Spanish La Liga Discussion Thread

[ecuhus1981]

AUPA ATLETI!!!!

I'm very proud of our squad, this was a difficult season. Pundits will claim that in retrospect, the team that has suffering in its DNA was meant to win this long-suffering season. But we know, it was far from pre-ordained.

I'll be interested to see how La Liga changes going forward. Valencia will be back in the hunt for at least European football. Real and Barça will re-stock with the best talent in the world. I think that Atlético will extend Simeone, but I think some other mainstays will depart. I'm guessing Oblak to Chelsea (with Kepa returning to Spain), Lemar to Arsenal, Trippier to... maybe Everton? Felix won't fetch half of what we paid, so he'll stay and hopefully adapt to life under Cholo's regime. Hopefully, we can reload and challenge for more trophies!

[HIF]

AUPA ATLETI!!!!

I'm very proud of our squad, this was a difficult season. Pundits will claim that in retrospect, the team that has suffering in its DNA was meant to win this long-suffering season. But we know, it was far from pre-ordained.

I'll be interested to see how La Liga changes going forward. Valencia will be back in the hunt for at least European football. Real and Barça will re-stock with the best talent in the world. I think that Atlético will extend Simeone, but I think some other mainstays will depart. I'm guessing Oblak to Chelsea (with Kepa returning to Spain), Lemar to Arsenal, Trippier to... maybe Everton? Felix won't fetch half of what we paid, so he'll stay and hopefully adapt to life under Cholo's regime. Hopefully, we can reload and challenge for more trophies!

congratulations.

It'll be interesting to see how the big 2 re-tool given their financial circumstances and ridiculous wages.

[SgtPepper]

Touching back on that last point, Madrid and Barca seem an absolute mess. Barca's disaster is next level, but Madrid's summer has been overpaying for a free transfer in Alaba while losing 2 wc centerbacks with no ETA on quality replenishment. Now Madrid has only 6 wc players in the 11, with 2 aged 33+ and 1 other whose contract ends next summer anyways. Quite strong signaling that Madrid couldn't attract Upamecano and that they lost Varane to a team that's struggled a lot over the last 3 years but progressively improved.

I think Atleti has the best shot at a continental run but they had some regression issues in midfield last season.

[MalagaBulls]

Touching back on that last point, Madrid and Barca seem an absolute mess. Barca's disaster is next level, but Madrid's summer has been overpaying for a free transfer in Alaba while losing 2 wc centerbacks with no ETA on quality replenishment. Now Madrid has only 6 wc players in the 11, with 2 aged 33+ and 1 other whose contract ends next summer anyways. Quite strong signaling that Madrid couldn't attract Upamecano and that they lost Varane to a team that's struggled a lot over the last 3 years but progressively improved.

I think Atleti has the best shot at a continental run but they had some regression issues in midfield last season.

How would you feel about Madrid's chances if they sign Mbappe during this transfer window?

[ecuhus1981]

Touching back on that last point, Madrid and Barca seem an absolute mess. Barca's disaster is next level, but Madrid's summer has been overpaying for a free transfer in Alaba while losing 2 wc centerbacks with no ETA on quality replenishment. Now Madrid has only 6 wc players in the 11, with 2 aged 33+ and 1 other whose contract ends next summer anyways. Quite strong signaling that Madrid couldn't attract Upamecano and that they lost Varane to a team that's struggled a lot over the last 3 years but progressively improved.

I think Atleti has the best shot at a continental run but they had some regression issues in midfield last season.

How would you feel about Madrid's chances if they sign Mbappe during this transfer window?

They have certainly kept their financial powder dry this summer, hoping for just such an opportunity.

Still, I think it's a long shot that Mbappe leaves PSG this transfer window. Real have not met PSG's fee demands, and I'll bet they call Kylian's bluff. I don't think he's as dead-set on going to Madrid as he was, now thathis childhood idol Zidane is gone. Also, PSG are poised to win the next 2 Champions League titles, and challenge for more. Can he truly say he's ready to throw that away to go to a club in disarray?

[SgtPepper]

I thought the Mbappe rumor made little sense from the player's perspective especially from the start of 19-20 when PSG overtook Madrid in quality, and since this summer a lot of EPL teams could offer similar or better squad development packages to Madrid. I thought Mbappe's press re Madrid this summer was mostly just shopping for winter options where he would likely consider compelling Europe options or re-uping with PSG.

I do think there's a hail mary shot that he joins Madrid on free in the winter, but the most probable outcome is he leaves for the EPL. So from that view Madrid's bid this summer was serious since they lose bargaining power to the player in the winter.

I've been pensive about Madrid and la liga's backslide over the last 3 years, but I couldn't have imagined the carnage of this summer. La liga and Tebas have done a terrible job of protecting la liga's attractiveness as a destination for WC talent.

@MalagaBulls- If he came for this fee I would have a lot of reservations. The rest of the Madrid squad is in bad shape, exacerbated by Ancelotti coming in and puffing the old guard who should be expedited out like Marcelo and Modric. Modric is still able to keep WC form somewhat but with Odeegard and Ceballos in the squad, it's so sad that Odee got sold when in 1 season it will be clear that both of these guys could give Madrid better long-term returns. I think Madrid is probably favorites for the league with Bale returning this season, but the whole league has gone down a tier so I'm really unexcited to watch it. i just catch the odd Villareal game these days.

[Foye]

Barca might actually have to field Braithwaite and Luuk de Jong as starting strikers in some games this season. Thats like on the same level as Mainz strikers.

Koeman and Bartomeu have really run this club into the ground.

Koeman even saying Barca have never had a striker like Luuk de Jong...this club is so done.

[MalagaBulls]

I thought the Mbappe rumor made little sense from the player's perspective especially from the start of 19-20 when PSG overtook Madrid in quality, and since this summer a lot of EPL teams could offer similar or better squad development packages to Madrid. I thought Mbappe's press re Madrid this summer was mostly just shopping for winter options where he would likely consider compelling Europe options or re-uping with PSG.

I do think there's a hail mary shot that he joins Madrid on free in the winter, but the most probable outcome is he leaves for the EPL. So from that view Madrid's bid this summer was serious since they lose bargaining power to the player in the winter.

I've been pensive about Madrid and la liga's backslide over the last 3 years, but I couldn't have imagined the carnage of this summer. La liga and Tebas have done a terrible job of protecting la liga's attractiveness as a destination for WC talent.

@MalagaBulls- If he came for this fee I would have a lot of reservations. The rest of the Madrid squad is in bad shape, exacerbated by Ancelotti coming in and puffing the old guard who should be expedited out like Marcelo and Modric. Modric is still able to keep WC form somewhat but with Odeegard and Ceballos in the squad, it's so sad that Odee got sold when in 1 season it will be clear that both of these guys could give Madrid better long-term returns. I think Madrid is probably favorites for the league with Bale returning this season, but the whole league has gone down a tier so I'm really unexcited to watch it. i just catch the odd Villareal game these days.

Adding Camavinga to the mid-field will help. He is a quality defender, good in open space, good dribbler, & can pass well.
Who knows, Ancoletti may see striker potential in him.

[SgtPepper]

I'm struggling to feel positive about it when Madrid just sold a very similar speculative signing in Odeegard this window. Madrid since Ronaldo left has been saturated with speculative players with a long runway to peak and therefore bear a lot of risk of premature failure. Midfield was also the one part of the pitch the club had both high quality and depth (since 2013- really), so I view Camavinga mostly as a (gratuitous) brand statement rather than a natural solution.

[SgtPepper]

None of the sides look UCL continental level currently.

[MalagaBulls]

None of the sides look UCL continental level currently.

Overall LaLiga is lacking in star power and real difference makers this season. We will have to see what 2022 brings.

[Cactus Jack]

Read on Twitter

[fbalmeida]

I was hoping they'd wait until after the 2nd leg of the CL game against Benfica.

[SgtPepper]

It's ok. They're still probably going to play Roberto at rightback for no explicable reason so Benfica have a good chance at remontada.

[SgtPepper]

Atleti lost Trippier. Barca self-degradation continues.
But Real is in a much better place than I would have expected last summer. I'm pretty excited to see how the CL ties for both Madrids turn out, especially the Atleti-Utd one since both sides seem a bit of a mess currently and I'm curious if Ronaldo finds a way to maintain his excellent record against Atleti with multiple teams.

[Foye]

Atleti lost Trippier. Barca self-degradation continues.
But Real is in a much better place than I would have expected last summer. I'm pretty excited to see how the CL ties for both Madrids turn out, especially the Atleti-Utd one since both sides seem a bit of a mess currently and I'm curious if Ronaldo finds a way to maintain his excellent record against Atleti with multiple teams.

Real are clearly building the future of the team.
With Vinicius Jr, Camavinga & Mbappe they'll be hard to beat in the future.
Can imagine they are going to be adding at least one young superstar to the youth core every season and you can figure they'll be dominant for years.

Atletico team is aging. A lot of guys are still in their prime, though. So not sure what caused them to fall off the cliff this year already.
Maybe just an off-year after having won the title last year. Felix is a talented player but he doesn't have much to show for it.
I see him never justifiying that incredibly high transfer fee. He is very skilled but doesn't bring it every night.

Barca is in shambles.
Their most promissing player Fati is always injured. Other than that they have terrible team chemistry and not so many Barca-worthy players to begin with. Pedri and Gavi already have high market value but haven't actually shown much so far in terms of the big stage.
Ferran Torres should help, though.
Also, I am not entirely convinced the house of cards Barca officials have set up in terms of debt won't ride this club into insolvency.

[SgtPepper]

With Real I'm impressed with how quickly Ancelotti has optimized for the attacking ceiling, like in 13-14. Structurally there's as many long-term reasons for concern as optimism from the POV of a spoiled fan who would like to see a regular CL challenge. Specifically, Hazard and Jovic are on long contracts (Haz is about to finish his 3rd year out of a 5 year contract netting about 1/2 a season of playtime consisting of pretty mediocre form) and on performance I think it would be better for the squad to cut them ASAP and feed the minutes to rotation. Also I'm worried about VInicius if the Mbappe rumors are true, as Mbappe likes the left wing a lot and Benz might continue his form for a few years more. I could see Vini get juggled around rather than protected. Ideally from a longterm view we would see Vini at left and Mbappe eventually set as primary or as 1 of the strikers with Benz as secondary or 10 (especially if Modric gets pushed). I also am concerned with prolonging Modric's contracts, as he's 36 and for the last 2 seasons in Europe Madrid got ko'ed by IMO equal teams who outworked them in midfield. Kroosemiro are relatively the future (though Kroos is 32/33 and has claimed he may retire next year) but immobile, and I hope they stop avoiding the succession planning and instead find a way to make Fede work or get someone in like Bernardo who has similar workrate + skill as peak Modric. Madrid also needs a right winger and either a higher quality centerback or rightback over the next 2 seasons. I think Grabry would be the reach dream target on the former.

IMO Atleti is age + erratic player development. All the generational Simeone midfielders seem to have hit some sort of ceiling despite being near their peak years. It doesn't help that there's a form drop by very old starters while Simeone is trying to cover this through pretty unnatural team shapes. Also Antoine was never going to add that much, though I think most of Barca's sales/loans were higher talent and level than the current squad in use.

[SgtPepper]

4-2 Barca-Atleti. This was like a 2014 Serie A game. Some bad luck with respect to xG, but this bodes bad for Atleti as they were beaten by a Europa level team and Simeone made bad tactical decisions for 2/3 of the match after taking too long to understand how Barca's new backline works.

[Foye]

With Real I'm impressed with how quickly Ancelotti has optimized for the attacking ceiling, like in 13-14. Structurally there's as many long-term reasons for concern as optimism from the POV of a spoiled fan who would like to see a regular CL challenge. Specifically, Hazard and Jovic are on long contracts (Haz is about to finish his 3rd year out of a 5 year contract netting about 1/2 a season of playtime consisting of pretty mediocre form) and on performance I think it would be better for the squad to cut them ASAP and feed the minutes to rotation. Also I'm worried about VInicius if the Mbappe rumors are true, as Mbappe likes the left wing a lot and Benz might continue his form for a few years more. I could see Vini get juggled around rather than protected. Ideally from a longterm view we would see Vini at left and Mbappe eventually set as primary or as 1 of the strikers with Benz as secondary or 10 (especially if Modric gets pushed). I also am concerned with prolonging Modric's contracts, as he's 36 and for the last 2 seasons in Europe Madrid got ko'ed by IMO equal teams who outworked them in midfield. Kroosemiro are relatively the future (though Kroos is 32/33 and has claimed he may retire next year) but immobile, and I hope they stop avoiding the succession planning and instead find a way to make Fede work or get someone in like Bernardo who has similar workrate + skill as peak Modric. Madrid also needs a right winger and either a higher quality centerback or rightback over the next 2 seasons. I think Grabry would be the reach dream target on the former.

IMO Atleti is age + erratic player development. All the generational Simeone midfielders seem to have hit some sort of ceiling despite being near their peak years. It doesn't help that there's a form drop by very old starters while Simeone is trying to cover this through pretty unnatural team shapes. Also Antoine was never going to add that much, though I think most of Barca's sales/loans were higher talent and level than the current squad in use.

I agree on the short-term outlook being a little spoiled by the likes of Hazard and Jovic + aging Modric + Kroos etc.
3-4 years from now, Real will be top class again, though. All it takes is 2-3 smart buys I think.

[SgtPepper]

Madrid's double this season is a bit of a Cinderalla story covering some bigger questions about the recovery of la liga in general. Barca is a Spanish Man U, but I'll watch Atleti closely to see whether they rebalance better. It is a bummer to see a competitive team in Villareal (which kicked Barca in the final matchday) not in any continental competition while teams which are likely to be mined or drop like Betis and Sevilla in the remaining spots.