Tom Moore 3.0

[tmoore]

How did the rook look today? I keep hearing that his shot is better than expected, have you noticed this at all?

I heard that EJ is giving daily report cards (or something like that) where he puts up the names of a few players who stood out in practice. Sportsnite was saying that Dalembert and Carney have been on it both days so far in addition to others who weren't mentioned by name.

Holiday has a decent handle, but his shot hasn't been great (in the parts I've seen).

Jordan told us about Carney being on the list of guys who stood out, but Carney didn't seem like he was sure about it. Jordan said 5-6 guys are on the list from each long morning workout.

[tmoore]

how did lou do today?

Lou looked pretty good. Made a few shots, including a deep jumper. Players seemed tired -- third day of workouts and another long one -- and didn't have the energy of the previous two days.

[tmoore]

Tom: How's Carney's handle? I believe we engaged in friendly debate, and in my opinion if his handles aren't good enough you can't play him at 2 guard. Make no mistake, he's a fine swingman. I have no problems with Carney. He could still develop, the tools are there. It's just the mental stuff he needs and I think Eddie will REALLY help with his development.

Carney's handle is OK. He still seems to play too fast -- always going 100 mph -- though he did get some dunks in transition. I think ball-handling, in general, could be an issue.

[sweetlou23]

And yes, thanks again for the updates. As always Sixers.com is useless. They launch this "Training Camp Center," and haven't reported anything since the morning session of day 1. We're one of the only team sites that fails to provide daily reports from training camp.

csnphilly.com has some pretty good stuff. dei lynam has a few interviews and update clips posted.

[ChuckS]

[quote] "Willie Green had a 2-8 performance or similar 50 of the 82 games played last season(Excluding playoffs, which are more or less the same anyway)"


2-8 is 25%. I took everything under his average and came up with 36 games. I even included a couple of 0-1s and a 40% night.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

By comparison, Lou Williams had 23-27 bad games in comparison last year. Now, your right in that shooting is similar. But take a look, in most games Lou either did 1 or 2 other things positive in the game.

He averaged 5.0 FTA. Making 304 of them hence making him an 80% FT shooter. A very good average for our future starting PG. We also saw him starting to make plays as a point in the second half of the season, look at that February-March. Look at his rebounding numbers in several games.

This is called Impact! and it's one of the most critical things to analyze for a player. For example: Even though A.I shot low percentages, he could any shot he wanted in the clutch. This is a high impact player.

Lou Williams may not have had a great year, but he had an average one factoring in the impact rule. There were some games where if you take this rule into account, he had AMAZING games.

Lou Williams is a very solid impact player, that's why he took the important sixth man role.

By comparison, Green who does nothing but chuck(and chucks badly) is a TERRIBLE impact player.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

"Willie Green had a 2-8 performance or similar 50 of the 82 games played last season(Excluding playoffs, which are more or less the same anyway)"


2-8 is 25%. I took everything under his average and came up with 36 games. I even included a couple of 0-1s and a 40% night.

Then my eyes were playing tricks on me lol. 36 is still far too many.

[Welfare Fraud]

Lou had a terrible season. It wasn't average, it was garbage, awful stinky garbage. He can be an impact player but that also means he can impact the game negatively. There was a lot more negative than positive.

I still think Lou can be a good player, he played better in past years and that was his first season after signing the new contract. And now he'll be playing with starters instead of bench scrubs so hopefully the offense won't die every time he touches the ball.

But still, Lou played some of the worst basketball I've ever seen from someone that is supposed to be 6th man quality. IMO Green was by far the better player last season and no one likes to bash Silly Willy more than me.

I don't doubt that Lou will be the better player in the long run... not last season though. It was ugly.

[ankle420breaker]

Lou Williams may not have had a great year, but he had an average one factoring in the impact rule. There were some games where if you take this rule into account, he had AMAZING games.

The impact rule. Wow.

[Welfare Fraud]

Lou Williams may not have had a great year, but he had an average one factoring in the impact rule. There were some games where if you take this rule into account, he had AMAZING games.

The impact rule. Wow.

instant classic

[tmoore]

Asked Jordan when they'd cut and he said they hadn't talked about it, though he acknowledged 17 or 18 guys is too many for Tuesday's preseason opener against the Raptors.

[tmoore]

By comparison, Lou Williams had 23-27 bad games in comparison last year. Now, your right in that shooting is similar. But take a look, in most games Lou either did 1 or 2 other things positive in the game.

He averaged 5.0 FTA. Making 304 of them hence making him an 80% FT shooter. A very good average for our future starting PG. We also saw him starting to make plays as a point in the second half of the season, look at that February-March. Look at his rebounding numbers in several games.

This is called Impact! and it's one of the most critical things to analyze for a player. For example: Even though A.I shot low percentages, he could any shot he wanted in the clutch. This is a high impact player.

Lou Williams may not have had a great year, but he had an average one factoring in the impact rule. There were some games where if you take this rule into account, he had AMAZING games.

Lou Williams is a very solid impact player, that's why he took the important sixth man role.

By comparison, Green who does nothing but chuck(and chucks badly) is a TERRIBLE impact player.

Doesn't take into account defense, where Green is far better than Williams.

[ChuckS]

[quote] "By comparison, Lou Williams had 23-27 bad games in comparison last year."

I counted 42 bad shooting games, and unlike with Willie, I gave Lou credit for 40% games because that was his average.

Our best quarters were the first and third with Willie in. I think this was because of better ball movement and defense. In the interest of alien concepts, fairness and honesty, I will admit that Lou played with more subs in the second quarters.

[corwin]

Green will get 24 mpg IMO. I suspect Iguodala will get about 20 mpg at the 2 & that will leave 76 mpg. I can see Green getting 24 mpg, Lou getting 36 mpg & 16 mpg will be split between Ivey, Holiday & whoever is on the roster. I'll bet Green plays the point some of those minutes.

How will Iguodala get only 20 minutes at the 2?

Maybe that's a little short but with the make-up of the team I see him getting some time at the 3 also. Say 20 at the 2 & another 16-18 minutes at the 3 & he's playing 36-38 minutes. That would leave Thad with the lion's share of minutes at the 3 with a few at the 4.

[ojr107]

I don't want to get bogged down into the who had a worse year debate, Lou or Willie, but just want to mention that FG % is a poor way for deciding who was a more efficient scorer. SP fails to to take into consideration 3 point shots and players who get to the line frequently. A much better statistic to use is points per shot.

L. Williams scored 1.23 points per FGA.
Willie Green 1.04 points per FGA.

Both shot the 3 point shot poorly last year, but L. Williams made 304 free throws, while Willie Green made 62. So, despite Willie the fact that Willie shot .44 from the field and Lou Williams shot .40, Williams was a more efficient scorer.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

I remember the Denver and Dallas games(Both away). Our starters and Green were getting their asses kicked. In comes Lou Williams, and we get right back to the ball-game. Now, yes there are times in runs where your flat out shooting the basketball well but in every run, you must play some solid defense.

Remember, first day of training camp Eddie Jordan said: "Lou Williams is a better defensive guard then Andre Miller". Lou Williams may not look flashy defensively, but at times he gets in the grill of guys. He stays in front of them. Maybe not all the time, but some of it. He's slightly below average.

Now, let's look at 82games.com. "Production" is the very same as my use of the term "Impact"

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809PHI.HTM

Individually, Willie Green has a Net Production of -4.3

Individually, Lou Williams has a Net Production of +2.1

On/Off court for both last year is therefore decieving, Willie Green is playing with far superior starters that minimize the individual damage(at least stat-wise) Green causes.

Whereas, we note that we had a terrible bench last year, right? So Lou would've had to be a very good player to lift his lack of talent. Sometimes Iggy would play with him, more then enough times Miller as well. But a Miller-Williams back-court is beyond terrible co-existence. Both need the ball, whereas Lou can play without the ball at times, Miller cannot.

Williams was doomed from the start with only Iggy, Speights. Green had the benefit of a much better starting lineup hiding his great defiencies.

But Roland Ratings hold true to the story as Williams's rating is far superior (-0.2) to Green's(-2.5)

Now, to analyze defense for Willie Green. This is his calling card supposedly.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHI4.HTM

Per 48 minutes, his opponents SG'S would average 18 PPG on 47% shooting.

Now, I'll be fair. Williams's numbers defensively aren't so hot either. But I feel that he has given effort defensively, so does Eddie feel that way too.

[Mik317]

Willay Green is the future - Knux-Future 3 years ago

I STILL BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!1


seriously I'm am surprisingly hype for basketball season this year. I guess because College Football is lame this year and the NFL isn't as exiting ( I blame Madden10 for that seriously that game blows)...but I ready for SIXERS BASKETBALL, with the HAWD DUNKZ, the WILLAY GREENZ, the WTF WAS THAT SAMMY'S, the Iggy pouts, the Thad>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jesus + Jordan posts, the Dond afterloss posts that reminds us that we suck, the <insert player here> suckz balls...ect.

I've missed it all....now watch them completely **** the bed.

[ChuckS]

[quote] Remember, first day of training camp Eddie Jordan said: "Lou Williams is a better defensive guard then Andre Miller".

Actually, that is an incorrect quote, although I agree that is what Jordan was trying to convince us of without lying.

I remember it being something like: We have a more willing defender at point guard. I remember thinking what the hell is that bullcrap. He cannot really believe that Lou was a better defender than anyone in the free world last year...unless he is a blithering idiot.

But I like "willing". Willing is nice.

[76ciology]

I have a feeling that carney might get the nod over kapono occasionaly at the sf spot....

Short night practice -- concentrated on shooting.

Kapono hasn't hit many jumpers so far, but Jordan said the players are tired and don't have their legs.

How did Iggy and thad shot look.Did they look improved?

http://ow.ly/rJeF
Watch 1:04 - 1:06, I think it's improved. Reminds me a bit of Ricky Barry.

[sixerswillrule]

Green will get 24 mpg IMO. I suspect Iguodala will get about 20 mpg at the 2 & that will leave 76 mpg. I can see Green getting 24 mpg, Lou getting 36 mpg & 16 mpg will be split between Ivey, Holiday & whoever is on the roster. I'll bet Green plays the point some of those minutes.

How will Iguodala get only 20 minutes at the 2?

Maybe that's a little short but with the make-up of the team I see him getting some time at the 3 also. Say 20 at the 2 & another 16-18 minutes at the 3 & he's playing 36-38 minutes. That would leave Thad with the lion's share of minutes at the 3 with a few at the 4.

So Kapono doesn't play at all?