If we played Sixers, Paolo is defended by Tobias Harris

If we played Knicks, Paolo is defended by Anunoby

If we played Pacers, Paolo is defended by Siakam or Toppin. Siakam is more of an offensive player now.

All of these matchups are preferable to Mobley, Allen and Nieng.

We don't match up well with them.

So, what you are saying is that 1-1 defense is what is bothering Magic as a team in this matchup, because we can't force a switch with a screen and that teams other than Cavs have to use only 1 specific defender for him. Yep, that solves the problem.

You underestimate how good Mobley is. 7 foot with his wingspan and doesn't have the biggest role on offense so he saves his energy for defense.

Go down the rosters of the teams I mentioned and find a line of three defenders who match up with Paolo as well as the Cavs.

Anyone can sit there and tear down an argument buy can you actually come up with one on your own? Based on what ive seen, the answer is obviously no.

The point I am making is that having good 1-1 defender to cover Paolo is not the reason we are getting a beating. Yes, Cavs can matchup Paolo with a multiple defenders that can stop him in single coverage, but that is not what teams need to stop Magic. Any team can send help or zone up to contain dribble penetration from Paolo and Franz, which in most nights result in Magic failing to reach 100 points. You don't need some advanced understanding of defensive schemes to see that, once teams got enough scouting on us, it happened frequently throughout season.

When our role players have hot shooting night, which more often than not is at home, we typically do well - but many of them are essentially non-shooters and all of them are streaky. Regular season defense allows more hot shooting nights than playoffs, teams are laser focused and play hard now.

We are struggling because a) our roster is flawed, especially at guard spots, and b) because Paolo and Franz have more developing to do to be a good 1st and 2nd option. We like the idea of big point forwards as playmakers, but they are not at that level to take on such role in playoffs yet. While we cannot speed-up time to address issue (b), we didn't move a finger to address issue (a) at trade deadline, hence the results.

[IllMagic04]

We have the ability to lay as many bricks at home as on the road so there no guarantee we shot it well tonight either. But we just HAVE to shoot better tonight. As bad as we are we aren't this bad. The Cavs aren't exactly lighting it up either. Nightmare scenario is we finally start making shots but so do the Cavs

[The-Stallion70]

Interesting presser from Coach:
Basically he stated that nothing will change and that his coaching to the teams was to, "step in to your shots and make them". Yeh. Sure. It's all that simple!

No offense drsd. But what is there to change too? Start Anthony Black or Houstan? Or make them one of the firsts off the bench? No really.

Franz was 5-17 and 6TO. He has to dominate his matchup against Strus.

If we isolate him more or rather run more plays to get him going this is what needs to happen for the Magic to win the next game in my opinion.

[The-Stallion70]

The point I am making is that having good 1-1 defender to cover Paolo is not the reason we are getting a beating.

I disagree, I would argue that this is the primary reason why. Their team is more talented top to bottom but the fact they can throw exceptional defenders at our no.1 creator is why our bad offense has been historically bad in 2 playoff games.

Yes, Cavs can matchup Paolo with a multiple defenders that can stop him in single coverage, but that is not what teams need to stop Magic.

What is then? Our offense is not good at all and it is even worse if our best offensive player has an exceptional defender in Mobley and Nieng on him. Now other guys' shots are not as open. Now other guys can't play off of him as well.

I wouldn't agree that they can straight up "stop" him but they have the best defenders to throw at him among the Knicks, Pacers, Sixers and the Bucks as currently constructed without Giannis. Often the Magic's offense does boil down into Paolo creating something so this is the chief reason why.

Any team can send help or zone up to contain dribble penetration from Paolo and Franz, which in most nights result in Magic failing to reach 100 points. You don't need some advanced understanding of defensive schemes to see that, once teams got enough scouting on us, it happened frequently throughout season.

Do you actually have the data for this? Do you actually know if in the instances when the opposing teams played zone, these were the games where the Magic failed to reach 100 points, as you state? If not then you are wrong again and it seems to me that we would shoot better than 23% from three if they were playing alot of zone.

You dont need an advanced understanding of defensive schemes to know this.

When our role players have hot shooting night, which more often than not is at home, we typically do well - but many of them are essentially non-shooters and all of them are streaky. Regular season defense allows more hot shooting nights than playoffs, teams are laser focused and play hard now.

We are struggling because a) our roster is flawed,

At 47-35 our roster is less flawed than teams with worse records. Whether or not our roster is "Flawed" is more of a big picture question and doesn't directly apply to this current roster playing the Cavs in this series. We can sit here and imagine all day what we would like the roster to look like. The Question im asking is what are the problems the team is having against the current Cavs team.

b) because Paolo and Franz have more developing to do to be a good 1st and 2nd option. We like the idea of big point forwards as playmakers, but they are not at that level to take on such role in playoffs yet. While we cannot speed-up time to address issue (b),

I don't necessarily agree with this, the idea that our guys are not ready just because they are young( as i assume you mean is the reason why they cannot do it "yet". The fact is our team's two best player are big point forwards and you have to take your talent any way you can get in the NBA so you make due. Are you suggesting that we trade Franz for Trae Young? This is a better idea?

we didn't move a finger to address issue (a) at trade deadline, hence the results.

This I agree with. There were clear problems with the roster and there appeared to be things we could have done to address the shooting problem. Difficult to see Mcdermott get moved for a second rounder to a team other than ours.

[p0peye]

.

I was speaking about what I saw, but here now I did simple google search for Magic and zone defense and first link was Cohen's article going into matchup with Cavs with some data on zone:

In the four regular season meetings between Orlando and Cleveland this season combined, there were 24 shots taken by the Magic while the Cavs were in a zone defense, per data. Orlando only made seven of those shots (29.2 percent), which was one of the Magic’s worst marks against any team playing zone.

In general, the Magic saw a zone defense more than any other team this season. They took a league-most 413 shots against a zone and made 44.3 percent of them, which ranked 17th. Banchero and Franz ranked No. 1 and No. 2, respectively, in shots taken with the defense in a zone.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/5-interesting-things-to-think-about-ahead-of-the-orlando-magic-vs-cleveland-cavaliers-playoff-series

My point was, again missed: teams do not have to play 1-on-1 defense against Paolo and Franz, they can zone up or help from the nail and simply not rotate because we can't shoot. The fact that Cavs can matchup does not change end result. It helps a lot when they play better teams, but no team in right mind bothers themselves how they will defend Orlando - it is that simple. That is why we are the team constantly playing against zone - as Cohen wrote.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Watching Jalen interview at shootaround. He has a chipped tooth in his top front teeth. Is that new? Never noticed it before

[tooler]

If games 3 and 4 go like games 1 and 2, I'd consider this to be a somewhat fail of a season. These games are not close, we are not competitive. Getting swept by a Cavs team that isn't very good, and finishing the regular season the way we did, ouch.

They saved the season.

[SOUL]

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[pepe1991]

Where were you at May 4th, 2010?

That's, i belive, biggest Magic playoff win ever ( vs Atlanta, whooping 114-71), that's also one of biggest playoff margin of victories in history all together.


May 8th, 2010 - April 25th 2024- second and third time in past 14 years that we blew up somebody by 30+.

[Message Boar]

Where were you at May 4th, 2010?

That's, i belive, biggest Magic playoff win ever ( vs Atlanta, whooping 114-71), that's also one of biggest playoff margin of victories in history all together.


May 8th, 2010 - April 25th 2024- second and third time in past 14 years that we blew up somebody by 30+.

I seem to remember us dominating the hawks that series, so I was likely at home watching on some computer.

It's been a while since we had a home playoff win in general, right?