Tweet from a month ago but it definitely makes some sense for both teams. Dolan will definitely want KD and Leon Rose has some KD connections as well iirc.
For those who can't see the entire tweet:
Kevin Durant just revealed that his agent and family wanted him to become a Knick more than anything. But maybe there’s a bigger story brewing under the surface.
Imagine you’re Phoenix. You traded every pick you had through 2031. KD isn’t getting younger. If you suffer a 1st or 2nd round exit- do you reconsider your Big 3?
If you decide to move on, your best move is trading KD to replenish your draft capital. And funny enough, the Knicks have 8 tradeable 1st round picks and are looking for a star.
The Suns would get their future back without rebuilding. The Knicks would get their star. And KD would have a chance to change his legacy by bringing a championship to the Mecca of basketball.
And before you call this crazy, just remember we’ve seen even crazier things in the NBA…
I don't think we would do it.
I would definitely require we get Miles McBride back. And we'd have to take Randle back for salary purposes. Then probably DiVincenZo or Hart.
So those 3 guys and a load of picks. I'd probably do it. We get a young PG, another good depth guard, and Randle (who I'm not real high on, but he's a solid player).
But we have picks and a young PG and maybe could deal Randle if he doesn't work well.
The Knicks, with Brunson, OG and KD, now that's a perfect combo of 3 really good players.
To me, that sounds FAR FAR more likely than KD trading to OKC. The Knicks are more desperate, without as much star power or as bright of future...so they could go in to win now and still have Brunson and OG for the future.
bwgood77 wrote: Pelicans are 8-2 in their last 10 and are 2 or 2.5 games ahead of the other 3. I doubt they fall. One team would have to win 3 more games than them. Of course it's possible. i think them and the Clippers are probably going to face each other in the first round. Which is ok. I'd prefer not to face the Clippers with them having HCA if they are healthy. They will be a different beast in the playoffs when Kawhi gets better and Lue is a great playoff coach.
Ingram is out, that changes everything for them.
We have two games against them. And looking their schedule for the next few games they play against Thunder, Bucks and Celtics.
I didn't know that he was out, but they just beat Miami 111-88 on the road without him. You may underestimate how good Trey Murphy and Larry Nance Jr are. They also have Zion and CJ McCollum who can step up the scoring.
Ingram isn't having his best season. He is actually pretty far down on their list of efficient scorers.
TS% Nance 67% Herbert Jones 65% JV 63% Zion 62% Trey Murphy 61% McCollum 59% Ingram 58%
3pt% Herbert Jones 43% Nance 42% McCollum 41.5% Murphy 38% Zion 35.7% Ingram 35.6% JV 34.3%
Naji Marshall is playing pretty well too.
You already know how percentages work...teams usually put their attention on All-Star players like Ingram and role players get easier and wide open shots so their percentages are very good...but without that big time player everyone has worse percentages and has a tough time creating shots.
They are gonna miss Ingram for sure. And yeah, they won yesterday to the Heat but they aren't as good as the Celtics, Bucks, Thunder or a healthy Suns. I expect them to struggle in the next couple of weeks.
I doubt we will get **** for a 36 year old KD. Like one young certified role player and a couple of picks (like two. 3 if we're lucky) but there is actually is nothing particularly wrong with that. I guess I can see Randle + filler and a pick (or 2 again if we're lucky) but certainly no boatload.
If our scenario is having no picks, and being old and mediocre vs having no picks, and being young and mediocre then yeah we can go ahead and ship KD out.
But I have a feeling we're running this ship onto dry land and we'll not be able to get anything for KD when he's 37/38.
No way we give up so much in future picks just to sell him for nothing. The Knicks have nothing to give as far as players. Randle is negative, Bogdonovic is old, Robinson is off limits, Anunoby will opt out. Picks and who?
sunskerr wrote:I doubt we will get **** for a 36 year old KD. Like one young certified role player and a couple of picks (like two. 3 if we're lucky) but there is actually is nothing particularly wrong with that. I guess I can see Randle + filler and a pick (or 2 again if we're lucky) but certainly no boatload.
If our scenario is having no picks, and being old and mediocre vs having no picks, and being young and mediocre then yeah we can go ahead and ship KD out.
But I have a feeling we're running this ship onto dry land and we'll not be able to get anything for KD when he's 37/38.
You nailed it! We ain’t getting much for KD as we will continue to run a similar team next season. Once KD begins to decline a bit by 25/26 season not many teams will want him.
My magic ball sees a trio of Booker, Dejonte Murray & Paul George on same team 2-3 years from now. I can’t tell though if the trio will play on the Suns or elsewhere, but the good news is Frank Vogel will still be out of a coaching job.
Saberestar wrote:Ingram is out, that changes everything for them.
We have two games against them. And looking their schedule for the next few games they play against Thunder, Bucks and Celtics.
I didn't know that he was out, but they just beat Miami 111-88 on the road without him. You may underestimate how good Trey Murphy and Larry Nance Jr are. They also have Zion and CJ McCollum who can step up the scoring.
Ingram isn't having his best season. He is actually pretty far down on their list of efficient scorers.
TS% Nance 67% Herbert Jones 65% JV 63% Zion 62% Trey Murphy 61% McCollum 59% Ingram 58%
3pt% Herbert Jones 43% Nance 42% McCollum 41.5% Murphy 38% Zion 35.7% Ingram 35.6% JV 34.3%
Naji Marshall is playing pretty well too.
You already know how percentages work...teams usually put their attention on All-Star players like Ingram and role players get easier and wide open shots so their percentages are very good...but without that big time player everyone has worse percentages and has a tough time creating shots.
They are gonna miss Ingram for sure. And yeah, they won yesterday to the Heat but they aren't as good as the Celtics, Bucks, Thunder or a healthy Suns. I expect them to struggle in the next couple of weeks.
They can't really double him with Zion, McCollum and great 3 pt shooters. He's not that good. The real star players, it doesn't matter. Kawhi, 57% from 2, 42.4% from 3, George, 53% from 2, 40.3% from 3, KD 56.4% from 2, 41.3% from 3, Luka never has great %s, but still 57.4% from 2 and 37.6% from 3. Kyrie 54% from 2, 40.3% from 3, Brunson, 54% and 40%. The list goes on....I mean Zion and CJ are both better shooters and are not guys defense take lightly. If anything Zion would probably get doubled more.
Sure, they will miss Ingram but they still have solid depth and can plug in Trey Murphy OR Larry Nance and be just about as good....with different strengths. They crushed Miami on the road by 23 without Ingram.
It's almost sure we see same starting lineup next season. Big changes will come in '25 offseason if results stay the same. What I want to see is draft a good player somewhat ready to contribute, preferably a PG. Hit on undrafted player like Camara, a hard working defensive type wing. GoK can give you 5-6 names perfect for this role. If they can keep Bol he'll be in the rotation from the start of next season. This team needs young and hungry players that will play with effort. A new coach may also make a huge difference and replacing the coach is the easiest move for Ishbea. Just not sure there are much better options than Vogel right now.
sunskerr wrote:I doubt we will get **** for a 36 year old KD. Like one young certified role player and a couple of picks (like two. 3 if we're lucky) but there is actually is nothing particularly wrong with that. I guess I can see Randle + filler and a pick (or 2 again if we're lucky) but certainly no boatload.
If our scenario is having no picks, and being old and mediocre vs having no picks, and being young and mediocre then yeah we can go ahead and ship KD out.
But I have a feeling we're running this ship onto dry land and we'll not be able to get anything for KD when he's 37/38.
I agree for the most part, but for the Knicks, with a boatload of picks, and the right players, and a pretty desperate team to be a finals contender, and on the cusp of being really good...it makes some sense, especially since they could trade 4 picks and still have 4 first rounders...or trade 3. Would you do 3 picks, McBride, Randle and DiVincenZo or Hart?
Now most of the picks they have are fairly heavily protected or from really good teams, but they have all their own, plus these. I could see them trading the Detroit or Wash ones because they are so heavily protected, and 2 of their own thinking with Brunson, OG and KD, they should be ok. So one of those coming to them, and their 24 and 26 picks. or 25 and 27 when we don't have picks. I would go for Dallas' pick which won't be bad, and then probably their 25 and 27 picks. That gives us first rounders through 28...and 2 this year...only missing our 29 pick.
Of course we'd probably be a little worse, but would have a PG, a good passing, rebounding PF, more depth, and Beal could step up and get his normal shots and be a solid 2nd option (or Randle). McBride is getting better....he doesn't get many assists, but he plays with Brunson, but he does shoot 41% from 3 this year.
Spoiler:
2024 first round draft pick from Dallas Dallas' 1st round pick to New York protected for selections 1-10 in 2024 and 1-10 in 2025; if Dallas has not conveyed a 1st round pick to New York by 2025, then Dallas will instead convey its 2025 2nd round pick to New York [Dallas-New York, 1/31/2019]
2024 first round draft pick from Detroit Detroit's 1st round pick to New York protected for selections 1-18 in 2024, 1-13 in 2025, 1-11 in 2026 and 1-9 in 2027; if Detroit has not conveyed a 1st round pick to New York by 2027, then Detroit will instead convey its 2027 2nd round pick to New York (via Houston to Oklahoma City) [Detroit-Houston, 11/24/2020; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/30/2021; New York-Oklahoma City, 6/23/2022]
2024 first round draft pick from Washington Washington's 1st round pick to New York protected for selections 1-12 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026; if Washington has not conveyed a 1st round pick to New York by 2026, then Washington will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round pick to New York (via Houston to Oklahoma City) [Houston-Washington, 12/2/2020; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/30/2021; New York-Oklahoma City, 6/23/2022]
2024 second round draft pick from Utah or Cleveland (more favorable) New York will receive the more favorable of Utah's 2024 2nd round pick and Cleveland's 2024 2nd round pick; L.A. Clippers will receive the more favorable of (i) Indiana's 2024 second round pick and (ii) the less favorable of the Cleveland pick and the Utah pick and Indiana will receive the less favorable of (i) and (ii); L.A. Clippers may convey the pick it receives to Indiana and instead receive Toronto if less favorable (see L.A. Clippers Incoming); Indiana may convey the pick it receives to Golden State or Toronto (see Indiana Outgoing) (via Cleveland to Indiana to Milwaukee to Memphis to L.A. Clippers to Philadelphia to Indiana; via Utah's right to swap for Cleveland; via Toronto to Memphis to L.A. Clippers) [Cleveland-Sacramento-Utah, 2/8/2018; New York-Utah, 11/22/2020; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021; Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/30/2021; Memphis-Milwaukee, 8/7/2021; Houston-L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/9/2023]
2024 second round draft pick from Miami Miami's 2024 2nd round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 31-50 and 56-59 or to New York protected for selections 31-55 (Miami's obligation(s) to Atlanta and / or New York will thereafter be extinguished) (via Cleveland to Detroit to Philadelphia to New York) [Cleveland-Miami, 2/8/2018; Atlanta-Miami, 6/19/2019; Cleveland-Detroit, 6/26/2019; Detroit-Philadelphia, 7/7/2019; New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021]
2025 first round draft pick from Milwaukee Milwaukee's 2025 1st round pick to New Orleans protected for selections 5-30 or to New York protected for selections 1-4 (Milwaukee's obligation to New Orleans or New York will thereafter be extinguished) (via New Orleans to Portland to Detroit to New York) [Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020; New Orleans-Portland, 2/8/2022; Detroit-Portland, 7/6/2022; Detroit-New York, 7/6/2022]
Fo-Real wrote:No way we give up so much in future picks just to sell him for nothing. The Knicks have nothing to give as far as players. Randle is negative, Bogdonovic is old, Robinson is off limits, Anunoby will opt out. Picks and who?
Miles McBride...pretty good young PG, Randle (yes not a huge fan but he can rebound, pass, score, etc), and DiVincenzo, who shoots 40% from 3 and has a 2-1 ast/to ratio and plays tough..hard defense...he was on the championship team with Bridges and Brunson. He actually was the best player in the NCAA finals.
sunsbg wrote:It's almost sure we see same starting lineup next season. Big changes will come in '25 offseason if results stay the same. What I want to see is draft a good player somewhat ready to contribute, preferably a PG. Hit on undrafted player like Camara, a hard working defensive type wing. GoK can give you 5-6 names perfect for this role. If they can keep Bol he'll be in the rotation from the start of next season. This team needs young and hungry players that will play with effort. A new coach may also make a huge difference and replacing the coach is the easiest move for Ishbea. Just not sure there are much better options than Vogel right now.
If we do go PG, I'd look at this guy, 31 on tankathon's big board and 29 on espn's. He's probably lower due to being a senior (which also means he's more ready)..but he's probably the best assist guy in college and shoots 40% from 3 on a good division 1 team.
From Givony on ESPN
Kolek is one of the best stories in the NCAA tournament. An unheralded transfer from George Mason who emerged as the best point guard in college basketball, he led Marquette to a Big East tournament championship and earned conference player of the year honors and All-American status. Kolek doesn't look the part at first glance with a stumpy frame, limited length, average explosiveness and a funky lefty shooting stroke. However, he is a tremendous ball handler who picks apart defenses, gets anywhere on the floor, finishes with toughness at the rim, makes every pass you'd hope for out of pick-and-rolls and is a far better defender than you'd expect. Kolek, who will turn 22 later this month, needs to decide whether to try to strike while the iron is hot or return to Marquette and attempt to win national player of the year honors and vie for a national championship for a team that should return most of its players.
sunsbg wrote:It's almost sure we see same starting lineup next season. Big changes will come in '25 offseason if results stay the same. What I want to see is draft a good player somewhat ready to contribute, preferably a PG. Hit on undrafted player like Camara, a hard working defensive type wing. GoK can give you 5-6 names perfect for this role. If they can keep Bol he'll be in the rotation from the start of next season. This team needs young and hungry players that will play with effort. A new coach may also make a huge difference and replacing the coach is the easiest move for Ishbea. Just not sure there are much better options than Vogel right now.
If we do go PG, I'd look at this guy, 31 on tankathon's big board and 29 on espn's. He's probably lower due to being a senior (which also means he's more ready)..but he's probably the best assist guy in college and shoots 40% from 3 on a good division 1 team.
From Givony on ESPN
Kolek is one of the best stories in the NCAA tournament. An unheralded transfer from George Mason who emerged as the best point guard in college basketball, he led Marquette to a Big East tournament championship and earned conference player of the year honors and All-American status. Kolek doesn't look the part at first glance with a stumpy frame, limited length, average explosiveness and a funky lefty shooting stroke. However, he is a tremendous ball handler who picks apart defenses, gets anywhere on the floor, finishes with toughness at the rim, makes every pass you'd hope for out of pick-and-rolls and is a far better defender than you'd expect. Kolek, who will turn 22 later this month, needs to decide whether to try to strike while the iron is hot or return to Marquette and attempt to win national player of the year honors and vie for a national championship for a team that should return most of its players.
RedIndian who has a good breakdown on prospects wrote he wouldn't draft him. GoK had him at around 40 and proposed getting creative and picking another player too. Maybe he's a bad athlete like the guy Jones picked at 20 ish pick who was sent to OKC or that other PG Suns picked at 13 years ago. Forgot their names.
sunsbg wrote:It's almost sure we see same starting lineup next season. Big changes will come in '25 offseason if results stay the same. What I want to see is draft a good player somewhat ready to contribute, preferably a PG. Hit on undrafted player like Camara, a hard working defensive type wing. GoK can give you 5-6 names perfect for this role. If they can keep Bol he'll be in the rotation from the start of next season. This team needs young and hungry players that will play with effort. A new coach may also make a huge difference and replacing the coach is the easiest move for Ishbea. Just not sure there are much better options than Vogel right now.
If we do go PG, I'd look at this guy, 31 on tankathon's big board and 29 on espn's. He's probably lower due to being a senior (which also means he's more ready)..but he's probably the best assist guy in college and shoots 40% from 3 on a good division 1 team.
From Givony on ESPN
Kolek is one of the best stories in the NCAA tournament. An unheralded transfer from George Mason who emerged as the best point guard in college basketball, he led Marquette to a Big East tournament championship and earned conference player of the year honors and All-American status. Kolek doesn't look the part at first glance with a stumpy frame, limited length, average explosiveness and a funky lefty shooting stroke. However, he is a tremendous ball handler who picks apart defenses, gets anywhere on the floor, finishes with toughness at the rim, makes every pass you'd hope for out of pick-and-rolls and is a far better defender than you'd expect. Kolek, who will turn 22 later this month, needs to decide whether to try to strike while the iron is hot or return to Marquette and attempt to win national player of the year honors and vie for a national championship for a team that should return most of its players.
RedIndian who has a good breakdown on prospects wrote he wouldn't draft him. GoK had him at around 40 and proposed getting creative and picking another player too. Maybe he's a bad athlete like the guy Jones picked at 20 ish pick who was sent to OKC or that other PG Suns picked at 13 years ago. Forgot their names.
Kolek had 18 pts, 11 assists, 6 rebounds and 2 steals in their first round game. You don't often see guys getting 11 assists in college.
They play Colorado early tomorrow on CBS...like 9:30 am Phx time.
sunsbg wrote:Watched a highlights video and there were Goran Dragic comparisons in comments section. All points to him being next Suns great PG. Lol.
I don't watch college basketball so had never heard of the guy until 2 days ago when I went to tankathon and looked at all the PG's available. Took me 2 minutes to come up with the Dragic comparison without reading any of the comments or knowing anything about him.
Son of Ra wrote:It's just really ironic and unfortunate that just when it seemed like after all these years Sarver had finally learned not to meddle and be hands off we get someone at the very beginning of this development arc again...
Did he though?
Sarver's biggest issue (aside from the off court stuff) was that he was cheap. He bought the team as it was on the up and up then slowly started to dismantle indirectly because he didn't want to pay luxury tax. Then from the early 2010's to the Bubble season, the team was bottom 5 in salary every year and because of that, he was getting a split of the luxury tax payments from the NBA. IIRC that Bubble off season was when we sold our G-league team. Someone can correct me as well but we also didn't even have a scouting department. Even in the year we won 64 games, we were basically middle of the pack in salary.
Last season was the first season we were in line to pay a luxury tax bill, and I don't believe he was on the hook for it because he sold the team before the end of the season when the bill was due. THe guy almost completely stripped this team down so he could run a cheap operation for essentially a decade prior to seeing that sweet playoff revenue over the last couple of years. Now he may have continued to pay LT had he not been booted from the NBA but we don't know that nor the kind of concessions we may have had to make to reduce the LT payments.
We have 2 decades of history and half a season of being a high LT team doesn't convince me he's changed his ways
That's fair enough and a way to see it But I still think he was ready to embrace the hands off approach and has come a long way from selling picks for cash and squeezing the franchise to where he was in the end. Granted Ishbia isn't milking the cow but he's still making all the standard, cliché, ego driven mistakes.
bwgood77 wrote: Mavs have the easiest schedule of the 3 teams in 6-8. How do you see them finishing? The thing is, the games against the KIngs. I don't know what's better. If the Kings win both that might give us a slim chance of getting up to 6th, but if the Mavs win both, we will almost certainly finish ahead of the Kings, but not the Mavs.
their schedule looks easy record-wise, but it doesn't account for how motivated/desperate the Warriors and Rockets will be to claw themselves out-of or into the play-in. Rockets are the hottest team in the league right now. Still an easier time than us, but don't be surprised if the Mavs get challenged in these games.
I agree they are both desperate, so they might be tough. Houston hasn't played anyone really tough on their streak (or maybe one team) and Sengun is out for the season...at some point they may lose a couple and be almost mathematically out. I don't' think Luka and Kyrie will ease up unless they get injured. I don't really think the Warriors are very good, which is weird given they won the title with pretty much the exact same team 2 years ago.
I am interested to see how crazy Jalen Green gets to end the season. He is on a ridiculous roll right now.
sunsbg wrote:It's almost sure we see same starting lineup next season. Big changes will come in '25 offseason if results stay the same. What I want to see is draft a good player somewhat ready to contribute, preferably a PG. Hit on undrafted player like Camara, a hard working defensive type wing. GoK can give you 5-6 names perfect for this role. If they can keep Bol he'll be in the rotation from the start of next season. This team needs young and hungry players that will play with effort. A new coach may also make a huge difference and replacing the coach is the easiest move for Ishbea. Just not sure there are much better options than Vogel right now.
If we do go PG, I'd look at this guy, 31 on tankathon's big board and 29 on espn's. He's probably lower due to being a senior (which also means he's more ready)..but he's probably the best assist guy in college and shoots 40% from 3 on a good division 1 team.
From Givony on ESPN
Kolek is one of the best stories in the NCAA tournament. An unheralded transfer from George Mason who emerged as the best point guard in college basketball, he led Marquette to a Big East tournament championship and earned conference player of the year honors and All-American status. Kolek doesn't look the part at first glance with a stumpy frame, limited length, average explosiveness and a funky lefty shooting stroke. However, he is a tremendous ball handler who picks apart defenses, gets anywhere on the floor, finishes with toughness at the rim, makes every pass you'd hope for out of pick-and-rolls and is a far better defender than you'd expect. Kolek, who will turn 22 later this month, needs to decide whether to try to strike while the iron is hot or return to Marquette and attempt to win national player of the year honors and vie for a national championship for a team that should return most of its players.
RedIndian who has a good breakdown on prospects wrote he wouldn't draft him. GoK had him at around 40 and proposed getting creative and picking another player too. Maybe he's a bad athlete like the guy Jones picked at 20 ish pick who was sent to OKC or that other PG Suns picked at 13 years ago. Forgot their names.
Yep! first with Tyler Ennis in 2014 at #18, Then in 2019 wherein we traded our Mil 1st to Boston for Ty Jerome at #24, And soon Tyler Kolek, because the other to guards named Tyler clearly worked out so well for us.... I guess the 3rd times the charm though perhaps! And in fairness, Kolek is surely a much better passer than the previous two??
I guess that I wouldn't really mind him as long as it's in a trade down scenario wherein we'd get an additional pick and maybe another asset back in the deal. But I WOULD NOT solely burn a 1st on him for a backup guard role when we have more critical defensive and frontcourt needs. Because there'll be numerous equitable good playmaking guard options still available post 60 of this draft to consider as well. And I say that confidently even as a fan of Koleks' skillset/abilities. Some of these very guard options are already mentioned from my lists on the draft thread with more to come still. For instance, Just three names right off the top of my head are: - Zyon Pullin https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/zyon-pullin-1.html. - Ta'lon Cooper https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/talon-cooper-1.html. - Juan Nunez https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/juan-nunez-1.html (although clearly not as great of a shooter).
Isaiah Stevens (with almost a 7 to 2 asst- turnover ratio).
And my personal favorite!!! The point guard version of Grayson Allen, Almost already in the 50/40/90 club (only .3% on FG away from it) as a guard: Cam Spencer https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cam-spencer-1.html. and he's almost identical in attributes/skillset to Reed Sheppard (Kentucky) who just happens to be a top 5 pick in this draft. And that's just a few alternatives off the top of my head...lol. So we definitely have options throughout. Cam Spencer ( with almost a 4 - 1 assist - turnover ratio). https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/darius-brownii-1.html,
