Tom Moore 2.0

[corwin]

Sounds like Dalembert plans on talking to Eddie Jordan while he's in Central Florida (Orlando Pro Summer League ends Friday).

Jordan is supposed to be such a great communicator. Hey, let's hope he talks back to Sam. IMO Sam's staying & Jordan will have to figure out how to get the most out of him or how to keep him happy while he's riding the pine. Should be interesting!

[tk76]

EJ had one on staff for the Wiz- can't recall the name (Dannie and reclinerGM metioned him.) Likely the same guy.

[psykosacul]

I I'm getting a tad impatient with the free agency process. We're not getting anything great out of it but this Miller thing has been frustrating for at least 6 months now.

It was clear last year when miller did the radio interview and danced around the question of wanting to come back and liking to play here that he did NOT want to return. I gave up on him returning then. Odd that money is now the reason as opposed to him finding another team that wants him, but still, it saved me a lot of agonizing about whether he would return or not.

and honestly... if miller is a no go, i would try to find a team would use brand to get over the hump and be a title contender. Im a big fan of brand, and signing him, but with no PG, i dont see the point of not blowing it up.

[psykosacul]

Was just told this: "There is nothing going on (sign-and-trade wise) in Portland. There never was."

Asked where Miller will end up and was told it's unclear because he wants more than the MLE.

Thanks for these kinds of notes. This and the "miller was only ever offered 1yr/6mill. are the kinds of info we always question because they clear up rumors that float around and become fact.

much appreciated

[ryst]

maybe i am delusional , maybe i dont know what i am talking about

but i dont know how you guys can give Stefanski a pass for the no show he is doing this summer.
this team can be turned into contender and its not even that hard.

you trade Thad and Dalembert for Amare stoudemire(lets face it ,most likely Thad will never be as good as Amare, the suns will take Sam because of the high value and future of Thad Young)

then you trade brand for a top notch SG with a big contract as well(please dont give me the Dalmebert line that his contract is untradeable , thats bull) and there are many options(redd,kevin martin,caron butler,monta ellis,jason richardson)

you resign Miller,let Speigths and Jason smith play center, sign some key veterns who will come to a contending team(like they came to boston),and a couple of minimium guys to fill the bench and there you have it.
a line up of:
Miller/williams/holiday
SG/williams/green
Iguodala/Kapono/filler(Carney?)
Amare/smith/filler
Speights/smith/filler

this team will contend , and this is just one idea
there are planty of moves to be made and planty of chances

the owner dont want to spend more money and the GM is clueless

[Westbrook36ptII]

lmao...

Not sure where to even start with that post Ryst.

This isn't NBA Live for starters. Maybe you have been playing too much.

[ryst]

lmao...

Not sure where to even start with that post Ryst.

This isn't NBA Live for starters. Maybe you have been playing too much.

i have been playing a lot

last game i was the magic and i traded a rookie and expiring conracts to get vince carter

after that i was the spurs and traded 3 expiring contracts for richard jefferson

i gave a shot with cleveland and was able to trade scrubs like pavlovic and ben wallace for shaq

then i was dallas and somehow made a very complicated 4 team trade with 8 players that can only be done in NBA live(no one will ever do it in real life huh) including 2 s&t ,cash changing hands,players to be moved,players to be cut, the best fantasy trade i ever did

all that in two weeks of work , can you belive it?

[radrmd216]

Corwin, I think player's agnts demand escalating contracts becuase a new contract can be based on the previous one. I know Tom knows the actual numbers, but it might be something like a certain starting salary for years of sevice or 125% of the previous contract so Brand and Iggy would definitely want the last year of their contract to be very expensive.

Sixerfan, I know as fan you want the sxiers to make a move but the sixers are a business so adding an overpaid older player doesn't seem like a good move from a business standpoint.

It does seem like adding Brand last year an now not re-signing Miller are contradictory but a lot has happened over the past year. I'm sure the front office thought Brand would put the sixers into title contention and put people in the seats but neiher happened, so at this point Ed wants to keep his job (which is understandable), he wants to add very little salary (which is understandable), and he might be looking to the future. maybe Ed wants Brand to get back some trade so a move at the deadlin is possible.

There is no move at all to be made right now regarding Brand, so we has fans have to let time pass and see how Ed can furher manipulate the roster. I don't know why Ed doesn't want to sign an MLE type player for one year though. Ed doesn't want to guarentee salary for mroe than 2 years which is a very good move. The NBA's algorithm to derive the cap number and luxury tax is heavily weighted by advertising and league revenue, so I think Ed now sees the Sixers are not a contender and thinks adding salary when he knows the cap and luxury tax number will go down is a bad move.

I think it was Tom who said on July 1st Ed was offering a 1 year contract to Miller so obviosuly Ed knew the cap was going down this year and next year.

I think when we all look back on this offseason we will be happy because the Sixers did not tie up salary is MLE players that wouldn't do a whole lot if regards to winning a championship. The Raptors and possibly Rockets have made signings in Hedo and Ariza becuase they paid to much and they not on the verge of winning a championship. Other teams are going to overpay also in signing Lee and Millsap so us not wasting money is a very good sign for the future. As fans we need a Gm that is a shrewd businessman becuase the last guy wasn't at all. Just becuase the Sixers can afford to use the MLE doesn't mean it should be used. the sixers need to make smart calculated decisions. We should have a thread asking the fans of the teams that signed all the free agents all the ticket prices and merchandise prices are in an economic time like this.

Bottom line is we are not contending with such a young team and we need to give Ed more time becuase the direct decisions made by Billy Kind haven't even ended yet. In a few years when the sixers don't have horrble contracts to unload we will be happy as fans the sixers did not frivolously spend money in the summer of 09.

Sorry for the really long post but there was a lot of questions and comments to be talked about.

[tk76]

"We're in a situation where we have a young nucleus of guys who have playoff experience, but we're going to grow with them," said Sixers general manager Ed Stefanski. "And to go long term on a contract with an older point guard, we don't see that as being a viable option."

I seem to recall last summer they felt "to go long term on a contract with an older"... PF for 80M was , " a viable option."

Can't really fault either decision at the time, but its hard to miss the sudden reversal. The team is rapidly becoming Elton Brand and the kids.

Now every team needs a balance of vets and youth, but...

12M total: Holiday+Young+Speights+Lou+Smith (ages 19-23)
12M: Iguodala(age 25)

11M: Sam(28):
11M total: Green+Kapono (Age 28)
15M: Brand (Age 30)

So they are building around youth while committed to 37M for 4 guys 28+ who are either highly flawed role players or have not made a significant NBA contribution since 2006/7 back when Brand was 27.

At least in 2 years Sam, Green and Kapono all come off the books.

[radrmd216]

Ryst, sorry to say but from your post above you are delusional. There is no way the sixers could make those trades. he sixers could not contend with Smith and Speights as the centers and that the team would at least need a year to gel together.

If you want to post moves that can be made make them realistic. The Suns would laugh at Ed if all he offered for Amare was a horrible contract and a young prospect. Tom has already told us conforiming what we already knew that Brand has virtually no trade value around the league. You have to look from the perspective of the otehr team, and if Amare was on the sixers and the Suns offered us Dalembert and Young we would luagh in their face.

Ryst in those 4 trades you mentioned there is one huge common denominator EXPIRING contracts. The sixers do not have any. Also the sixers can not be called cheap after just giving a free agent to an $80 million contract the previous summer. It must suck to be an NBA owner and have fans love moves you make one minute then hate them when they do not result in a championship. We must all remeber the Sixers are a BUSINESS.

The only moves to be made are 1 year contracts for MLE. That's what Ed needs to get done but those types of players arent that great anyway, so the sixers have very few moves to make.

[ryst]

oh i saw what the sixers did with the huge expring contract of Andre Miller...i mean that was great business...
i wonder how come this teams will always laugh in the face of the sixers yet they made lopsided trades with other teams, maybe Stefanski is telling them jokes?
Thad is just a "young prospect"? reading this board i was under the impression Thad is the next coming of juses crist
so according to this board Thad is one of the best young players in the game , a sure all star,maybe even the next great player but is not good enough to help the suns get rid of the player who they are trying to trade for the past year?

we just heard that the sixers dont want to offer more then one year minimum contracts because they dont want to pay more money and get closer to the tax
they offered Bibby(who i dont even like) one year deal , i am sure he did the laughing in there faces thing...
those are the moves of a cheap owner who spend enough money and dont want to spend more, we are just like the suns when Sarver decided he will not spend any more money at all , they didnt sign anyone ' let free agents walk and make stupid trades to get rid of good and decent players, well at least the suns had a few years of good basketball

[radrmd216]

If I was the GM I would have traded Miller at the deadline for whatever I coudl get because hes been a crutch and we need to see what the Sixers can do without Miller. I guess Ed wanting didn't want to trade Miller as an expiring and maybe there wasn't much to be had for his expiring. You can come up with examples if you want. I think Ed wanting to make the playoffs and Miller gave the Sixers the ebst shot.

Theres no ways around it the Sixers NEEDED to make the playoffs after signing Elton Brand.

What lopsided trade have the Suns made? The Richardson trade didn't work out but it wasn't lopsided. I'd take Richardson over Diaw anyday. They also traded Shaq for expiring contracts to clear a ton of salary. About 90% of Sixers fans wanted Miller traded but that is in the past now and right now there are very few moves to make. Another poster made a great point before, A GM gets criticized for every single move he makes (rightfuly so) but a no one ever calls out a fan on the ridiculous things he or she has said in the past.

[ryst]

many teams make lopsided trades.
every trade for expiring contracts is a lopsided trade in terms of talnet.
so when teams have those expiring contracts most of them make the best of it and get impact players in lopsided trades.
when the sixers had the chance to do that they did nothing.

i dont think fans are criticizing Stefanski moves, he has no moves , he did nothing!
you put a monkey as the sixers GM and he resign Iguodala and sign Brand(the best free agent in the market) and thats all what Stefanski did so far.

[radrmd216]

The difference is that the sixers expring contract was playing very well and pretty much most players whos contracts are expiring are not. I was for signing brand becuase the Sixers were suc a young team, but Ed created cap sapce with a pretty creative trade and convinced Brand and more importantly Brand's agent that the Sixers were the place to sign not Golden State who was offering a lot more money. Could you make a post of some realistic options that don't have the sixers overpaying someone with an MLE contract for 3 years.

[ryst]

i made a lot of realistic options , you just choose not to see it like that.

Jefferson was playing well last year,so did Shaq in the second half of the year and vince carter was playing better then andre miller
yet they were traded for expiring contracts and fillers

like many users of this board like to say, you my friend are drinking the Ed Stefanski cool aid...well good luck with that...

all i see is a clueless GM who sit on his ass and do nothing , reminds me a lot of John Paxon in the last few years(before he made that deadline deal for salmons and miller which Stefanski will never do because salmons and miller are not game changers and have many years left on there contract and we cant spend that much money on players who will not lead thr sixers to a championship)
lets hope that like Paxon the sixers will get lucky and get the first pick in the draft...somehow i dont see it

[radrmd216]

all i see is a clueless GM who sit on his ass and do nothing , reminds me a lot of John Paxon in the last few years(before he made that deadline deal for salmons and miller which Stefanski will never do because salmons and miller are not game changers and have many years left on there contract and we cant spend that much money on players who will not lead thr sixers to a championship)
lets hope that like Paxon the sixers will get lucky and get the first pick in the draft...somehow i dont see it

I hope Ed doesnt get players whos contracts are horrible and won't help the sixers win a championship.

Someone else please tell Ryst the options he talks about are not realistic at all. If the sixers had Amare, Bosh, or kevin Matrin we would not trade them for Dalembert, Thad, or Brand. I don't know why so many fans never think from the perspective of the other team.

Maybe a thread can be made where if people want to keep debating they can becuase I don't to interfer and go off topic in Tom's thread. I'll call the thread "Off-Topic Debating" but TGP can change the name or lock the thread if he thinks it isn't a good idea.

[ryst]

look, its very clear you got your opinion and i got mine, its not gonna change and its all good.

i think that making the Brand abd Dalmebert untradable is crazy.
i also think that Thad Young can get Amare to the sixers in the right trade.

thats why Stefanski is the GM , to make those delas happen, and if he cant do it one on one trade , you always have the option of combine other teams(just like Dallas did the other day)

try harder,work harder , make things go

dont sit on your ass and do nothing telling us fans fairy tales about untradeable players while the entire league is in a trade franzy to get better.

[radrmd216]

Ryst i don't know why yo aren't giving Ed time. Very few teams in the league have made moves and the teams that have are the contending teams. The Sixers are NOT a contending team.

Why would those other teams trade the sixers their best player. If the sixers had Amare wouldn't you want to keep him and try to work on a contract extension or trade him for a better package than what the sixers could offer.

[radrmd216]

Tom sorry for interrupting your thead.

To get back on topic do you think the sixers are making the right moves this summer. If you were the GM would you overpay some MLE type players for 3 years or let the young guys play and get a better sense or how the roster can be further manipulated.

[ryst]

i gave Stefanki the time since he got to the sixers and never said anything bad about him until i saw what he is doing(well not doing) this summer.

what do you mean why teams give their best player? we see that all the time.
teams want to rebuild , teams want to get rid of salary , there are many reasons
the nets gave away their best player
the bucks gave away their best player from last season(redd and bogut were injured most of the year)
when the lakers traded Shaq he was their best player
Minnesta traded Garnett , their best player
ths sonics traded ray allen , their best player
i can go on and on
this kind of thing happen every year