OT: Atleast 127 killed after riot at football match

[jehosafats]

Truly sad. What makes it worst is this could happen anywhere, just because soccer is that popular and it plays on all the favorite jingoistic themes. Reminiscent of the races at the Hippodrome in Constantinople, another coliseum where the issues percolating between the Blues and Greens spilled over into the Nika Riots of 532 AD - 30,000 massacred.

[theforumblue]

Most people “don’t know” how big of a country Indonesia is.

Yeah, I got that. I was just expanding on that part of the post.

for some reason i just thought of it as bunch of medium sized islands. had no idea how big it was. i knew they were largely muslims but didnt realize they had the largest population of muslims in the world.

[azcatz11]

Travis Scott concert on steroids

[MAMBAEMD]

Absolutely atrocious and heartbreaking.

[JN61]

Football fan culture sadly was always extremely toxic and dangerous. Sadly here are the results.

[ROballer]

Number is 174 as of now and keeps climbing up. People dying in hospitals.

[druggas]

People taking sports way too seriously.

[Mavrelous]

People taking sports way too seriously.

I don't think this was the case in Indonesia, but many times, sports rivalry comes from sectarian/class/ethnic/religious background, Galsgow Rangers (Protestant) Vs Celtic (Irish Catholic) in Scotland, Bercelona represents the Catalan, Athletico Bilbao represents and Basque is Spain, while Real Madrid is the royal club, so in many cases, it is more serious than just sports rivalry.
Western societies are too rich, and comfy for the sectarian violence in football matches now, but lest we forget that barely 30 years ago, a fight broke in the Balkan between Serbs and Croat in a football match, and in other places in the world bloody conflicts are still very much alive.

[Synciere]

Few will care bc it’s Indonesia.

It isn’t really our purview in America so I’ll leave that alone.

I’ll send a thought/prayer up to those who left the ether. God knows we can all do better.

[Myth]

People taking sports way too seriously.

I don't think this was the case in Indonesia, but many times, sports rivalry comes from sectarian/class/ethnic/religious background, Galsgow Rangers (Protestant) Vs Celtic (Irish Catholic) in Scotland, Bercelona represents the Catalan, Athletico Bilbao represents and Basque is Spain, while Real Madrid is the royal club, so in many cases, it is more serious than just sports rivalry.
Western societies are too rich, and comfy for the sectarian violence in football matches now, but lest we forget that barely 30 years ago, a fight broke in the Balkan between Serbs and Croat in a football match, and in other places in the world bloody conflicts are still very much alive.

They rushed the field, threw objects at players and officials. That qualifies as taking a sport too seriously IMO.

[Nuntius]

People taking sports way too seriously.

I don't think this was the case in Indonesia, but many times, sports rivalry comes from sectarian/class/ethnic/religious background, Galsgow Rangers (Protestant) Vs Celtic (Irish Catholic) in Scotland, Bercelona represents the Catalan, Athletico Bilbao represents and Basque is Spain, while Real Madrid is the royal club, so in many cases, it is more serious than just sports rivalry.
Western societies are too rich, and comfy for the sectarian violence in football matches now, but lest we forget that barely 30 years ago, a fight broke in the Balkan between Serbs and Croat in a football match, and in other places in the world bloody conflicts are still very much alive.

Yep, all of this is accurate. The Dinamo-Red Star riot that you mentioned is even believed by some to have sparked the Croatian War of Independence (although, this has started to get disputed lately). Sports teams can quite often be signifiers of one's background which is also why people get so fanatical about them. They are part of their identity.

As you said, though, this doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. This tragedy seems to be a result of the police's monumentally incompetent actions.

[MrGoat]

This is one of the most devastating event and 2nd most casualties in sports history. I just found out that in 1964, same thing happen in Peru with more than 300 killed. Same sports. Maybe football fans are really passionate about the game.

www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/breaking-indonesia-fans-dead-riot-28132714.amp

Nothing like this has ever happened at an American "Football" game.

Your point? There's never been a security detail at an American football game that was stupid enough to fire tear gas into the stands, even when the field gets stormed

[iLLmatic860]

I thought it was football football but still crazy lol

[Castle Black]

Soccer fans are nuts man. By far the rowdiest fans in sports.

Was only a few months ago that all those fans were killed during a match in Mexico. The videos that surfaced of it were horrific.

[theFireBlanket]

I thought it was football football but still crazy lol

Hand&occasionallyfootball*

[Blame Rasho]

Most people “don’t know” how big of a country Indonesia is.

Yeah, I got that. I was just expanding on that part of the post.

for some reason i just thought of it as bunch of medium sized islands. had no idea how big it was. i knew they were largely muslims but didnt realize they had the largest population of muslims in the world.

Watch on YouTube

The island of Java has more people than the entire country of Russia just for some perspective.

Anyways check out vid for some fun tidbits.

Off topic but I love that YouTube channel.

[RSP83]

So, based on the article in the OP (and obviously assuming that their reporting is accurate) this is what happened:

- Fans of the home team stormed the pitch after their team lost.

- The police pushed them back into the stands, hitting some with their batons and kicking others.

- Tear gas was launched on the pitch and into the stands as the situation escalated.

- Fans struggled to find refuge and many have subsequently lost their lives after falling to the ground or being trampled on.

- Local media outlet Kompas claims the tear gas did not disperse, leading to shortness of breath and loss of consciousness.

Based on all that, this was not a situation were fans of opposing teams came to blows. This looks to be between and the fans and the police and, sadly, it seems that the police escalated that situation by throwing tear gas into the stands. Doing that is incredibly dangerous. The stands are not a flat surface. If you cannot see due to the tear gas then you can easily trip, fall and get crushed. It also causes panic and panic in such an environment can easily cause stampedes. We have seen that happen in the past in similar events in stadiums (the Karaiskakis Stadium disaster always come to mind when I read about stuff like that but that's definitely because I'm Greek and I grew up hearing about that particular tragedy).

The fact that the tear gas did not disperse could mean that they were expired. I have seen police forces use expired tear gas pretty often in my neck of the woods so it wouldn't shock me if that was the case here. This seems like an extremely sad situation that could have been avoided. I hope that the families of the victims are able to find peace. Rest in peace

I'm a local there. You describe what happened correctly. It's been on the news all day. The whole country is mourning the loss.

Just want to add a few additional details. This match was between 2 of the biggest rivalry in the local league, it's between 2 clubs (Arema and Persebaya) from the same province (East Java). We don't have that kind of rivalry equivalent in the NBA. But this is normal in soccer (usually called derby match).

Yes, the police security protocol was at fault here. But at the same time, Indonesia's national soccer association and the league organizer is one of the worst in the world. Prior to the match they've been warned by security intelligence that they should move the match to earlier time to avoid hosting the match at evening time, which according to the security intelligence they found high security concern/risk. But that warning was ignored. Another stupid thing was the league organizer somehow sold more tickets (42k) more than the stadium capacity allowed (35k). Despite they were also given permission to only sell 25k tickets based on agreement with the police to reduce risk. This was somehow ignored and the police did nothing. Yes, this country is severely corrupted.

[heezyo2o]

I love soccer but honestly Indonesia has never been on my radar as a football crazy country. I had to check their ranking and they are ranked 155 in fifa which is absurd given how big that country is. Most people know have a grasp of how big that country is.

Population theory never really works in sports otherwise countries like the US would be near the top all the time

[Blame Rasho]

I love soccer but honestly Indonesia has never been on my radar as a football crazy country. I had to check their ranking and they are ranked 155 in fifa which is absurd given how big that country is. Most people know have a grasp of how big that country is.

Population theory never really works in sports otherwise countries like the US would be near the top all the time

It more than population, it is the resources that are put into the sport. There is a reason why a small country like Uruguay is a soccer mainstay.

[Nuntius]

So, based on the article in the OP (and obviously assuming that their reporting is accurate) this is what happened:

- Fans of the home team stormed the pitch after their team lost.

- The police pushed them back into the stands, hitting some with their batons and kicking others.

- Tear gas was launched on the pitch and into the stands as the situation escalated.

- Fans struggled to find refuge and many have subsequently lost their lives after falling to the ground or being trampled on.

- Local media outlet Kompas claims the tear gas did not disperse, leading to shortness of breath and loss of consciousness.

Based on all that, this was not a situation were fans of opposing teams came to blows. This looks to be between and the fans and the police and, sadly, it seems that the police escalated that situation by throwing tear gas into the stands. Doing that is incredibly dangerous. The stands are not a flat surface. If you cannot see due to the tear gas then you can easily trip, fall and get crushed. It also causes panic and panic in such an environment can easily cause stampedes. We have seen that happen in the past in similar events in stadiums (the Karaiskakis Stadium disaster always come to mind when I read about stuff like that but that's definitely because I'm Greek and I grew up hearing about that particular tragedy).

The fact that the tear gas did not disperse could mean that they were expired. I have seen police forces use expired tear gas pretty often in my neck of the woods so it wouldn't shock me if that was the case here. This seems like an extremely sad situation that could have been avoided. I hope that the families of the victims are able to find peace. Rest in peace

I'm a local there. You describe what happened correctly. It's been on the news all day. The whole country is mourning the loss.

Just want to add a few additional details. This match was between 2 of the biggest rivalry in the local league, it's between 2 clubs (Arema and Persebaya) from the same province (East Java). We don't have that kind of rivalry equivalent in the NBA. But this is normal in soccer (usually called derby match).

Yes, the police security protocol was at fault here. But at the same time, Indonesia's national soccer association and the league organizer is one of the worst in the world. Prior to the match they've been warned by security intelligence that they should move the match to earlier time to avoid hosting the match at evening time, which according to the security intelligence they found high security concern/risk. But that warning was ignored. Another stupid thing was the league organizer somehow sold more tickets (42k) more than the stadium capacity allowed (35k). Despite they were also given permission to only sell 25k tickets based on agreement with the police to reduce risk. This was somehow ignored and the police did nothing. Yes, this country is severely corrupted.

Thank you for the reply. A local's perspective is always crucial in situations like this one. I hope that you didn't lose a loved one in this tragedy