I hate this Narrative

[SOUL]

I mean, this is a fan specific narrative. Players don't feel this way. They put in a lot of work to get this far and if they lose in a game 7, they'd be very disappointed. But if they did all they could and it just wasn't good enough, what more could we ask of them?

It's up to fans if they think losing in a game 7 nobody really expected before this season would be enough to ruin their summer lol

[Bensational]

They really need to upgrade the uniforms if they want to get serious about winning a championship. We can't keep playing with these mid-blue tones. We need a proper cerulean blue. Amateur hour is over WeltPark!

[Skybox]

A far more persistent destroyer of teams has been doing too much, not doing too little. The Magic in 2011 tried to replace Rashard and Vince midseason instead of taking the time to find a good playmaker and a good perimeter scorer with some productive years left. The Magic traded Dipo because they wanted a non-rookie power forward (aka not Sabonis) and didn’t much care who it was or what they had to give up to get him.

The Suns ruined their rebuild by committing to an aging big three and neglecting other team needs. The Sixers ruined their rebuild by investing in Butler and Tobias.

What most fans see as complacency is, in my view, actually restraint. The FO have improved the team without squandering money or trade assets. The team still has needs, but the decision on who to invest in, when to invest, and if some all-in move or series of moves is even the best decision is something that could break the team if it’s done unwisely. So I don’t think it’s a sign of failure if the FO decides not to make the flurry of moves some people are expecting.

Now THATS a narrative…

Here’s a better one…Good moves are good. Bad moves are bad.

Moves are not, by definition, bad.

[pinoynurse]

pepe pretty much said it it. its not a narrative, its called context. this line of thinking that weve made it, going into the second round this year sets us up to make to impulsive, panic trades/signings with the belief that we are top 4 team now. As pepe mentioned, the hawks (much like the OP) disregarded the context of their ECF run and have been the most disappointing team ever since then, gave up a ton of draft capital, and now looking at an offseason of trading all their players.

the east was weak this year. all the best teams had injuries. we also had one of the easiest schedules towards the end (we didnt even capitalize it on it)

some of us want to build a sustainable winning team for a long time, not a team that wins for 2 years. its year 2 of the banchero era, patience is a virtue

[msmoore66]

I hate that everything is a narrative. It's like we learnt a new word recently or something. (Not aimed at the OP, just in general).

[The-Stallion70]

"Even if we lose this was a successful run for us."

Although I agree somewhat. This is a cop out. We can win this series. Winning this series takes our players/coaches/organizations mindset from winning a series next year to ECF. A game 7 away win after we have not won a game in CLE would level us up more than we can imagine. The management would have no other option but to make the proper moves to put us in a position for a legit ECF run next year. I want that.

Thing is, if we win, teams will look at us differently, but i don't really care about that.

I think that winning early will set somewhat uneralistic expetations going forward and give front office (false) sense of sucess and it could lead them toward idea of resign & run back.

Notion of "arrival" ruined Hawks rebuild. They went to ECF in 2021 with majority of guys being 22 & 23 years old.
They made minimal changes for next year, runned it back but second time around, teams started to pay more attention when they face them & prepare better.

During 2020-21 playoffs they faced first Knicks ( before Brunson ) with bunch of overrated mediocrities like Randle, RJ Barrett, Bullock , Rose etc, round 2, Ben Simmons meltdown and passing layups and out of nowhere they were playing in Eastern Conference Finals.

Next year around they fell apart in round 1, against first serious team, as Heat beat living piss out of them. What followed were panic trades.
Didn't help ,as in 2023, once again, they got serious opponnent in round 1 as they got slapped by Celtics.

And now, just 3 years later from bunch of 22 & 23 guys leading team in ECF, they are in some awkward semi retool limbo without much hope they can do anything.


Season won't be failure if we don't win, it's sucess for young team to be in game 7 of first round. If we pass, great. If we lose, oh well. But no matter what happends tomarrow, this is first step toward being serious playoff team.
Offseason will shift our rebuild into one way or another.

I think we have become good at identifying potential problems that could occur as a result of making a splashy move. But we haven't done much to suggest what we actually should do, with nuance.

This requires more granularity and goes beyond the depth of a typical realgm discussion.

Let me ask you this, how often does an "organic" approach like Warriors or Nuggets really work out and result in a championship team?

The Warriors probably wouldn't have become a dynasty if they never got KD.

The Hawks and Suns did **** up their teams but in the Hawks case, they were built around a strange player who is all offense and no defense so I question the ceiling of their group in the first place. Trae is the worst defensive player in the league year after year among those who meet certain minute thresholds. I don't think they ruined their shot a championship by selling off on John Collins or Kevin Huerter.

The Bucks won a championship because they had the best player in the league, not because they didn't blow up their core. Even though they actually kinda did because they sold off on Jabari Parker.

Do we believe in Paolo this much? Do we think he is a top 5 player or potential mvp?

I personally question it and I think he is closer to Trae's range than Giannis. His ts% is way below league average. I'm not sure he is a Dwight Howard, probably closer to Paul George/Donovan Mitchell level player top 10-20ish player.

You have to look at each move as isolated from one another and evaluate each on its merits.

This is what I mean by you need to get more granular with this rather than describing the entire thing as a "philosophy" of team building or something like that if you actually want to know what is really happening.

[jezzerinho]

Agree fully with Stallion. Others failed attempts at consolidating are not a reason not to consolidate yourself.

Sure, there may be learnings from those, but you get learnings by examining them at an individual, granular level. Not by generalising with some homecooked "consolidation BAD, homegrown GOOD" clichés.

Getting in better players is not some.tacit decision that your young star player has "arrived". If anything it should be the reverse. That in order to teach him more about basketball you need to.give him players who can show him the new stuff.

[pinoynurse]

I hate that everything is a narrative. It's like we learnt a new word recently or something. (Not aimed at the OP, just in general).

was just thinking this.

for me narrative suggests a hidden agenda which irates me. making clear, collected observations rather than impulsive decisions based on the moment is not a narrative. in fact one can make the case that the latter is moreso.

that being said. i do agree we should make some move. but not anything that will mortgage our future or go after an old superstar. I look to what houstan did as a template. sign really good role players, front load the contract but keep the years 3 or below.

[fendilim]

Its really both.

The celtics made it far without isiah thomas, i think that year’s playoff success helped their team progress. Their young players got better.

As long as we continue the path without making quick fixes, we are good, imo.

Just keep going organically and adding pieces along the way. No need to add fertilizers. Lol

[fendilim]

Its really both.

The celtics made it far without isiah thomas, i think that year’s playoff success helped their team progress. Their young players got better.

As long as we continue the path without making quick fixes, we are good, imo.

Just keep going organically and adding pieces along the way. No need to add fertilizers. Lol

[magik9113]

this narrative has been cemented into the present moment now for real

[JoshuaPotter]

Narrative is this weeks "sunk cost". Do we need to add narrative to the drinking game?

Some key things to gather.
- Suggs is upset
- Paolo is upset
- The Wagners are disappointed in themselves.

Now lets take notice of everyone else one way or another and look into shipping them off.

Regardless of the fact that I personally was OK with losing the first round management needs to take notice from here and use their resources to add something because after Franz / Paolo / Suggs / Mo / I feel that everyone else did not rise to the occasion.

[SOUL]

Narrative is this weeks "sunk cost". Do we need to add narrative to the drinking game?

Some key things to gather.
- Suggs is upset
- Paolo is upset
- The Wagners are disappointed in themselves.

Now lets take notice of everyone else one way or another and look into shipping them off.

Regardless of the fact that I personally was OK with losing the first round management needs to take notice from here and use their resources to add something because after Franz / Paolo / Suggs / Mo / I feel that everyone else did not rise to the occasion.

Mo didn't play well either. 44/22/58 or whatever he had is terrible for a big man and we know he's not much of a defender or rebounder either. He would easily be a 3rd stringer on a lot of teams, but has his uses, particularly important against specific defensive schemes. I worry about his offense without Ingles to feed him easy baskets, but Ingles is cooked.

[pepe1991]

Narrative is this weeks "sunk cost". Do we need to add narrative to the drinking game?

Some key things to gather.
- Suggs is upset
- Paolo is upset
- The Wagners are disappointed in themselves.

Now lets take notice of everyone else one way or another and look into shipping them off.

Regardless of the fact that I personally was OK with losing the first round management needs to take notice from here and use their resources to add something because after Franz / Paolo / Suggs / Mo / I feel that everyone else did not rise to the occasion.

Mo didn't play well either. 44/22/58 or whatever he had is terrible for a big man and we know he's not much of a defender or rebounder either. He would easily be a 3rd stringer on a lot of teams, but has his uses, particularly important against specific defensive schemes. I worry about his offense without Ingles to feed him easy baskets, but Ingles is cooked.

He overachived in regular season way beyond anybody's expetations. That's same guy who was getting cut by several teams in span of few years just to turn on ultra effective 11 ppg guy on winning team.

[JoshuaPotter]

Narrative is this weeks "sunk cost". Do we need to add narrative to the drinking game?

Some key things to gather.
- Suggs is upset
- Paolo is upset
- The Wagners are disappointed in themselves.

Now lets take notice of everyone else one way or another and look into shipping them off.

Regardless of the fact that I personally was OK with losing the first round management needs to take notice from here and use their resources to add something because after Franz / Paolo / Suggs / Mo / I feel that everyone else did not rise to the occasion.

Mo didn't play well either. 44/22/58 or whatever he had is terrible for a big man and we know he's not much of a defender or rebounder either. He would easily be a 3rd stringer on a lot of teams, but has his uses, particularly important against specific defensive schemes. I worry about his offense without Ingles to feed him easy baskets, but Ingles is cooked.

You confuse my point with talent.

Mo puts heart and hustle out there and cares as much about the outcome as the other 3 listed.

Edit : All other points you are 100% correct sir.

[SOUL]

You confuse my point with talent.

Mo puts heart and hustle out there and cares as much about the outcome as the other 3 listed.

Edit : All other points you are 100% correct sir.

Gotcha. He is very much needed from an energy standpoint, and just being around Franz ofc too.

He overachived in regular season way beyond anybody's expetations. That's same guy who was getting cut by several teams in span of few years just to turn on ultra effective 11 ppg guy on winning team.

This is true, although bench had a bit of symbiotic relationship going on. What is Ingles without Moe? What is Moe without Ingles? Is Moe playable without defensive anchor like Isaac around to clean defensive mistakes up? Is Isaac effective without dirty work center playing?

Not advocating to move on from Moe, just that play wise he requires specific guys to enable him a bit. It's amazing how good our bench was for a lot of this year despite so many of them being replaceable to a lot of people. I think the singular talent of it is quite weak, but their play together has been really good.

[Skybox]

You confuse my point with talent.

Mo puts heart and hustle out there and cares as much about the outcome as the other 3 listed.

Edit : All other points you are 100% correct sir.

Gotcha. He is very much needed from an energy standpoint, and just being around Franz ofc too.

He overachived in regular season way beyond anybody's expetations. That's same guy who was getting cut by several teams in span of few years just to turn on ultra effective 11 ppg guy on winning team.

This is true, although bench had a bit of symbiotic relationship going on. What is Ingles without Moe? What is Moe without Ingles? Is Moe playable without defensive anchor like Isaac around to clean defensive mistakes up? Is Isaac effective without dirty work center playing?

Not advocating to move on from Moe, just that play wise he requires specific guys to enable him a bit. It's amazing how good our bench was for a lot of this year despite so many of them being replaceable to a lot of people. I think the singular talent of it is quite weak, but their play together has been really good.

I like Mo for his energy and edge, but he's a mediocre talent. You hit the nail on the head with the idea that he can flourish with the right guys around him...he takes charges, he's got great PnR hands and finishes through contact. I've got ZERO problem with Mo Wagner as a deep bench, situational player...I'd like him as the best 9th man in the league, but we should be tightening our rotation as we improve, regardless of how we got here-it's more novelty than reality to run a 10 or 11 man rotation routinely. Mo's a good piece but I fear that his $8m salary may not make enough sense for his (future) role...I think the "brother" thing shouldn't be as uncomfortable as some make it...it's not fair to the org to consider him part of the "untouchable core"...we'll see what's next.

[purpleswordfish]

In today's NBA, success is a relative term. I can't imagine anyone thought that this team was winning a championship. I would say this year was more of a success than previous years on a number of fronts.

- Vegas had the over/under for wins at 35.5. 36 wins would have had the Magic in the play-in. 35 would have had them outside the play-in. So, the team exceeded expectations there.
- Attendance was up year-over-year. People sleep on the gate, but it's over 20% of the league's revenue. That's a stark contrast to a few years ago when some games were noticeably empty.
- Banchero, Wagner, Suggs and others all showed signs of continued development. The roster as a whole played terrific defense.
- Fans seemed to enjoy this team and I noticed a lot of people in the general Orlando area talking about the Magic more.
- I think the Magic have an excellent coach in Mosley and that's a real difference from years past.

I really wish the Magic could have pulled out a win yesterday and moved on in the playoffs. But, as a fan, I can't find anything disappointing about this season.

[JoshuaPotter]

In today's NBA, success is a relative term. I can't imagine anyone thought that this team was winning a championship. I would say this year was more of a success than previous years on a number of fronts.

- Vegas had the over/under for wins at 35.5. 36 wins would have had the Magic in the play-in. 35 would have had them outside the play-in. So, the team exceeded expectations there.
- Attendance was up year-over-year. People sleep on the gate, but it's over 20% of the league's revenue. That's a stark contrast to a few years ago when some games were noticeably empty.
- Banchero, Wagner, Suggs and others all showed signs of continued development. The roster as a whole played terrific defense.
- Fans seemed to enjoy this team and I noticed a lot of people in the general Orlando area talking about the Magic more.
- I think the Magic have an excellent coach in Mosley and that's a real difference from years past.

I really wish the Magic could have pulled out a win yesterday and moved on in the playoffs. But, as a fan, I can't find anything disappointing about this season.

+1

Those of us playing the home game are likely along for the ride. Now we get to see if management can continue to build a winning product and not just a treadmill team.

One thing I was demonstrably surprised with was our home court record. It helps me process what the next season could look like if we continue to consolidate pieces and develop players.