Moderators: ChosenSavior, SOUL, UCF, Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami
MagicMatic wrote:They need guys that can score the basketball.
drsd wrote:byeganyo wrote:Another boxscore thought about drsd - Gary plays and Mitchel and Garland combine for 14-40 or 35% at home
Gary doesnt play on friday - Mitchel and garland go for 32-53 or 61% at Orlando
Please answer this question: what was the cause of Banchero, F-Wagner, and Suggs missing 44 FG attempts? That is the reason the Magic lost this game. If you are arguing that G-Harris' defense on Cleveland guards is why he was 100% ineffective offensively, well .... not sure what to say about this. It's a two-way game.
byeganyo wrote:How did you manage to calculate that he was "100% ineffective" offensively? He scored the same amount of points as Franz... on 12 shots less. 6 pts plus good defense from your 5th option is ok, and if we wanted more pts from him, maybe we should have given him the ball a bit more...
Orlando lost the game for reasons already beaten to death in this thread - not enough ball movement and a player **** his panths.
SHAQ32 wrote:Offense went to crap once Magic were in the penalty, 5-something into 2nd quarter. The refs called the game different in the 2nd and 3rd compared to the 1st and 4th. Personal fouls: Cavs 23, Magic 32.
drsd wrote:Standing in the corner in case the ball is (accidentally) passed to you is not SG offense. A modern NBA SG should be running cuts and setting screens on PnRs. Harris does neither of those things. The 4 FGAs is a reflection that he did 0% on offense.
I have been banging on about this all season. And Orlando got eliminated from the playoffs via the very real, biggest wart on this team. Lack of ball movement because the SG is not involved at all on offense.
Now here is my real concern: is this actually the fault of Coach Mosley? If Harris would be replaced by a new SG that would also just be told to hide in the corner, well, then nothing improves.
Knightro wrote:Until the Magic either A. bring in a real point guard capable of initiating pick and rolls and making higher end passing reads out of those pick and rolls or B. Paolo and Franz become more skilled at drive and kick to shooters instead of just drive and look to score (or ideally a combination of A & B), you'll see more of the same.
Switching Gary Harris for Max Strus this season wouldn't have changed literally anything. Neither would Gary Trent. Neither would Kevin Huerter. If any of those guys were used like Gary was used and got the ball the same amount of times (aka not very many times), their numbers would look terrible too.
Knightro wrote:You have an issue with Mosley, Paolo and Franz a lot more than you have an issue with Harris and you don't even realize it.
I think the broader point with Harris is that he's not a movement shooter. He's not an offball cutter. He lacks the capacity to get involved in any dribble handoffs. He's literally only the guy you kick it out to when he's wide open after the offense has gone through a few actions. He's about as limited a 3&D option as you'll find on the market.Knightro wrote:drsd wrote:Standing in the corner in case the ball is (accidentally) passed to you is not SG offense. A modern NBA SG should be running cuts and setting screens on PnRs. Harris does neither of those things. The 4 FGAs is a reflection that he did 0% on offense.
I have been banging on about this all season. And Orlando got eliminated from the playoffs via the very real, biggest wart on this team. Lack of ball movement because the SG is not involved at all on offense.
Now here is my real concern: is this actually the fault of Coach Mosley? If Harris would be replaced by a new SG that would also just be told to hide in the corner, well, then nothing improves.
Shooting guards just do not do the stuff you're describing on their own. That isn't how it works. All that stuff is part of the action within the design of the offensive set.
You have an issue with Mosley, Paolo and Franz a lot more than you have an issue with Harris and you don't even realize it.
Yeah he was shattered. That must be rough.shadrock wrote:Man that postgame presser for Franz was a hard watch. Guys voice cracked a few times, hes clearly taking this right on the chin. Hope the guys get around him, hes a huge part of the future.
eyriq wrote:I think the broader point with Harris is that he's not a movement shooter. He's not an offball cutter. He lacks the capacity to get involved in any dribble handoffs. He's literally only the guy you kick it out to when he's wide open after the offense has gone through a few actions. He's about as limited a 3&D option as you'll find on the market.Knightro wrote:drsd wrote:Standing in the corner in case the ball is (accidentally) passed to you is not SG offense. A modern NBA SG should be running cuts and setting screens on PnRs. Harris does neither of those things. The 4 FGAs is a reflection that he did 0% on offense.
I have been banging on about this all season. And Orlando got eliminated from the playoffs via the very real, biggest wart on this team. Lack of ball movement because the SG is not involved at all on offense.
Now here is my real concern: is this actually the fault of Coach Mosley? If Harris would be replaced by a new SG that would also just be told to hide in the corner, well, then nothing improves.
Shooting guards just do not do the stuff you're describing on their own. That isn't how it works. All that stuff is part of the action within the design of the offensive set.
You have an issue with Mosley, Paolo and Franz a lot more than you have an issue with Harris and you don't even realize it.
eyriq wrote:Yeah he was shattered. That must be rough.shadrock wrote:Man that postgame presser for Franz was a hard watch. Guys voice cracked a few times, hes clearly taking this right on the chin. Hope the guys get around him, hes a huge part of the future.
zaymon wrote:Focusing on improving SG instead of PG is literally taking Suns road. Anyone likes their offense ?
Franz had bad scoring game and he knows it but there was no on to get him easy baskets. Yes he had open 3s but we know he is struggling from deep and thats on him.
I agree his mental make-up is team player and ball mover and we could see it in pressure situation. He needs more 1on1 Juice but having 6 assists and zero turnovers also shows his skills and attitude.
Paolo is great and I love him but when he manages offense is mostly do or die. Not many easy baskets for himself or others. He could still be 1st scoring option but not a game manager just like Conley and Edwards dynamic.
After such a game guys will come with anger next season. A lot of fuel.
FFBlitzace wrote:Anyone questioning Franz's ability to be a 3rd option shouldn't be taken seriously. You don't score (essentially) 20ppg while being one of the only two players the opponent has to bother defending, and only be a 4th option. Get out of here with that crap.
fendilim wrote:Lol at the hate Isaac is getting haha
Everyone was praising his defense when the cavs were shooting only 29% against him as the defender.
Major difference with Isaac is from game 5-7, he was being used as a point of attack defender against Donovan Mitchell. Which led to him getting lower blocks and steals. Isaac feasted on help side defense all season long.
He actually made opponents miss more shots this playoffs
?s=46&t=iLAy6FEi9caa6E4C9teZYQ
He also changed a lot of shots in the paint during games 1-4, Mitchell and Garland had several drop passes when they saw Isaac as a help defender coming in.
The problem really is his offense which was a no show tonight. He shot the ball well specially in games 3 and 4. Even had back to back 3 during the 3rd run.
He also changed a lot of shots in the paint during games 1-4, Mitchell and Garland had several drop passes when they saw Isaac as a help defender coming in.
pepe1991 wrote:fendilim wrote:Lol at the hate Isaac is getting haha
Everyone was praising his defense when the cavs were shooting only 29% against him as the defender.
Major difference with Isaac is from game 5-7, he was being used as a point of attack defender against Donovan Mitchell. Which led to him getting lower blocks and steals. Isaac feasted on help side defense all season long.
He actually made opponents miss more shots this playoffs
?s=46&t=iLAy6FEi9caa6E4C9teZYQ
He also changed a lot of shots in the paint during games 1-4, Mitchell and Garland had several drop passes when they saw Isaac as a help defender coming in.
The problem really is his offense which was a no show tonight. He shot the ball well specially in games 3 and 4. Even had back to back 3 during the 3rd run.
Looking at some of advanced stats for this series is very missleading.
Points differential:
game 1- 14 points
game 2- 10 points
game 3- 38 points
game 4- 23 points
game 4- 1 point
game 5-7 points
game 7- 12 points
In two out of Magic 3 wins, Magic blew Cavs out of a game. By doing so, you had apsolute "curruption" of data to look at.
For example , net rating, Magic have all players in positive net rating, and best player by net rating is non other than Fultz.
On other side of a spectrum, Cavs have one ( one!) player with positive rating, Okoro, with minimal +0,3, yet Cavs won a series.
By eye test and margins, i think Magic even outscored Cavs combined in 7 games. But again, mostly because two lobsided wins.
Isaac is great defender and nobody argued that, i said that to me he is biggest dissapointment because neither his defense was that eye popping nor his offense ( nor defense ) looked any better than it looked during regular season. That's why my conclusion was- he plays regular season games like it's playoffs and in playoffs, teams kick in another gear, and Isaac does not have one. He is same player in, as i've said, random mid season game vs tanker as he is in playoffs.
You can go back and rewatch Raptors series and it was same problem. It's not like his individual defense was bad ,it's just fact that good teams handle him in playoffs and minimize his defensive impact, and on other side you get next to nothing on offense from him.
On paper, Cavs were great matchup for him, 2 bigs who hate to shoot, Mobley who has bad habbit of being passive on offense, Allen who got hurt mid series after abusing us, washed up Morris, washed up Tristan Thompson, no other big in sight on Cavs roster, not a single person to match his height but Mobley. It was series where Isaac should have been dominant. Instad we got 6 points 5 rebounds in 20 min. Even his playing time was massive dissapointment. You pay that guy $17M a year and you treat him better than Spurs treated 37 years old Duncan with all the rest, game skipping, not traveling , not playing back to backs etc, and that's all you can get?
Dissapointing doesn't mean player sucked, it means he did not play up to expetations ( mine expetations).
It's fine to disagree, but throwing in random dFGA does nothing.He also changed a lot of shots in the paint during games 1-4, Mitchell and Garland had several drop passes when they saw Isaac as a help defender coming in.
They also adjusted in game one already and they were running at paint, and dumbing passes to Allen whenever Isaac would go to help. That's execlly how Allen got to his 60% FG on 16 ppg in two games (along with abusing us at rebounding department).
Those are game 1 situations where execlly that happend. Dribble penetetration, ball dumping after Isaac commits to help, Allen getting uncontested dunks.
We had lucky break that Allen got hurt, i don't agree with Knightro's suggestion it helped Cavs ( Due spacing) , Allen is massive treat to score off lobs and is great shotblocker. Without him Mobley had to play full time C and basically had no backup. Not having Allen forced Cavs into defending Paolo with smaller players because they no longer could have Mobley on him often. They were so desparate that they dusted off Marcus Morris after having him play only 12 games ( & picking him off from 10 days contract in March ).
