WIP: Rumblings about a trade with Iguodala?

[UptownPhilly]

Oh. Sorry.

It depends on what you need, if you're going with the two.

Lewis may get the nod, due to the mismatches he can cause, and his ability to knock down the three.
Iguodala has a more rounded game and less years.

Lewis is a good fit on our squad. We have very solid defenders and rebounders in our front court. His ability to knock down the three would be very good, and his lack of defense would be masked.

[tk76]

jmon- I stand corrected. It looks like Thad and Smith have cap holds the summer of '11. Young, Smith and Speights only count for 7M for summer '10. They wouldn't have max money, but still 10-15M to throw at a good FA if they don't add any other contracts past '10 in the next 2 years.

[Loose Cannon]

Oh. Sorry.

It depends on what you need, if you're going with the two.

Lewis may get the nod, due to the mismatches he can cause, and his ability to knock down the three.
Iguodala has a more rounded game and less years.

Lewis is a good fit on our squad. We have very solid defenders and rebounders in our front court. His ability to knock down the three would be very good, and his lack of defense would be masked.

The thing I don't like about Rashard is his habit of camping around behiind the arc. I realize that he nails the treys at a respectable percentage, but he doesn't utilize his talent to its maximum capability.

By the way, did you pick up Untitled?

[UptownPhilly]

Album of the Year

[ChuckS]

I try not to post too often, because I realize that these boards are supposed to be for fun and discussion. And I know most like to talk about possible trades and who is better. Often when I add a thought I feel like such a killjoy. I also know there is nothing new that can be added to the interminable "Andre relatively sucks" threads but, to my dismay, I always let them suck me in. It is important, however, that a few realize that they are not alone in worrying about the possibility of not signing Iguodala.

I've always believed we sucked for a decade because we had to pay tens of millions to guys like Geiger and TMac (and others) who physically could not play, and Robinson and Webber who would not. In the relative scheme of things how much could possibly paying a good contributor one or two mil too much (if that is indeed the case) really hurt when we are talking fifty eight to seventy million dollars? I acknowledge that another might think that catastrophic and precedent to our permanent demise...but in reality it is chickenfeed.

It is my belief that there is someone in the league better than any player on our team...even Brand who will make much more than AI. I do not always agree but, even if correct, what difference does it make if Rashard, or Kevin, or anyone else might be better than Andre. (I personally believe we place too much emphasis on three point shooting and not enough on defense, compatibility, and all around game...but that is beside the point.) The fact is that we do not have these other players, likely cannot get them or anyone else better, and more importantly have no perimeter player on our team that is even close to being as good or valuable. (I exclude Miller who is a short-timer.)

It must be very entertaining to replace everyone on our team (after they have played a couple of years and bore us) with some great hope from the draft or another team. I would hope that Stefanski, however, places more import on continuity and stability in his championship building in a real world environment. Certainly performance is important. But, I think, anyone who doesn't believe Andre has been and will be an exceptional player is, at best, being impractically critical.

Trading a very good player for someone some fan thinks is even better sounds good but is often, if we are lucky, a lateral move. I like Ed's philosophy of trying to build a great team, by supplementing, instead of frivolously replacing, core players.

[tk76]

I agree. I don't want to trade away both AI's. We already lost one.

[51X3RF4N]

I try not to post too often, because I realize that these boards are supposed to be for fun and discussion. And I know most like to talk about possible trades and who is better. Often when I add a thought I feel like such a killjoy. I also know there is nothing new that can be added to the interminable "Andre relatively sucks" threads but, to my dismay, I always let them suck me in. It is important, however, that a few realize that they are not alone in worrying about the possibility of not signing Iguodala.

I've always believed we sucked for a decade because we had to pay tens of millions to guys like Geiger and TMac (and others) who physically could not play, and Robinson and Webber who would not. In the relative scheme of things how much could possibly paying a good contributor one or two mil too much (if that is indeed the case) really hurt when we are talking fifty eight to seventy million dollars? I acknowledge that another might think that catastrophic and precedent to our permanent demise...but in reality it is chickenfeed.

It is my belief that there is someone in the league better than any player on our team...even Brand who will make much more than AI. I do not always agree but, even if correct, what difference does it make if Rashard, or Kevin, or anyone else might be better than Andre. (I personally believe we place too much emphasis on three point shooting and not enough on defense, compatibility, and all around game...but that is beside the point.) The fact is that we do not have these other players, likely cannot get them or anyone else better, and more importantly have no perimeter player on our team that is even close to being as good or valuable. (I exclude Miller who is a short-timer.)

It must be very entertaining to replace everyone on our team (after they have played a couple of years and bore us) with some great hope from the draft or another team. I would hope that Stefanski, however, places more import on continuity and stability in his championship building in a real world environment. Certainly performance is important. But, I think, anyone who doesn't believe Andre has been and will be an exceptional player is, at best, being impractically critical.

Trading a very good player for someone some fan thinks is even better sounds good but is often, if we are lucky, a lateral move. I like Ed's philosophy of trying to build a great team, by supplementing, instead of frivolously replacing, core players.

I agree with everything you said except the highlighted part. TMac physically can play, and has played most of last season.

[Sixersfan87]

I try not to post too often, because I realize that these boards are supposed to be for fun and discussion. And I know most like to talk about possible trades and who is better. Often when I add a thought I feel like such a killjoy. I also know there is nothing new that can be added to the interminable "Andre relatively sucks" threads but, to my dismay, I always let them suck me in. It is important, however, that a few realize that they are not alone in worrying about the possibility of not signing Iguodala.

I've always believed we sucked for a decade because we had to pay tens of millions to guys like Geiger and TMac (and others) who physically could not play, and Robinson and Webber who would not. In the relative scheme of things how much could possibly paying a good contributor one or two mil too much (if that is indeed the case) really hurt when we are talking fifty eight to seventy million dollars? I acknowledge that another might think that catastrophic and precedent to our permanent demise...but in reality it is chickenfeed.

It is my belief that there is someone in the league better than any player on our team...even Brand who will make much more than AI. I do not always agree but, even if correct, what difference does it make if Rashard, or Kevin, or anyone else might be better than Andre. (I personally believe we place too much emphasis on three point shooting and not enough on defense, compatibility, and all around game...but that is beside the point.) The fact is that we do not have these other players, likely cannot get them or anyone else better, and more importantly have no perimeter player on our team that is even close to being as good or valuable. (I exclude Miller who is a short-timer.)

It must be very entertaining to replace everyone on our team (after they have played a couple of years and bore us) with some great hope from the draft or another team. I would hope that Stefanski, however, places more import on continuity and stability in his championship building in a real world environment. Certainly performance is important. But, I think, anyone who doesn't believe Andre has been and will be an exceptional player is, at best, being impractically critical.

Trading a very good player for someone some fan thinks is even better sounds good but is often, if we are lucky, a lateral move. I like Ed's philosophy of trying to build a great team, by supplementing, instead of frivolously replacing, core players.

I agree with everything you said except the highlighted part. TMac physically can play, and has played most of last season.

Pretty sure he meant Todd McCullough, The Great White Dope

[ChuckS]

[quote] "Pretty sure he meant Todd McCullough, The Great White Dope"

Yup. Thanks. My bad! I meant to write ToddMac because we had been discussing the real TMac.

[darius08]

In the relative scheme of things how much could possibly paying a good contributor one or two mil too much (if that is indeed the case) really hurt when we are talking fifty eight to seventy million dollars? I acknowledge that another might think that catastrophic and precedent to our permanent demise...but in reality it is chickenfeed.

Overpaying is what gets you stuck with untradeable parts. If BK had bargained at all wtih Dalembert and given him 2-3 mill/year less, he'd be a tremendous trade asset. As it is, he's at best a push and potentially even a minus. Ditto for Green, Evans, etc.

And one always has to keep trade value in mind. It's what allows us to shuffle things around if (as is often the case) the team doesn't perform according to your expectations.

[ChuckS]

[quote] "Overpaying is what gets you stuck with untradeable parts. If BK had bargained at all wtih Dalembert and given him 2-3 mill/year less, he'd be a tremendous trade asset. As it is, he's at best a push and potentially even a minus. Ditto for Green, Evans, etc."

This is certainly a valid and often espoused point, but I think in most cases greatly exaggerated.

I think that most GM's are most often wise to give longer contracts to those they think can contribute, to strive for team continuity, comfortability, and stability. Fans, on the other hand, are drawn to the latest flavor of the month, and are much more interested in constant trades.

It has been my lonely belief that none of those you mentioned are seriously, if at all, overpaid. It can be argued that Sam was earlier, but unfortunately players demand, and GM's must consider improvement during the years of the contract. Willie Green makes relatively little, and has more than earned his pay, both as a backup and starter by necessity. I understand that guards are a dime a dozen, but that does not mean a team should not lock up one it likes, at a relatively modest premium. Reggie Evans is vastly underrated because of his poor shooting, and the fact that most fans do not appreciate, or often recognize, good defense. His rebounding, with the flexible defensive ability, I think, makes him worth his pay to any good team.

Please understand that growing up during the careers of Robertson, Pettit, Havlicek, Wilt, etc, often has me wondering if everyone today is overpaid. But I believe that fans should more worry about being able to dramatically and easily change a team that has a twenty million dollar player like Ivy, Marbury, or Arenas, for example. Those are the players who gobble up cap space and most limit flexibility. Instead they worry about the least of our problems who, contrary to public opinion, can be relatively easier moved, even as fillers...and if not...hurt infinitely less.

I know Billy King has received a bad rap, but his/our biggest problems have resulted from larger contracts, unmovable after injury. The Todd Mac thing was particularly freaky and not predictable. Blue was a similar case. I still wonder about Geiger. We traded Snow, and Thomas, and even Ratliff, and then Mutombo.

Certainly teams make mistakes. But that should be expected in a free market, and in a time when almost everything is predicated on potential, and few have had to demonstrate performance before they are considered stars. And of course, like in every other occupation, there are good, mediocre, and bad GMs.

In summary, although I do not disagree with your premise, I do question whether it is often interpreted correctly. In this instant case, I am not convinced that Andre, sometime during his next contract, will not be worth the relatively little more we now consider overpaying. I also sympathize with good GMs who have to consider hurt feelings in this age of youth entitlement. If you think that is fiscally stupid OK, but just be thankful that that is why we have Brand.

[greentothe]

I´m new here so... first of all greetings to all of you.

I´m a Sixers fan from Spain and I have been readins this forum for two years without writing. So sorry if my English isn´t very good

I have been reading many about Iguodala and I like the guy but I think his ego could hurt the team a lot... I didn´t read all the pages of the topic but I would like to do a S&T if he doesn´t want to continue at a reasonable prize...

my idea... do the Trade with Portland, has a lot to offer (Youth & Cap space) and would like Iguodala to his puzzle

Iguodala (S&T) + Green + Evans + 2nd x Rudy + Frye + Outlaw + Lafrentz + 2 1sts + Rights of Koponen

Phil
Miller | Koponen
Williams | Rudy | Gordon
Young | Outlaw
Brand | Frye | Speights
Dalembert | Smith | Lafrentz

Portland
Bayless | Blake
Roy | Green
Iguodala | Webster | Batum
Aldridge | Evans | Diogu
Oden | Przbilla

I know it´s a risk to do this but we´d have the some or more youth with a year to develop (Rudy is ready to contribute right know, you´ll see in the olympics) cap space to resign Miller and to sign a would free agent in the future. Next season would be worst than expected (or no) but the future could be a lot better (or not).

I think this idea won´t like you a lot because Iguodala has very high level but the guys we´d get aren´t rubbish so don´t be very cruel with my idea and my English.

Saudos, Greentothe

[tk76]

Tu engles no es una problema, pero no acordo con tu. As you see my Spanish is horrible- so I will save your eyes from trying to read it.

Welcome to the board. i agree Iguodala's ego may lead him to be moved, but I think the team needs top get more established talent in return. Going solely for picks and prospects is too risky. On the flip side, going with old talent is a bad idea also. Makes for a difficult situation if they can't reach a compromise in negotiations.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I think Iguodala needs to realize who he is, and it's partly a fault of management for thinking differently about Iguodala.

He is not a "20/5/5" player, that's just what happens when you allow Iguodala to dominate the basketball. He's a 15 PPG Swingman. Is that valuable? Yes he is. Is he 11.5 million dollar valuable?

Nope. Far from it.

[Sixerscan]

Welcome to the board. i agree Iguodala's ego may lead him to be moved

Please not you too.

It's not ego or being a primadonna to try and get the best contract possible. Everyone talked about what a high character guy Aaron Rowand was, and he went for the money with a horrible team when he got the chance.

This is called negotiation. None of the other restricted guys have signed yet so there's no real market that's been set. Therefore, he's going to ask for the moon until someone else signs for something reasonable or we get too close to training camp and it actually becomes a problem.

If Deng/Okafor/Smith had all signed reasonable contracts already I would agree with you guys. Give him some time.

[tk76]

Welcome to the board. i agree Iguodala's ego may lead him to be moved

Please not you too.

I've not been swayed by the ranting of He Who Will Not Be Named (HWWNBN), I just think there is a possible serious impass brewing. Not just with Iguodala, but all of the big name RFA's. They can't all go to Greece...

I worry that the Side Show Bob holdout flap last year is just the first of many such distractions, as the cap forces the market down lower than what players feel they will play for. The CBA gives all the power to management, but the agents and players at slow to admit this. If negations get ugly- and id SF1976 is correct about Iguodala wanting near max numbers they will get ugly- then this could end up being a lose-lose situation.

I can't say what players are "worth" because the NBA is an entertainment field. But if the two parties are miles appart it is unlikely that we are looking at a happy ending.

[jmon]

Welcome to the board. i agree Iguodala's ego may lead him to be moved

Please not you too.

It's not ego or being a primadonna to try and get the best contract possible. Everyone talked about what a high character guy Aaron Rowand was, and he went for the money with a horrible team when he got the chance.

This is called negotiation. None of the other restricted guys have signed yet so there's no real market that's been set. Therefore, he's going to ask for the moon until someone else signs for something reasonable or we get too close to training camp and it actually becomes a problem.

If Deng/Okafor/Smith had all signed reasonable contracts already I would agree with you guys. Give him some time.

Agreed. It is a long summer. It is hard to wait after all this action early though... you know?

Iguodala does seemingly have a weird part to him. He whines and whines about calls sometimes and it starts to make him force plays. Tim Duncan whines and whines as well, so maybe it doesn't mean too much, but it is definitely something I have noted in the past.

[freshie2]

Iguodala does seemingly have a weird part to him. He whines and whines about calls sometimes and it starts to make him force plays. Tim Duncan whines and whines as well, so maybe it doesn't mean too much, but it is definitely something I have noted in the past.

The forcing of plays may have been due to the lack of other options on offense last season. He was forced into being the #1 scorer and face of the franchise. He put up very respectable numbers to say the least, but now he has a proven #1 inside scorer, and a year more developed Thad Young...maybe his behavior will be more acceptable to others this season.