Tom Moore 2.0

83SixersRocked · Post #1621 » by **83SixersRocked** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:13 am

Lou>>Bibby

This just isn't true.

Post #1622 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:03 am

I feel like I'm telling someone Santa Claus isn't real.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1623 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:20 am

We're not talking about in-prime Mike Bibby. We're talking about a decent PG who sometimes fails to show up for games at a time.

Court_visioN · Post #1624 » by **Court_visioN** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:04 am

shouldn't there be another thread for this debate? This has nothing to do with what tmoore has been telling us... the latest from tom is ed pinckney is the sixers' color analyst. granted, it's not news we can really discuss, but we're going from off-topic to just plain ridiculous.

but since creating new threads really isn't my responsibility, i'll chime in with my two cents.

The Hawks are what you thought they were - they're a fastbreaking team that relies on a solid perimeter offense. Fun to watch, good against the weaker teams in the league, but ultimately not going to win anything.

The Sixers are, more than anything, a major question mark right now. They could be a horrible team, or they can contend for home court in the playoffs. It all depends on the growth of the young guys, the integration of Brand and the princeton offense, and whether or not the team can develop defensively despite a focus on an offensive system.

Debating which team is better is really pointless - neither team will be winning a championship anytime soon.

corwin · Post #1625 » by **corwin** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:11 am

This is an interesting debate. I think of it somewhat different in that I'm of the belief that there are 3 tiers of teams in the East & that there isn't much difference between the teams in each tier. IMO the best teams fall in tier 1 & are Boston, Orlando, & Cleveland. In tier 2 lie most of the others & here I would include Philly, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, possibly Toronto, Charlotte, & Washington. Then there are the teams in trouble & here I would include NJ, NY, Milwaukee, Detroit & Indiana. Injuries/trades will make all of this subject to change but this is where I see the teams right now.

Don · Post #1626 » by **Don** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:39 am

Sixerscan wrote:I feel like I'm telling someone Santa Claus isn't real.

That's it. That's why I was saying- the young boy's in fantasy land. Perhaps there should be some kind of fantasy thread for "Sixers are way better than Cleveland and Atlanta" LOL. Or maybe "Brand is better than Lebron".lol. Writing Brand>>>>>>>>>JSmith or Lou>>>>>>>>>>>Bibby makes it a fact??? I wish that's all it took. Fact is, pretty much any NBA professional would disagree with the second statement, considering Lou has been considered a combo guard.

Don · Post #1627 » by **Don** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:42 am

In tier 2 lie most of the others & here I would include Philly, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, possibly Toronto, Charlotte, & Washington.

Corwin, I agree with your line of thought.

83SixersRocked · Post #1628 » by **83SixersRocked** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:05 am

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:We're not talking about in-prime Mike Bibby. We're talking about a decent PG who sometimes fails to show up for games at a time.

Im talking about the Bibby that was #8 in the NBA in AST-TO ratio last year. He knows how to run a team. He's not dead yet, he's still a good player.

76ers76ers · Post #1629 » by **76ers76ers** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:42 am

Isiah Thomas>>>Mike Bibby ............Is that better??

76ers76ers · Post #1630 » by **76ers76ers** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:44 am

Dedicated, did you raise Lou Williams ratings on NBA LIVE?

ITK9 · Post #1631 » by **ITK9** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:59 pm

Seriously, is there any question mark that Altana is a MUCH better team than us? lol

ankle420breaker · Post #1632 » by **ankle420breaker** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:33 pm

I love how Lou can come off a regressing season and a pitiful post season and still be considered better than both Mike Bibby and Andre Miller.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1633 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:57 pm

And it's almost insulting that I have to deal with this. "Regressing" and inconsistent are two entirely different things. Realize that there are 82 games in a season. He played better towards the final 30 or so. He showed us PG potential, or did you forget? You likely did.

I'm not going to make excuses for Lou Williams, but I will point this out: Tony Dileo took out M-16 from the playoffs. That was the only thing Lou could pass too off the bench. It made our 2nd unit, that much worse.

I mean, have you ever tried playing 1-on-5? Only Allen Iverson accomplished the feat(2001) but he didn't face opponents the quality of Orlando.

Mike Bibby is a situational PG that fills a certain role, the same kind of PG Lou Williams will be this season for us. But Lou will fit much better in his role. All he has to do is complete the initial pass, how difficult do you think be?

He's basically an additional 2 guard in the lineup. One that's very good when you let him play to his strengths: Getting to the rack and getting quality shots.

Let's bring up the stats of one: Gilbert Arenas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/s ... ayerId=974

Sans those 2 games(And he obviously wasn't ready to come back 6-23, UGH) Gilbert Arenas has never averaged more then 6 assists.

Infact, he only hit the feat twice in his career(05-07).

You mean to tell me you don't expect Lou Williams to pull this off? Kid's a natural scorer. And he's been humbled. HS starter, then he had to work his way through the NBA.

Unlike Allen Iverson, kid knows what it takes to win in the league. And if that's G.A's stats, I think your worries about Lou is quelled.

Andre Miller,lord knows I HATE him. He's inconsistent. And for those of you saying "We didn't have offense". We added a 20/10 forward, and a kid that averaged 15 PPG over the course of the season(Thad Young). And he barely averaged 5 assists at the beginning of the year.

He's an iso heavy guard that sometimes plays like a PG, more times like a 2 guard.

Court_visioN · Post #1634 » by **Court_visioN** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:14 pm

http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/0809PHI.HTM

andre miller's +/- throughout the playoffs was an astonishing -28.3
lou williams at least had a +/- of +16.6 ... neither player did well defensively, but the -28.3 +/- really surprised me.

I'm also very surprised that the only guy with with a positive roland rating was Iguodala. 19 points of production while giving up only 5 is pretty damn good.

youngcrev · Post #1635 » by **youngcrev** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:18 pm

ITK9 wrote:Seriously, is there any question mark that Altana is a MUCH better team than us? lol

I think they'd definitely have to be considered better than us right now, but the truth is we have no clue how good (or bad) the Sixers are going to be next year. Some of us appear to be much more optimistic than others.

Post #1636 » by **dbodner** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:32 pm

andre miller's +/- throughout the playoffs was an astonishing -28.3
lou williams at least had a +/- of +16.6 ... neither player did well defensively, but the -28.3 +/- really surprised me.

Miller played 258 out of 288. The 30 minutes in the playoffs he didn't play is too small to be statistically relevant. The difference between being even and being +17.7 pp48 minutes is a measly 11 points. That could be one bad run. If that's the basis of your argument, it's a very weak one IMO. Especially while ignoring the fact that Miller was +7.1 to williams -3.6 over the course of the season (2976 minutes for Miller, 1919 for Williams. Much better sample sizes than 30 minutes miller missed during the playoffs).

youngcrev · Post #1637 » by **youngcrev** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:46 pm

dbodner wrote:
andre miller's +/- throughout the playoffs was an astonishing -28.3
lou williams at least had a +/- of +16.6 ... neither player did well defensively, but the -28.3 +/- really surprised me.

Miller played 258 out of 288. The 30 minutes in the playoffs he didn't play is too small to be statistically relevant. The difference between being even and being +17.7 pp48 minutes is a measly 11 points. That could be one bad run. If that's the basis of your argument, it's a very weak one IMO. Especially while ignoring the fact that Miller was +7.1 to williams -3.6 over the course of the season (2976 minutes for Miller, 1919 for Williams. Much better sample sizes than 30 minutes miller missed during the playoffs).

In addition to this, Lou's minutes came almost exclusively at the 2 during the playoffs. Looking at the 5-man unit section, only 8 of his minutes came without Andre Miller (and all of them came with our +/- leader, Iguodala).

Lou's positive +/- really just shows that we performed better with him on the court in place of Willie Green, not Andre Miller.

Dedicated_76ers_fan · Post #1638 » by **Dedicated_76ers_fan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 5:51 pm

Stats don't replace what you see on the floor, Andre Miller was a very bad PG last year. We needed him to average 7 assists at least in order to win ball games.

You can check it out on your site DBods, when Miller averaged 7 assists:

25-17 when Miller passes for at least 7 assists

18-28 when he fails to pass for at least 7 assists

Source: Dbod's site: http://nba.phillyarena.com/teamstats/

Miller's willingness to pass was the difference between a winning basketball team and a lottery bound one.

This might have been acceptable the year prior, but with Brand we needed something different out of Miller. We didn't get it.

He's strictly an average PG, who had flaws that prevented him from being a good fit.

Post #1639 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:21 pm

He couldn't get assists because Lou Williams kept shooting bricks when Miller passed him the ball.

Post #1640 » by **Sixerscan** » Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:23 pm

Dedicated_76ers_fan wrote:
You mean to tell me you don't expect Lou Williams to pull this off? Kid's a natural scorer. And he's been humbled. HS starter, then he had to work his way through the NBA.

Lol he started in high school