Sixers sign Kareem Rush per Eskin

corwin · Post #41 » by **corwin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:33 am

If this is true, it is an excellent signing. As someone else mentioned, Rush can play spot minutes at the 2 or 3 so this gives Ed more options to fill out the roster. He's a good shooter. I saw that Cleveland is not re-signing Dwayne Jones (St. Joe's) who is now 25. He's 6'11" and a decent defender & shot blocker. Booth better hope that he gets released soon.

STChaser · Post #42 » by **STChaser** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:17 pm

Kareem Rush is 6'6...so he can play spot minutes at SF

I know Rush is listed at 6'6 and I believe that to be true. However, is it me or does he appear to have a very little frame? He seems to have a similar build to Carney for that matter, although not as long.

Regardless, picking up Rush was a great move. Count me among the crowd who now things WG must go. It would probably be worth trying to package Green and Evans for a legitimate backup 5. DeAndre Jordan would still be nice coming off the bench behind Sam but my guess is that's a long shot at this point.

STChaser

fdefore · Post #43 » by **fdefore** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:25 pm

I would also echo what CableKC and laydo have said about Rush:

A creator he is not but I can't imagine that is why he was signed so a non-issue.

Streaky but solid shooter

Better defender than advertised - this was the biggest surprise watching him last season is watching him defend. At times, he was the Pacers best perimeter defender (which speaks more to the Pacers piss-poor defense than Kareem's skill.) But, unlike previous times I'd seen Kareem, he actually was working on the defensive end which is something you like to see out of backup snipers. He isn't world class but he also knows minutes will come by being useful on both ends of the court so he'll work when he's out there.

A lot of people jump on Bernie Bickerstaff kicking Kareem off the Bobcats near the end of the season a couple years ago and talk about Kareem being a malcontent. I never saw any sign of it and tend to think that issue, whatever it was, was more personal in nature than a real problem with Kareem's attitude.

Overall if you want him to be a starter (which I can't imagine you do) he'll have a few games where he shows up and can score 15-20 then he'll have a few more where you don't even remember he was on the floor. He's much better suited for a backup role. As to whether he'll get minutes over Willie, my guess is it'll be situational. He seems like a good guy.

Here is a brief "GET TO KNOW" feature the Pacers did last season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr8aw734DBk

fdefore · Post #44 » by **fdefore** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:33 pm

STChaser wrote:I know Rush is listed at 6'6 and I believe that to be true. However, is it me or does he appear to have a very little frame? He seems to have a similar build to Carney for that matter, although not as long.

Yes, you'd be playing small ball but you did a lot of that anyway last season, no?

STChaser wrote:Regardless, picking up Rush was a great move. Count me among the crowd who now things WG must go. It would probably be worth trying to package Green and Evans for a legitimate backup 5. DeAndre Jordan would still be nice coming off the bench behind Sam but my guess is that's a long shot at this point.

STChaser

Clippers wouldn't do that because they need minutes for Eric Gordon. Besides that'd just be weird for Kaman and Evans to have to share shower space.

Not that you'd be interested in dealing with the Nets, but they've got a ton of seven footers laying arond. The Magic could be interested in that package. I'm just not sure what big you could get in return.

The Pacers would be interested if you wanted Jamaal Tinsley or Troy Murphy and filler :wink:

geiger · Post #45 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:37 pm

Is there any official post about his signing anywhere? All I've seen is this message board, going off what Eskin said. Has this happened? What are the terms? Obviously its for the minimum, but how many years, who has the opt out, etc.?

STChaser · Post #46 » by **STChaser** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:38 pm

If this is true about the Rush signing, how would people feel about the following;

Evans and/or WG traded to the Bucks for Charlie Villanueva and filler

Why?

Villanueva, at 6'11, can play both the 3 and serve as an insurance policy at the 4 and 5. He's also got the range to spread the floor for us on offense. He could come off the bench behind Thaddeus but also take Evans spot behind Speights. New lineup:

PG: Miller, Lou
SG: Iguodala, Rush, Ivey
SF: Thaddeus, Villanueva
PF: Brand, Speights, Villanueva
C: Sam, Smith, Villanueva

STChaser

geiger · Post #47 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:46 pm

Why in the world would the Bucks do that? They get an inferior players with long contracts at way above market value for a younger, better player with an expiring contract? They would be better off letting him walk for nothing.

STChaser · Post #48 » by **STChaser** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:52 pm

Well you bring up a decent point; exactly what kind of value does Evans have within the league? I would think that a high energy guy who pulls down rebounds at his rate would be worth something, right?

STChaser

Post #49 » by **sixers hoops** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:14 pm

geiger wrote:Is there any official post about his signing anywhere? All I've seen is this message board, going off what Eskin said. Has this happened? What are the terms? Obviously its for the minimum, but how many years, who has the opt out, etc.?

It hasn't been announced as official. Eskin just said they are about to sign him, which a minimum offer could fall apart in a second or Eskin could be wrong, so I wouldn't count on it until he officially signs.

The terms? unless there is a sign and trade, we only have the minimum. If he agreed to more than one year at the minimum, he must have the worst agent in the world.

It could have a player option, but if he has a good season he obviously won't pick it up. And if he had a bad season, then it is only a minimum contract which is barely a commitment.

geiger · Post #50 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:57 pm

Until I see the official signing, I'll treat it as nothing more than a rumor. Eskin has been wrong plenty of times before, and while he likes to pretend that he broke the news on Brand, he didn't talk about it until it was all over ESPN as a possibility. Once it was out there, he merely confirmed what was reported in the national media from the team, to which he has access as a local reporter. He then took credit for "breaking" it - which in his world means being the first WIP jerk-off to actually mention it on the radio.

Rush is no big deal. It's not a huge story by any means. Simply being in town and meeting with the Sixers would indicate he's about to sign. That being said, things still fall apart at the last minute. See Mo Evans to Golden State - he just signed with the Hawks after it was reported he had a deal with Golden State and he was even in town to attend the press conference. So until it's done, I'm not going to just take Eskin's word for it.

kanga · Post #51 » by **kanga** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:08 pm

I believe sixerfan1976 reported it around midnight as well, didn't he?

Post #52 » by **sixers hoops** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:14 pm

geiger wrote:while he likes to pretend that he broke the news on Brand, he didn't talk about it until it was all over ESPN as a possibility. Once it was out there, he merely confirmed what was reported in the national media from the team, to which he has access as a local reporter. He then took credit for "breaking" it - which in his world means being the first WIP jerk-off to actually mention it on the radio.

This is not accurate. He did report it well before ESPN. I just happened to be listening that evening because it was close to the signing period and he reported it, I posted it on another forum prior to ESPN evening mentioning it. I would have made a thread here at realgm, but I didn't really believe and just mentioned it on another forum during a conversation.

I though we realistically had no shot at Brand and didn't take it very seriously, but he was the first to mention it when it was assumed by all that a Josh Smith offer was imminent.

Nonetheless, I am not assuming that Rush is already part of the team, but there is nothing to discuss anyway so we may as well give opinions IF it is true.

Post #53 » by **tk76** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:14 pm

STChaser wrote:Well you bring up a decent point; exactly what kind of value does Evans have within the league? I would think that a high energy guy who pulls down rebounds at his rate would be worth something, right?

STChaser

No, not worth anything because he is signed to a long contract. A player has negative trade value when their contract is longer and more pricey than what skills they bring to the table.

For example- Finley was very valuable as a min contract guy last year- in fact he might have been worth 4X what he signed for.

Finley's actual salary last year was 18M- paid by the Mavs. He had negative value at that contract, and thats why the Mavs let him walk for nothing just so that he no longer counted towards the tax- even though he still had to be paid the 18M and counted against the cap.

Evans would have value on a 1 year deal- but with 3 more seasons starting at nearly 5M he has negative trade value. the Sixers likely will have to give away a #1 or more to move him.

STChaser · Post #54 » by **STChaser** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:25 pm

Thanks for the breakdown tk76. Again, I like Evans on our roster, but I'm worried he's going to stunt Speights development.

STChaser

KrazySixersD · Post #55 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:21 pm

I would think if we acquired Villenueva he would have a much bigger role than the 3rd big off the bench. He is a very solid player that as you said can even stretch a defense.

Post #56 » by **dbodner** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:23 pm

Well you bring up a decent point; exactly what kind of value does Evans have within the league? I would think that a high energy guy who pulls down rebounds at his rate would be worth something, right?

I would guess his trade value is something along the lines of Steven Hunter. Evans' game hasn't changed in the time he's been here to warrant an increase. There may be a slight increase since his contract now has less years remaining, but he's not in high demand.

Try to keep the trade proposals in their proper place.

corwin · Post #57 » by **corwin** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:25 pm

tk76 wrote:
No, not worth anything because he is signed to a long contract. A player has negative trade value when their contract is longer and more pricey than what skills they bring to the table.

Hard to argue with this logic. However, there will be some coach/GM that will get sick of looking at their soft, sorry-assed, no-heart team that won't play defense by mid-season. BTW, my first guess for a candidate would be Larry Brown but I don't think Skiles in Milwaukee will be too far behind. At that point Evans might look a lot better to that coach than Morrison, May Charlie V, or any other number of soft players with less time on their contracts.

Post #58 » by **tk76** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:49 pm

corwin wrote:
tk76 wrote:
However, there will be some coach/GM that will get sick of looking at their soft, sorry-assed, no-heart team that won't play defense by mid-season. BTW, my first guess for a candidate would be Larry Brown but I don't think Skiles in Milwaukee will be too far behind. At that point Evans might look a lot better to that coach than Morrison, May Charlie V, or any other number of soft players with less time on their contracts.

Agreed, I'm sure someone would be willing to trade back another player with a percieved bad contract (like maybe Matt Carrol?) If that player fills a need it probably is worth doing (not for Caroll.)

Just don't expect a prospect or a guy with a shorter deal in exchange for Evans, but he is not untradable- just not worth anything :-?

ckchen · Post #59 » by **ckchen** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:25 pm

tk76 wrote:
corwin wrote:
tk76 wrote:
However, there will be some coach/GM that will get sick of looking at their soft, sorry-assed, no-heart team that won't play defense by mid-season. BTW, my first guess for a candidate would be Larry Brown but I don't think Skiles in Milwaukee will be too far behind. At that point Evans might look a lot better to that coach than Morrison, May Charlie V, or any other number of soft players with less time on their contracts.

Agreed, I'm sure someone would be willing to trade back another player with a percieved bad contract (like maybe Matt Carrol?) If that player fills a need it probably is worth doing (not for Caroll.)

Just don't expect a prospect or a guy with a shorter deal in exchange for Evans, but he is not untradable- just not worth anything

Exactly, if Evans had some kind of return value - they would've dealt him instead of Carney prior to the Brand deal. His contract basically kills his trade value for any team looking to have cap space in 2010 - which is basically like...every team in the league. I'm not saying Evans himself doesn't have value as a player, which I think he clearly does, but he doesn't have much value as a tradeable asset.

As for Rush, the terms he most likely got from us us probably a two year deal with a player option for the 2nd year. That seems to be the standard. That way, if he thinks he can do better than the min. next year, he can opt-out, but if he totally stinks it up or gets injured this season, he has the security of knowing that he can at least guarantee himself a 1 yr. minimum salary and be on a NBA roster.

geiger · Post #60 » by **geiger** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:32 pm

I still don't see anything about Rush signing here.

As for Evans and Green - their contracts lead them to have negative trade values. Not only will we find a hard time getting anything in return for them, we might have to give something else up just to get someone to take one of those players. I think Evans as a PF, has more value than Green, but he has a worse contract as well. Who wants to pay $5 million a year for 3 years to such a limited role player? If he was a center, sure - as an undersized PF who can't score - not so much. That's why I think Orlando is one of the few teams that might have interest so long as we kick in $3 million in the trade to cover part of Evans's 3rd year contract.