2024 NBA Playoffs Round 1 Game 5: (5) Orlando Magic at (4) Cleveland Cavaliers - Series Tied 2-2

[Knightro]

Not really. I'm saying that the cost benefit of the players you are talking about matters in the grand scheme of things.

People are talking about re-inventing the wheel for a team that has a few missing ingredients and not another main course. I'm not opposed to Monk. I just disagree with the reasoning behind acquiring him if it means not solving the point guard issue. Tyus Jones is just an example of a point guard at that value level, rather than suggesting he's the better player 1:1.

In terms of Monk specifically, I think you have to believe his skillset translates to him being on the basketball for 30 MPG in a starting role as a lead guard in order to be willing to commit 20M AAV or more to get him out of Sacramento.

If you don't believe that to be the case for him, which is perfectly reasonable because I'm not sure it is either, then I just wouldn't sign him.

Paul George is different story. He's still a tremendously good basketball player and should be able to keep playing at his current all-star caliber level for at least the next two years.

I just think on ability alone you'd have to bring him in if it would cost nothing more than cap space. It's incredibly rare to be able to just outright sign a guy in free agency who made an all-star team the previous two years.

[MagicMatic]

Not really. I'm saying that the cost benefit of the players you are talking about matters in the grand scheme of things.

People are talking about re-inventing the wheel for a team that has a few missing ingredients and not another main course. I'm not opposed to Monk. I just disagree with the reasoning behind acquiring him if it means not solving the point guard issue. Tyus Jones is just an example of a point guard at that value level, rather than suggesting he's the better player 1:1.

In terms of Monk specifically, I think you have to believe his skillset translates to him being on the basketball for 30 MPG in a starting role as a lead guard in order to be willing to commit 20M AAV or more to get him out of Sacramento.

If you don't believe that to be the case for him, which is perfectly reasonable because I'm not sure it is either, then I just wouldn't sign him.

Paul George is different story. He's still a tremendously good basketball player and should be able to keep playing at his current all-star caliber level for at least the next two years.

I just think on ability alone you'd have to bring him in if it would cost nothing more than cap space. It's incredibly rare to be able to just outright sign a guy in free agency who made an all-star team the previous two years.

Yeah, I don't believe Monk translates to "filling in" at either guard spot to upgrade whatever Gary is or isn't giving us. He doesn't solve what people think he would. I'm not into the idea that Suggs comes off the bench either if the solution is to acquire both a PG and Monk.

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

[basketballRob]

You don’t need a traditional PG in this scenario. We don’t bring in PG13 if the FO doesn’t think he can start with Paolo, Franz, and Suggs. I’m certain of that.

I think Im going to have an aneurysm if I have to read another proposal about how adding a volume SG is the solution to Orlandos problems. Are we even watching the same team? Paolo has an insane amount of TO's per game.

You don't heavily invest in TWO 6'10-6'11 wing offensive engines to then bring in a volume shooting guard to take more possessions away from them. You bring in a point guard to set the table for them and open up easier baskets so they aren't turning the ball over a million times.

That is why Suggs is the perfect archetype next to them at SG. He doesn't need to score, but when he does it means Orlando wins games. Yes, he needs to be more consistent game to game. Every young player does. No, Suggs is not a traditional point guard. He's a guard and always has been.

People are wanting to solve one problem, which in turn ends up creating more problems. You don't need to take possessions away from the core. They need to make the possessions more efficient. You aren't accomplishing that with another ball stopping wing. Paolo and Franz are on the floor to score. Make their lives easier by getting a point guard that isnt broken and can run an offense. We don't need to watch Paolo ISO dudes 20 feet from the basket, pretending to be a point forward, while everyone stands around and watches. It's just mind numbingly stupid predictable offense.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

if you have the 22nd ranked offense and have the ability to bring in players who can score 20-25 PPG on .600 TS% and also create good shots for teammates like a Paul George and all it would cost is cap space is obviously very beneficial.

If this is more about Monk... I'd argue that the only way it would be worth it to sign him would be if you believe he's ready to transition to full time starting point guard. If you don't think that, then he probably isn't worth pursuing.

Monk's value, at least to me, is in his playmaking ability more than his scoring - which extrapolated over a starting role certainly looks like it's point guard caliber. But I'm not sure that's risk the Magic's front office is willing to take.

Paul George is a really good defender, too.

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[Skin]

You'd fix the problem twofold with a point guard that CAN shoot, rather than a shooter that fills in as a guy that can kind of run an offense. One is a more difficult skillset and one is more common. Just because Orlando lacks shooting everywhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere in players with more diverse skillsets.

My argument is that Orlando's offense is ranked 22nd not because there arent more efficient shooters to take possessions away from guys. It's because Franz and Paolo are entirely efficient while ALSO not having an extra shooter on the perimeter. If Im comparing two players based on cost and impact on acquisition Im leaning toward someone like 7.5/1 - A/TO Tyus Jones next to Suggs with a .400 3p% rather than a more expensive Monk at 5.2/2 - A/TO and a .453 3p% pretending to run point guard.

Paul George solves nothing outside of an established star veteran that has won nothing and will take possessions away from the core.

If you're trying to sit there and say Tyus Jones would be a better acquisition piece than Paul George or Malik Monk...

I don't know man. I'm all for a point guard who can shoot, but talent is also talent.

I'm in the camp of getting Tyus Jones. I think his fit would be harmonious with our core. He facilitates, he rarely turns over the ball, he can hit respectively from 3, is a pretty decen defender, and he's young.

As far as Monk goes, I'm anti-Monk. I don't even trust him launching 3s. Just because he does it and he gets hot sometimes, he's often cold too. ...and he's not a PG, he's an undersized SG and he doesn't focus on defense. I'm also not in the "we don't need a PG" camp.

I would be thrilled with Tyus, but I think the most ideal player for us to get is Dejounte Murray, but it would require a trade and loss of something really good. I'd do Anthony Black, Wendell Carter, our 2024 1st, our 2026 1st and cap filler. Is that enough?

Murray is the type of guard that I would be fine having Suggs in the starting line up with.

[Knightro]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

[RichCollab]

You'd fix the problem twofold with a point guard that CAN shoot, rather than a shooter that fills in as a guy that can kind of run an offense. One is a more difficult skillset and one is more common. Just because Orlando lacks shooting everywhere doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere in players with more diverse skillsets.

My argument is that Orlando's offense is ranked 22nd not because there arent more efficient shooters to take possessions away from guys. It's because Franz and Paolo are entirely efficient while ALSO not having an extra shooter on the perimeter. If Im comparing two players based on cost and impact on acquisition Im leaning toward someone like 7.5/1 - A/TO Tyus Jones next to Suggs with a .400 3p% rather than a more expensive Monk at 5.2/2 - A/TO and a .453 3p% pretending to run point guard.

Paul George solves nothing outside of an established star veteran that has won nothing and will take possessions away from the core.

If you're trying to sit there and say Tyus Jones would be a better acquisition piece than Paul George or Malik Monk...

I don't know man. I'm all for a point guard who can shoot, but talent is also talent.

I'm in the camp of getting Tyus Jones. I think his fit would be harmonious with our core. He facilitates, he rarely turns over the ball, he can hit respectively from 3, is a pretty decen defender, and he's young.

As far as Monk goes, I'm anti-Monk. I don't even trust him launching 3s. Just because he does it and he gets hot sometimes, he's often cold too. ...and he's not a PG, he's an undersized SG and he doesn't focus on defense. I'm also not in the "we don't need a PG" camp.

I would be thrilled with Tyus, but I think the most ideal player for us to get is Dejounte Murray, but it would require a trade and loss of something really good. I'd do Anthony Black, Wendell Carter, our 2024 1st, our 2026 1st and cap filler. Is that enough?

Murray is the type of guard that I would be fine having Suggs in the starting line up with.

Tyus Jones will be targeted on defense and is pretty mid.

[thelead]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

I would be onboard with a max offer for PG... but... would we better off not chasing the 'sexy' name and instead sign Hartenstein + Fontecchio + trading WCJ plus more for a starting guard?

[Audi]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

Also the lack of efficiency is an underlying issue rooted in lack of experience...which time should/will continue to sort out.

[eyriq]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

TBH it seems like reducing their reps. Reducing their reps extends the learning curve. I think we need to compliment the core, not cannibalize their reps.

[Knightro]

TBH it seems like reducing their reps. Reducing their reps extends the learning curve. I think we need to complement the core, not cannibalize their reps.

PG only had a 26 USG% this year.

That isn’t some crazy number that can’t be easily accommodated.

[Skin]

If you're trying to sit there and say Tyus Jones would be a better acquisition piece than Paul George or Malik Monk...

I don't know man. I'm all for a point guard who can shoot, but talent is also talent.

I'm in the camp of getting Tyus Jones. I think his fit would be harmonious with our core. He facilitates, he rarely turns over the ball, he can hit respectively from 3, is a pretty decen defender, and he's young.

As far as Monk goes, I'm anti-Monk. I don't even trust him launching 3s. Just because he does it and he gets hot sometimes, he's often cold too. ...and he's not a PG, he's an undersized SG and he doesn't focus on defense. I'm also not in the "we don't need a PG" camp.

I would be thrilled with Tyus, but I think the most ideal player for us to get is Dejounte Murray, but it would require a trade and loss of something really good. I'd do Anthony Black, Wendell Carter, our 2024 1st, our 2026 1st and cap filler. Is that enough?

Murray is the type of guard that I would be fine having Suggs in the starting line up with.

Tyus Jones will be targeted on defense and is pretty mid.

Yeah, but of all positions a PG's defense is the least important.

[MagicMatic]

If you're trying to sit there and say Tyus Jones would be a better acquisition piece than Paul George or Malik Monk...

I don't know man. I'm all for a point guard who can shoot, but talent is also talent.

I'm in the camp of getting Tyus Jones. I think his fit would be harmonious with our core. He facilitates, he rarely turns over the ball, he can hit respectively from 3, is a pretty decen defender, and he's young.

As far as Monk goes, I'm anti-Monk. I don't even trust him launching 3s. Just because he does it and he gets hot sometimes, he's often cold too. ...and he's not a PG, he's an undersized SG and he doesn't focus on defense. I'm also not in the "we don't need a PG" camp.

I would be thrilled with Tyus, but I think the most ideal player for us to get is Dejounte Murray, but it would require a trade and loss of something really good. I'd do Anthony Black, Wendell Carter, our 2024 1st, our 2026 1st and cap filler. Is that enough?

Murray is the type of guard that I would be fine having Suggs in the starting line up with.

Tyus Jones will be targeted on defense and is pretty mid.

As opposed to what? Markelle Fultz? Gary Harris filling in as one?

If Orlando has a top 5 defense right now and a bottom 5 offense, then I think you need to make a calculated judgement as to why.

The point isnt necessarily about Tyus Jones. There are other options out there. But I think Magic fans have become so delusional about what point guards actually do to the composition of a team... This organization hasn't had a good one since Jameer Nelson and although I wasnt really on the forum at the time I wouldn't say he was the strongest positionally on that roster. So Penny?

Not sure why people are opposed to getting an actual starting point guard on this roster? In hindsight they would probably be many more years ahead of schedule than this roster already is if they just paid FVV. Too bad. Thats what happens when your FO gets used to not making decisions.

[AKAGoMagic15]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

PG would be an amazingly impactful addition and his fit is ideal as a volume 3 pt shooter and defensive wing, totally agree.

Would you be in favor of offering a 4 yr max since I’d imagine 76ers likely will do same? I remember seeing some comments suggesting 3 yr guaranteed, and as great as that would be I can’t imagine is realistic

[MagicMatic]

Paul George is a massively different story. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. I'm saying I would much rather Orlando upgrade the rest of the roster in more efficient ways collectively with that potential money by raising Paolo and Franz' ceiling, rather than paying a guy for 2 seasons as the next stop on his journeyman career. If they add him, great. He just doesn't solve the underlying issues himself.

PG might not address the whole “Paolo and Franz aren’t as efficient as we’d like them to be and we think a real point guard would help that” underlying issue.

But adding a very efficient scorer/shooter to a team that struggles to score feels like it precisely addresses one of the biggest needs on the team?

PG would be an amazingly impactful addition and his fit is ideal as a volume 3 pt shooter and defensive wing, totally agree.

Would you be in favor of offering a 4 yr max since I’d imagine 76ers likely will do same? I remember seeing some comments suggesting 3 yr guaranteed, and as great as that would be I can’t imagine is realistic

What does a starting lineup look like with PG?

[Knightro]

PG would be an amazingly impactful addition and his fit is ideal as a volume 3 pt shooter and defensive wing, totally agree.

Would you be in favor of offering a 4 yr max since I’d imagine 76ers likely will do same? I remember seeing some comments suggesting 3 yr guaranteed, and as great as that would be I can’t imagine is realistic

I'm pretty positive Philly will offer a 4 year max.

I would have a hard time with it, but if his agent said "hey Weltman we'll come to Orlando if you go to a 4th year" I'd probably have to say yes and just suck it up.

[Knightro]

What does a starting lineup look like with PG?

Suggs/Franz/George/Banchero/Carter

[MagicMatic]

What does a starting lineup look like with PG?

Suggs/Franz/George/Banchero/Carter

Then this doesn’t resolve the issue. It just adds more talent. There’s a difference.

[Skin]

What does a starting lineup look like with PG?

Suggs/Franz/George/Banchero/Carter

Suggs/George/Franz/Banchero/Carter

Also, I got to say... Paul George throwing praises at Paolo is making me feel optimistic!

[SOUL]

We're not taking the ball out of the hands of Paolo and Franz entirely, just having spread around ball-handling duties. Completely takes away their iso advantages too. Need to find a way where we don't just spam isos all the time but also not completely change the offense either until they become better well-rounded offensive threats. Tyus is a good option if we strike out on others, but seeing as we can add someone big this offseason, why not take the shot?

I don't think a "pure PG" really adds anything because it's not like we have 4 shooters to spray it out to. They might be able to get it to players' spots easier but it's not like we're missing Paolo on the deep block like he's Shaq. Just not his game. But if you could get a PG/SG that can attack the basket and make defenses collapse, that solves a big problem.

Need more data on Tyus three pointer too. Averages less than 4 a game and he's short as hell. I get that he has a nice percentage but we see Gary shoot nice percentages on low attempts and it's not as impactful as we like. We need some offensive gusto. We see these archetypes get exploited all the times in the playoffs unless they're a tough shot maker like Brunson, and even he's struggling a bit.

[Knightro]

What does a starting lineup look like with PG?

Suggs/Franz/George/Banchero/Carter

Then this doesn’t resolve the issue. It just adds more talent. There’s a difference.

I think there's a lot more of a trickle down effect than you do.

George is capable of playing way more minutes at a way higher level than Gary or Cole or Markelle. PG is also a high volume, high accuracy 3PT shooter which is a massive need as well.

The Magic would basically be able to have at least one of Paolo, Franz or George on the floor at all times, which means (assuming Paolo and Franz uptick like we think they can) you'll have at least one guy capable of scoring 20-25 points and dishing out 5+ on .600 TS% out on the court every minute of the game.

That's not nothing. Especially on a team that's struggled so badly to score points.