OT: Atleast 127 killed after riot at football match

[The4thHorseman]

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

[Castle Black]

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jumped twice on our way out. My buddy took his jersey off and walked out shirtless. It was pure chaos.

[Blame Rasho]

:wink:

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jump twice on our way out. It was pure chaos.

Yeah that and the p¥t0 chant will always be with the Mexican national team. They had to stop the game again vs Colombia this past week. It is awesome though… still think it really isn’t a slur like they make it out to be. It is more like F U to the goalie for the goal kick.

[heezyo2o]

I love soccer but honestly Indonesia has never been on my radar as a football crazy country. I had to check their ranking and they are ranked 155 in fifa which is absurd given how big that country is. Most people know have a grasp of how big that country is.

Population theory never really works in sports otherwise countries like the US would be near the top all the time

It more than population, it is the resources that are put into the sport. There is a reason why a small country like Uruguay is a soccer mainstay.

Yes of course. Since you mentioned it though, the US puts a lot of money into soccer, much more than smaller countries yet the smaller countries are simply better at that sport.

There is simply lack of interest and it's not part of the culture here...I think that's the biggest difference. If little kids in the US grew up loving soccer like they do say in brazil then I think the US could be a soccer power. Just hard to compete with the NBA and NFL here. Even baseball is falling behind in interest from where it used to be

[Mamba81p]

:wink:

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jump twice on our way out. It was pure chaos.

Mexican fans are the worst in North America. Homophonic scumbags. Not much different than some European hooligans.
Unfortunately soccer is not a game that you want to attend in most countries. Trash culture, full of scumbags that are just looking for trouble.

[ShootersShoot]

I get being passionate about sports but to turn to violence over it? Insane..if you have ever gotten violent over sports screw you..

[RSP83]

So, based on the article in the OP (and obviously assuming that their reporting is accurate) this is what happened:

- Fans of the home team stormed the pitch after their team lost.

- The police pushed them back into the stands, hitting some with their batons and kicking others.

- Tear gas was launched on the pitch and into the stands as the situation escalated.

- Fans struggled to find refuge and many have subsequently lost their lives after falling to the ground or being trampled on.

- Local media outlet Kompas claims the tear gas did not disperse, leading to shortness of breath and loss of consciousness.

Based on all that, this was not a situation were fans of opposing teams came to blows. This looks to be between and the fans and the police and, sadly, it seems that the police escalated that situation by throwing tear gas into the stands. Doing that is incredibly dangerous. The stands are not a flat surface. If you cannot see due to the tear gas then you can easily trip, fall and get crushed. It also causes panic and panic in such an environment can easily cause stampedes. We have seen that happen in the past in similar events in stadiums (the Karaiskakis Stadium disaster always come to mind when I read about stuff like that but that's definitely because I'm Greek and I grew up hearing about that particular tragedy).

The fact that the tear gas did not disperse could mean that they were expired. I have seen police forces use expired tear gas pretty often in my neck of the woods so it wouldn't shock me if that was the case here. This seems like an extremely sad situation that could have been avoided. I hope that the families of the victims are able to find peace. Rest in peace

I'm a local there. You describe what happened correctly. It's been on the news all day. The whole country is mourning the loss.

Just want to add a few additional details. This match was between 2 of the biggest rivalry in the local league, it's between 2 clubs (Arema and Persebaya) from the same province (East Java). We don't have that kind of rivalry equivalent in the NBA. But this is normal in soccer (usually called derby match).

Yes, the police security protocol was at fault here. But at the same time, Indonesia's national soccer association and the league organizer is one of the worst in the world. Prior to the match they've been warned by security intelligence that they should move the match to earlier time to avoid hosting the match at evening time, which according to the security intelligence they found high security concern/risk. But that warning was ignored. Another stupid thing was the league organizer somehow sold more tickets (42k) more than the stadium capacity allowed (35k). Despite they were also given permission to only sell 25k tickets based on agreement with the police to reduce risk. This was somehow ignored and the police did nothing. Yes, this country is severely corrupted.

Thank you for the reply. A local's perspective is always crucial in situations like this one. I hope that you didn't lose a loved one in this tragedy

Thanks for the kind gesture. Luckily I don't have any family member in attendance.

[Lalouie]

it's nationalism

[RSP83]

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

The league organizer and national soccer association made this rule because of past incidents, and only to selected high risk matches. Riots between supporters happened many times, especially when rival teams play each other. There was another incident between another rival teams not too long before covid, that incident was enough for the association to implement this rule. In here, you don't want to be anywhere near these 2 matches between rival teams: Persija Jakarta vs. Persib Bandung, and Persebaya Surabaya vs. Arema Malang (the subject match of this thread).

Ironically, riot still happen, and this incident still happened despite only having the home team supporters in the stand.

[NO-KG-AI]

Population theory never really works in sports otherwise countries like the US would be near the top all the time

It more than population, it is the resources that are put into the sport. There is a reason why a small country like Uruguay is a soccer mainstay.

Yes of course. Since you mentioned it though, the US puts a lot of money into soccer, much more than smaller countries yet the smaller countries are simply better at that sport.

There is simply lack of interest and it's not part of the culture here...I think that's the biggest difference. If little kids in the US grew up loving soccer like they do say in brazil then I think the US could be a soccer power. Just hard to compete with the NBA and NFL here. Even baseball is falling behind in interest from where it used to be

The US probably won’t care about soccer unless the US becomes the best at it or very close to it, but that probably can’t happen until people truly care about it.

I think people outside of the US and football cities really under estimate how many resources go into American football here. It’s gonna be a long long time before Soccer could truly start poaching top athletes from the other major sports. It’s a long way off in terms of money making potential in the US, and the prestige/fame involved.

[Nuntius]

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

The league organizer and national soccer association made this rule because of past incidents, and only to selected high risk matches. Riots between supporters happened many times, especially when rival teams play each other. There was another incident between another rival teams not too long before covid, that incident was enough for the association to implement this rule. In here, you don't want to be anywhere near these 2 matches between rival teams: Persija Jakarta vs. Persib Bandung, and Persebaya Surabaya vs. Arema Malang (the subject match of this thread).

Ironically, riot still happen, and this incident still happened despite only having the home team supporters in the stand.

Yep. It's like that in Greece as well. When a derby is on, it is very rare to see fans of both teams attending. It will either be fans of the home team or no fans at all.

[Blame Rasho]

When I mean by resources I mean more than just money, I mean cultural resources like it was said previously. If soccer is such a big deal in Indonesia, I would expect them to be better internationally. Like I understand like a country like India that there isn’t a “culture of sports” other than cricket and thus the reason we don’t see them ever being good in soccer or most traditional Olympic Games at least in my lifetime. I would be happy if the US gets out of the group stage in the World Cup, and hope they can ride Christian Pulisic because he is the only world class talent that has some mofo in him. Yeah I am all over the place.

[Pachinko_]

There is simply lack of interest and it's not part of the culture here...I think that's the biggest difference. If little kids in the US grew up loving soccer like they do say in brazil then I think the US could be a soccer power. Just hard to compete with the NBA and NFL here. Even baseball is falling behind in interest from where it used to be

What do short white kids play?

Generally in soccer there is a strong correlation between making the sport free to play and talent production. It's free in south america, that's where most top talent comes from. You can't just create an expensive club, add a membership fee and sit on your hands and wait for the kids to show up, you have to go find them, often in the poorest neighbourhoods, and give them a chance to play.

[Shock Defeat]

So the police caused 150+ people to die. That should be the article title.

[Sedale Threatt]

:wink:

When the home team won't even allow the opposing fans into the stadium, that should be a tell of the mindset and that things are **** up.

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jump twice on our way out. It was pure chaos.

Mexican fans are the worst in North America. Homophonic scumbags. Not much different than some European hooligans.
Unfortunately soccer is not a game that you want to attend in most countries. Trash culture, full of scumbags that are just looking for trouble.

I went to a USA-Mexico match at the Cotton Bowl 15 years or so ago and it was almost apocalyptic. I was covering the game for a newspaper and they actually led us down through the crowd, which was about 95 pct Mexico fans, to the field for interviews. I look over at one point and some dude's burning a freaking phone book. A dude in front of me got hit with a cup of beer. (We think it was beer.) And so on. I imagine a lot of people enjoy that kind of, uh, rowdiness but I look at it like Mardis Gras or a nightclub -- you'd have to pay me to go, and even then I probably wouldn't.

[JDR720]

:wink:

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jump twice on our way out. It was pure chaos.

Mexican fans are the worst in North America. Homophonic scumbags. Not much different than some European hooligans.
Unfortunately soccer is not a game that you want to attend in most countries. Trash culture, full of scumbags that are just looking for trouble.

I went to a USA-Mexico match at the Cotton Bowl 15 years or so ago and it was almost apocalyptic. I was covering the game for a newspaper and they actually led us down through the crowd, which was about 95 pct Mexico fans, to the field for interviews. I look over at one point and some dude's burning a freaking phone book. A dude in front of me got hit with a cup of beer. (We think it was beer.) And so on. I imagine a lot of people enjoy that kind of, uh, rowdiness but I look at it like Mardis Gras or a nightclub -- you'd have to pay me to go, and even then I probably wouldn't.

Mexican fans are nuts. During a Liga MX game this year they had a riot. They also get regularly punished by FIFA for homophobic chants.

[Nate505]

:wink:

I went to a match in LA a few years ago. It was a friendly between Mexico & Croatia, so it had no real significance whatsoever. Didn’t matter. The fans were going nuts, especially the Mexico fans. They didn’t like the how the game was being officiated and after a Mexican player was given a Red, they started throwing beer at the refs on the pitch and then all over the place at other fans, and it wasn’t long before fights broke out in the stadium. My friends and I (one of whom was wearing a Croatia jersey) got out of there as soon as we could with like 25 min left in the game, and had to avoid getting jump twice on our way out. It was pure chaos.

Mexican fans are the worst in North America. Homophonic scumbags. Not much different than some European hooligans.
Unfortunately soccer is not a game that you want to attend in most countries. Trash culture, full of scumbags that are just looking for trouble.

I went to a USA-Mexico match at the Cotton Bowl 15 years or so ago and it was almost apocalyptic. I was covering the game for a newspaper and they actually led us down through the crowd, which was about 95 pct Mexico fans, to the field for interviews. I look over at one point and some dude's burning a freaking phone book. A dude in front of me got hit with a cup of beer. (We think it was beer.) And so on. I imagine a lot of people enjoy that kind of, uh, rowdiness but I look at it like Mardis Gras or a nightclub -- you'd have to pay me to go, and even then I probably wouldn't.

I went to one US/Mexico game in Denver in 2002. It was just a "friendly" game that the US won, 1-0.

There was me and a couple other US fans in a sea of Mexican fans. Honestly the guys around us were cool, and we kinda joked around the whole game (they were far more the fans who were more about bitching about their own team than being jerks against the other team). That said, towards the end of the game, when it was obvious Mexico was going to lose and some ticky tack call went against Mexico, a bunch of bottles started being thrown towards our area. None came that close to hitting me, but what I found "funny" (not at the time, as I was more fearful) was that since the crowd was 90% Mexican fans in our section, all they did was hit other Mexican fans with the bottles. Which pissed off the fans they hit, who wanted to go up and fight them.

Thankfully nothing that serious happened as security was pretty good that day, and I personally wasn't threatened or was messed with when leaving Mile High, but it was enough for me to not want to go to a game like that in my 40s. I could tolerate that crap better in my 20s.

And like most things in life it's drunken idiots who usually cause the issues.

[Sedale Threatt]

Mexican fans are the worst in North America. Homophonic scumbags. Not much different than some European hooligans.
Unfortunately soccer is not a game that you want to attend in most countries. Trash culture, full of scumbags that are just looking for trouble.

I went to a USA-Mexico match at the Cotton Bowl 15 years or so ago and it was almost apocalyptic. I was covering the game for a newspaper and they actually led us down through the crowd, which was about 95 pct Mexico fans, to the field for interviews. I look over at one point and some dude's burning a freaking phone book. A dude in front of me got hit with a cup of beer. (We think it was beer.) And so on. I imagine a lot of people enjoy that kind of, uh, rowdiness but I look at it like Mardis Gras or a nightclub -- you'd have to pay me to go, and even then I probably wouldn't.

Mexican fans are nuts. During a Liga MX game this year they had a riot. They also get regularly punished by FIFA for homophobic chants.

I don't understand people who enjoy/endorse that kind of environment. I have an English friend who tells me all the time how much better it is to go to a match now that they've cleaned up the stadiums and cracked down on hooliganism. Our family was actually stationed over there during the late 1980s and some of the stuff that went on back then was just nuts. My dad wasn't a soccer fan and I was thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to convincing him to take me to an Arsenal match in London. Then there was some huge brawl at a tube station where a couple of guys got stabbed and that was that.

Of course, a lot of this stuff doesn't really have to do with the game itself. It's just an excuse to engage in some tribal brutality.

[Nate505]

So the police caused 150+ people to die. That should be the article title.

Kind of. The rioting **** had a lot to do with it as well.

[Shock Defeat]

So the police caused 150+ people to die. That should be the article title.

Kind of. The rioting **** had a lot to do with it as well.

I think it was the police's decision to use tear gas which killed people, the rioting itself did not.