Game 12: Phoenix Suns (5-6) @ Utah Jazz (4-7) |ESPN| In-Season Tournament| 11/17

[sunsbg]

Btw nice purple colors of this Jazz court. Raptor's black court can lead to a depression watching it for 2.5 hours.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

Big 3: 0-0
Book/KD: 3-1
Book/Beal: 0-0
Beal/KD: 1-2
KD: 2-3
Book: 0-0
Beal: 0-0

Total: 6-6

Wouldn't it be easier to just not include the ones that are 0-0, until maybe that situation happens?

Book/KD: 3-1
Beal/KD: 1-2
KD: 2-3

Total 6-6
Seems like less clutter.

Unsure if we ever see Beal by himself...

[Qwigglez]

Small sample, but the Suns are averaging 132 points the last 2 games. If the role players can continue to play their roles, and perhaps even build upon them, the Suns are going to be very dangerous once Bradley Beal comes back and the team starts to gel.

[AtheJ415]

And all of that after a win lol...

We played a very good game on the road. It was a good win.

The Jazz are a solid team and they play better without Kessler, he is a a good C but too raw yet.

The Jazz are a team we overmatch and are not particularly good offensively. They should not be scoring 130+ on us, but we have a number of role players who are being allowed to play lazy basketball and make selfish decisions and for me, as a fan who expects this team to contend for a title, it is disgusting basketball to watch. In the words of KD, "no defense was played tonight". How does that happen for a team that is supposedly hungry to win a title?

I never want to see Eric Gordon on the defensive end again. It sets a horrendous example for the rest of the team. How he is getting more minutes than Bates Diop and every other role player despite being allowed to tank and barely move on that end I will never know.

I want the guys on this team to play hard all the time and make good decisions consistently. It's a veteran group and the role players have a very easy job because Book and KD do much of the work for them. Vogel remains a big problem imo.

Eric Gordon gives us huge space on offense, the guy is a big weapon as a 3p shooter from distance.

He adds another ball handler to our starting group and he can carry us offensively for a few minutes on every game.

Defensively he is OK. Not a lockdown defender or anything like that and I agree that he is not a fast defender anymore and some great offensive players (Clarkson) can get by him, but you are underrating him IMO.

And we need to remember that he is on a minimum deal.

I have never complained about his offense, though his decision to drive in crunch time and pump fake 3 times is a weird one, but you are missing the point. His EFFORT LEVEL on the defensive end is attrocious. He does not focus or even try, and the few times he does he ends up making poor decisions leaving open shooters. You cannot have a team buy in defensively if you have a guy who doesn't try on that end getting 30+ minutes a game. This is unusual of a Vogel defense. I would not mind Gordon at all if the effort and focus was there but he just sucked on that end. What I find inexcusable is the EFFORT LEVEL.

If you think he has been okay on that end, please watch him closely. You will see him bail on defensive transition, lose guys off ball constantly, and help unnecessarily leaving guys open a large number of times a game. He has been the laziest defender I have seen not named Harden.

[Calvin Klein]

Yeah, Eric Gordon cannot stay in front of anybody. They just blow by him time and time again.

It was a nice game and Durant was amazing. Many positives finally. But they need to start defending. They won't win **** without being above average defensively.

[Saberestar]

The Jazz are a team we overmatch and are not particularly good offensively. They should not be scoring 130+ on us, but we have a number of role players who are being allowed to play lazy basketball and make selfish decisions and for me, as a fan who expects this team to contend for a title, it is disgusting basketball to watch. In the words of KD, "no defense was played tonight". How does that happen for a team that is supposedly hungry to win a title?

I never want to see Eric Gordon on the defensive end again. It sets a horrendous example for the rest of the team. How he is getting more minutes than Bates Diop and every other role player despite being allowed to tank and barely move on that end I will never know.

I want the guys on this team to play hard all the time and make good decisions consistently. It's a veteran group and the role players have a very easy job because Book and KD do much of the work for them. Vogel remains a big problem imo.

Eric Gordon gives us huge space on offense, the guy is a big weapon as a 3p shooter from distance.

He adds another ball handler to our starting group and he can carry us offensively for a few minutes on every game.

Defensively he is OK. Not a lockdown defender or anything like that and I agree that he is not a fast defender anymore and some great offensive players (Clarkson) can get by him, but you are underrating him IMO.

And we need to remember that he is on a minimum deal.

I have never complained about his offense, though his decision to drive in crunch time and pump fake 3 times is a weird one, but you are missing the point. His EFFORT LEVEL on the defensive end is attrocious. He does not focus or even try, and the few times he does he ends up making poor decisions leaving open shooters. You cannot have a team buy in defensively if you have a guy who doesn't try on that end getting 30+ minutes a game. This is unusual of a Vogel defense. I would not mind Gordon at all if the effort and focus was there but he just sucked on that end. What I find inexcusable is the EFFORT LEVEL.

If you think he has been okay on that end, please watch him closely. You will see him bail on defensive transition, lose guys off ball constantly, and help unnecessarily leaving guys open a large number of times a game. He has been the laziest defender I have seen not named Harden.

Gordon has never been a lazy defender, he is just too heavy to move his feet quick enough to cover his man after some rotations on defense.

I watch him closely and he is OK. Probably not a positive defender but no way he is atrocious on defense. If that was the case he would be hunted badly by opposing teams and that's not happening.

In the last game against the Wolves he did a nice job against bigs like Towns after switching, KAT couldn't take advantage of that switch on numerous times. That's when his weight is a plus for us on defense.

[Frank Lee]

Easy to be encouraged and see the good. But the weaknesses are being slowly exposed. Yall forget how high the bar has been set. And so far this team is playing limbo limbo. We should be concerned of the shortcomings ie shakey D, nagging injuries, poor shooting from a few, 4th q woes, questionable coaching…etc.

The Big 2 1/2 cant cover up everything. We need a few players to step into their roles and perform, may be even exceed expectations. As it is now, Diop, Ewbanks, and Allen look to be the best additions…. The rest??? I dont know. Looks like one dimensional dudes in Goodwin, Okogie, Gordan, and Nurk. Havent seen much of the others.

One thing is certain though, we have handcuffed ourselves to this roster with very little avenues to make any mid season changes. It better work it self out else the MadMatter never gets us out of Wonderland

[sasquatchBob]

I watched Celtics vs Raptors before watching this game and I can confidently say that currently Suns are far from Boston's level. Celtics are very cohesive. This team looks messy. Only thing I know is that we try to outscore the opponent.

Defense is not there at all. I actually like Nurkic as a player. He plays physical and smart. Kind of like a better Saric version. But he's so so slow. I'm not even sure he should start over Eubanks. Eubanks can match Bookers energy and be a solid defender.

Speaking of Booker. He really looks like he CAN run the PG position. CP3 has thought him poise. What an awesome player Booker is! I think he will be one of MVP candidates this year.

[Biff]

Turnover situation has been vastly improved last 2 games. Finally strung 2 decent games together. We looked good offensively but atrocious defensively. A win is a win but we should beat the Jazz by more than 3 (and on a KD buzzer beater) when KD goes for 38/9/9 on 22 shots and Book gets 24 and 15. We still don't look anything like a contender but at least we aren't playing like a sloppy high school team.

[darealjuice]

We're less than a month into the season with a new coach, a completely new roster, and 2 of our 3 star players being injured coming into the season. It shouldn't be surprising that we've been out of sync on both ends so far. We're definitely not going to be playing our best basketball in the first quarter of the season. We just need to get Beal back on the court as soon as possible so we're starting to peak in April.

Offense looks much better with Booker running the point. Defense is never going to be great, but it'll be more cohesive as the season goes on and should end up being average. Our depth is clearly better than last season. The competition is as tough as ever this year, but there's plenty of reason to stay optimistic despite not starting as some expected.

[pj0tr]

Yeah, Eric Gordon cannot stay in front of anybody. They just blow by him time and time again.

It was a nice game and Durant was amazing. Many positives finally. But they need to start defending. They won't win **** without being above average defensively.

Gordon doesn't have the foot speed to keep up with guards, but he is smart, and he definitely can time stripping the ball from guards when they drive.

Hes also got lower-body strength to defend decently if guards try to post him up.

He has limitations, and thats OKAY.

[SkyBill40]

Win or lose, some posters bring the same negative Nancy energy. Credits where credits due for the consistency, I'll give them that.

In a season where we're 6-6 when we expect to be 10-2, I'm taking each win as a positive

It's a slow burn. You've been around long enough to know as much.

Sent from my [Samsung Z4 Fold] using RealGM mobile app

[sunsbum]

Too much expectations from suns fans so far. As Juice said it’s a brand new team. Vogel is still figuring out rotations, defense isn’t there yet, roleplayers have to figure how to play along side 2 superstars. I’ve definitely seen some improvement. Can’t expect it overnight and once we get going we may take another step back when Beal gets healthy and integrates himself.

Another thing, I know Book is severely underrated around the league and on other boards but damn this guy just keeps getting better. No reason a single suns fan should ever have anything bad to say about him…

[enigmatics]

Turnover situation has been vastly improved last 2 games. Finally strung 2 decent games together. We looked good offensively but atrocious defensively. A win is a win but we should beat the Jazz by more than 3 (and on a KD buzzer beater) when KD goes for 38/9/9 on 22 shots and Book gets 24 and 15. We still don't look anything like a contender but at least we aren't playing like a sloppy high school team.

On it's face YES they strung together consecutive games with low turnovers.

When you dig further you realize the Wolves were on a B2B after a highly emotionally charged game vs. the Dubs and arrived at 4am on the day of the game. Utah is Utah - the 22nd rated defense in the association AND the Suns turned it over quite a bit in 4th Q crunch time barely eeking out a "W" in the process.

Booker no doubt helps course correct what we all watched before he came back again, but PG is not his natural position and it's gonna take time.

The more the season rolls on though the more I change my tune i.e. not having an adequate backup floor general was a big mistake, especially with this Beal back thing. Something stinks to high hell about that trade.

[enigmatics]

Too much expectations from suns fans so far. As Juice said it’s a brand new team. Vogel is still figuring out rotations, defense isn’t there yet, roleplayers have to figure how to play along side 2 superstars. I’ve definitely seen some improvement. Can’t expect it overnight and once we get going we may take another step back when Beal gets healthy and integrates himself.

Another thing, I know Book is severely underrated around the league and on other boards but damn this guy just keeps getting better. No reason a single suns fan should ever have anything bad to say about him…

The issue I think for the pessimists and perhaps even some cautiously optimistic fans - they sold this team as championship material.

The moment they scrapped together a Big 3 they immediately were gonna be held accountable. They didn't help themselves that they clearly acquired damaged goods in Beal, especially for a team that is extremely top heavy that had never played together.

There's a realization/realignment of expectations happening that is uncomfortable for a lot of people based on the above. I myself have gone from "they need time" to "they need time, but the warts they do have are obvious."

[WeekapaugGroove]

Win or lose, some posters bring the same negative Nancy energy. Credits where credits due for the consistency, I'll give them that.

In a season where we're 6-6 when we expect to be 10-2, I'm taking each win as a positive

This board isn't a good gauge of the general suns fan vibes. There is a much higher percentage of negative Nancy's and pants pissing chicken littles that post here than you'll run into in real life. Most suns fans I know are pretty excited about this group and the franchise.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[Saberestar]

BTW, I want to comment a couple of positive things from this game.

We won with KD and Book playing only 33 and 32 minutes. That was encouraging and showed our depth.

And props to Vogel because he made a nice adjustment on the rotation in the second half.

He sat out Okogie after a couple of bad mistakes and gave an opportunity to Little who played very well in those minutes. 5 points and some really good defense.

[dremill24]

When we win, yeah.

I mean thats a little backwards when you consider that the playing defense (or not) part comes before (and influences) the win/loss result...

Suns played defense better than the Jazz by 3 points tonight.

I get it..."I dont have to outrun the psycho killer, I just have to outrun the other person he's chasing." The issue is a title contender needs to be able to outrun even the fast characters he's chasing, not just the white lady who trips and falls.

[MrMiyagi]

Spoiler:

Big 3: 0-0
Book/KD: 3-1
Book/Beal: 0-0
Beal/KD: 1-2
KD: 2-3
Book: 0-0
Beal: 0-0

Total: 6-6

Wouldn't it be easier to just not include the ones that are 0-0, until maybe that situation happens?

Book/KD: 3-1
Beal/KD: 1-2
KD: 2-3

Total 6-6
Seems like less clutter.

Unsure if we ever see Beal by himself...

Do what you want, man.

[Hitachi77]

I watched Celtics vs Raptors before watching this game and I can confidently say that currently Suns are far from Boston's level. Celtics are very cohesive. This team looks messy. Only thing I know is that we try to outscore the opponent.

Defense is not there at all. I actually like Nurkic as a player. He plays physical and smart. Kind of like a better Saric version. But he's so so slow. I'm not even sure he should start over Eubanks. Eubanks can match Bookers energy and be a solid defender.

Speaking of Booker. He really looks like he CAN run the PG position. CP3 has thought him poise. What an awesome player Booker is! I think he will be one of MVP candidates this year.

I have no idea why people think Boston is some unstoppable force. They came out of the gate hot last year too and look what happened. Look at Milwaukee last year. Look at us two years ago. All 3 teams not only lost in the playoffs, but got completely embarrassed. What did the Celtics barely beating the Raptors show you to make you think this year will be different?