2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title

[Djedefre]

We all know Booker is not Jokic. But neither is any other player in this league. The fact that Armani is not a generational, transcendental talent can not be an excuse for p** poor job our FO and/or new owner did. He's certainly to blame for a few disappearing acts in key PO games, but he was overall more than solid for what is the standard for a max guy these days. Silly contracts are being thrown around the league for years. That's the state of the game.

If we paid attention to the draft, maybe we would've had at least a promise of that kind of a player. If we targeted better, smarter trade options, maybe we would've had a much deeper roster. Maybe a guy like Siakam would let us retain at least Cam and a pick here or there.

Players with Booker's traits are not leading their teams to championships by themselves, that's like common knowledge for ages already. Basketball has changed. I could never picture Kobe bringing the rings to LA in today's league. Yet, what did we do to alleviate that? You bring another iso scorer, on the downside of his career on top of that. And then hire a guy like Vogel to make things right. How could anyone sane and even remotely invested in this sport think that'd pay dividends is just beyond me.

I'm open to trading literally everyone, Booker included, but if the trade and FA ideas are going to be idiotic like the ones we've seen since Ishbia took over, we're going to be even worse in the long run. With current state of our operatives and executives, we'll trade him and get 2 lesser players and a few picks we're going to waste anyway - turn a tier2 superstar into few average Joe's and youngsters who are most likely going to be out of the league in 5 years. So, from bad to worse.

[garrick]

Going back 3 yars ago and looking at what happened after.
Denever lost in disappointing fashion in the second round 0-4 to the Suns.
At that time Jokic's legacy/greatness was questioned.
Entering his prime - will he be another "Lillard in Portland"-esque situatin.
They did not panic, but the critics were harsh.
They built up o what they had. They could easily trade away Murray, when his stock was low.
Gordon too and their role players were questioned.
But they kept their core.

The suns did the opposite.
I would rather had something to built on with draft picks, bridges, ayton, cam johnson than rather vet min contracts all over, no cap space, no picks left and a crazy wner who thinks there are short cuts for success.

I think a lot of us were just fine with that too. But we got a new owner and he wanted to make a splashy entrance. I think James Jones, as criticized as he is, did a pretty good job of trying to build the team organically up until Ishbia. In fact, I think Jones maybe played it too safe in many circumstances, but he wanted to minimize risk and go for something more consistent.

Unfortunately as fans, we will have to watch Ishbia grow into his role as an owner of a NBA team and the painful lessons he will have to endure. I think if the Suns stood pat, we could have still probably traded CP3 for Beal, and we'd have a well-balanced roster with guys that enjoy playing with each other and helped build that team culture.

He did ok. That core was simply not good enough though because he skipped on Haliburton which is still absolutely killing us. We don't know his level of involvement with drafting Ayton over Luka.

Still should not have traded off Mikal, Cam, and all the bloody picks for the then soon to be 35 KD. It's a situation where we were mediocre and then made a lateral move that cost us the future. So it's a net loss.


Think I would have just preferred to keep the picks and players, and see what was available in the offseason, keep drafting etc.. Still comes back to the issue of not drafting Luka or Haliburton, because those were the freebie superstars that Book needed next to him that could have pushed us to elite status whilst letting us keep Mikal and Cam.

Ishbia does not strike me as a learner. And quite frankly given the stuff we've read about him, and the leaked emails, he also does not strike me as a smart person. But I'm going to be honest, most billionaires do not strike me as particularly smart anyway, so changing owners is like picking from a barrel of expired fruit. The ones with brains stay out of the way and Ishbia would do well to learn this.

JJ screwed things up too.

He utterly failed in getting quality backups and kept trotting out fringe NBA players like Ish, Jock (I love the guy but he's not good), Saben, Bazley, Shamet etc etc.

The biggest blunder was drafting Stix over Halliburton or Maxley when it was clear we had no real answer for who was going to replace CP3, I just can't get over how stupid of a pick that was to get a raw skinny PF who needed a lot of minutes to develop.

Then there was the weird Crowder issue and how he was told to stay away from the team which really drove his value down, the offers that JJ got he turned down and eventually we just really just lost Jae to become nothing but salary filler for the KD trade.

[phnart]

I think the hardest part with Booker is that you can see on his face when he is engaged and when he is not. Was anyone here surprised in the second quarter, for example, when he started chirping at the refs, forced shots, turned the ball over, and picked up a couple dumb fouls in a two minute span? I certainly wasn't.

When things are going good for D-Book: The Man, The Myth, The Shoe, he's fun to watch and unstoppable. When things aren't, he pouts, loses his focus completely, and seems to need about 3/4 of a quarter or more to come out of his funk. The Suns can't afford to have 8-10 minutes of disengaged Booker because things aren't going his way.

[garrick]

I think the hardest part with Booker is that you can see on his face when he is engaged and when he is not. Was anyone here surprised in the second quarter, for example, when he started chirping at the refs, forced shots, turned the ball over, and picked up a couple dumb fouls in a two minute span? I certainly wasn't.

When things are going good for D-Book: The Man, The Myth, The Shoe, he's fun to watch and unstoppable. When things aren't, he pouts, loses his focus completely, and seems to need about 3/4 of a quarter or more to come out of his funk. The Suns can't afford to have 8-10 minutes of disengaged Booker because things aren't going his way.

Yeah I don't think he's ever had a tough nosed coach tell him to stop whining to the refs about missed calls because he's always been the man on this team.

Book is the first to call out his teammates about missed plays but when it comes to him he doesn't seem to take accountability which could be one reason why his teammates largely seem to underperform when they sign here. He just doesn't have the maturity to lead the team and his physical attributes aren't great enough to will his team to win like Doncic or a Jokic.

I don't know if teams have figured Book out or something else is mentally wrong with him because he's been having more of these stinkers this season. Is the added pressure of winning it all and not having CP3 getting to him?

[bwgood77]

We all know Booker is not Jokic. But neither is any other player in this league. The fact that Armani is not a generational, transcendental talent can not be an excuse for p** poor job our FO and/or new owner did. He's certainly to blame for a few disappearing acts in key PO games, but he was overall more than solid for what is the standard for a max guy these days. Silly contracts are being thrown around the league for years. That's the state of the game.

If we paid attention to the draft, maybe we would've had at least a promise of that kind of a player. If we targeted better, smarter trade options, maybe we would've had a much deeper roster. Maybe a guy like Siakam would let us retain at least Cam and a pick here or there.

Players with Booker's traits are not leading their teams to championships by themselves, that's like common knowledge for ages already. Basketball has changed. I could never picture Kobe bringing the rings to LA in today's league. Yet, what did we do to alleviate that? You bring another iso scorer, on the downside of his career on top of that. And then hire a guy like Vogel to make things right. How could anyone sane and even remotely invested in this sport think that'd pay dividends is just beyond me.

I'm open to trading literally everyone, Booker included, but if the trade and FA ideas are going to be idiotic like the ones we've seen since Ishbia took over, we're going to be even worse in the long run. With current state of our operatives and executives, we'll trade him and get 2 lesser players and a few picks we're going to waste anyway - turn a tier2 superstar into few average Joe's and youngsters who are most likely going to be out of the league in 5 years. So, from bad to worse.

I think we could get a crapload of picks and maybe MIles McBride, Josh Hart and Randle for KD. NY can do it with 8 tradeable firsts, so they'd still have a bunch even if they gave us like 4. I am trying to figure out who would be a good place to trade Book to. Not many contenders have a ton of picks. You have OKC, but I'm not really sure they'd want to get a supermax guy and give up a ton for a guy who would take a ton of shots away from Shai, but it's possible. Houston would do it for Green I think...and him with Smith, Sengun, FVV, etc, would be strong. The Spurs would probably do it to pair with Wemby. They have Atlanta's 3 first rounders plus their own. I'd rather send him to the east but not sure where he'd go. I think NY would love him too but I don't see anyone else wanting KD because of his age...unless it was MIami or something, but they don't have the picks. The Lakers would but they don't have them either. The Warriors? Kuminga, picks and maybe another young player? Though we'd need a bunch of filler. Hawks would do it since they are desperate. They may want to deal Young but the vast majority of the fanbase would probably rather keep him than Murray so maybe we get something like Murray, Hunter? I'd love Okongwu too...but that is maybe too much...so a bunch of picks, but they already gave 3 away for Murray.

I think we'd keep Beal...not a lot of trade value and a good locker room, positive leader guy, who can get the younger guys playing together, etc.

But mainly we should build through the draft the right way, if we could have a great scouting department.

[bwgood77]

it's a matter of time. Ant is on the way up now so people will celebrate him. As soon as something goes wrong, they will bring him down.

It's happening right now with Haliburton.

It's weird, Haliburton has not been nearly as good without Siakam. You would think the team would be better but I don't think it is, despite Siakam putting up big #s. He seems to stifle ball movement and be a ball stopper even though he is a decent assist guy. It reminds me a little of how KJ suffered a bit playing with Barkley. In many ways we were not as fun to watch, because Barkley would stop the run and gun fun and back down, slowly, dribbling and either turn around and shoot or pass out if he got a double team. KJ would always run and penetrate to the basket, stop on a dime for a 10 footer, or dish to someone open. That team would have been even better if we didn't play through Barkley and we just simply let KJ run things and and Barkley could either play that type of offense when KJ sat, or just play more like Amare did, but with the great rebounding. Barkley could absolutely run and finish and drive...like a smaller version of Zion.

The Pacers were on fire offensively with Hield, and now they gave up 3 first round picks and Bruce Brown for Siakam. Indiana can be good but I don't think they catch the defense off guard, do not hit nearly the # of 3s, and Tyrese ends up standing at the 3 pt line often, watching Siakam take a ton of shots (25 yesterday....I think only 1 3, and got to the line 10x but only hit 5 of them.)

[bwgood77]

I think the hardest part with Booker is that you can see on his face when he is engaged and when he is not. Was anyone here surprised in the second quarter, for example, when he started chirping at the refs, forced shots, turned the ball over, and picked up a couple dumb fouls in a two minute span? I certainly wasn't.

When things are going good for D-Book: The Man, The Myth, The Shoe, he's fun to watch and unstoppable. When things aren't, he pouts, loses his focus completely, and seems to need about 3/4 of a quarter or more to come out of his funk. The Suns can't afford to have 8-10 minutes of disengaged Booker because things aren't going his way.

Yeah I don't think he's ever had a tough nosed coach tell him to stop whining to the refs about missed calls because he's always been the man on this team.

Book is the first to call out his teammates about missed plays but when it comes to him he doesn't seem to take accountability which could be one reason why his teammates largely seem to underperform when they sign here. He just doesn't have the maturity to lead the team and his physical attributes aren't great enough to will his team to win like Doncic or a Jokic.

I don't know if teams have figured Book out or something else is mentally wrong with him because he's been having more of these stinkers this season. Is the added pressure of winning it all and not having CP3 getting to him?

Yeah, I can't stand Bickley, and as much as Booker has been fun to watch at times throughout his career, one thing I saw Bickley say in a radio clip someone posted here that I agreed with was his "too cool for school attitude/persona" that he has. He has always had this act like he is serious, cocky, the best, and he's great but often doesn't live up to it. But he never looks like he's having fun out there..you rarely see a smile...then KD has zero personality. I don't think Book is a good leader and KD has never been one...too shy unless he's behind a keyboard. As much as people are annoyed by Luka, he always smiles, has a good time, AND kills it...along with a lot of guys, fans around the league love. I hear "Book has the most punchable face in the NBA so often from the hardcore fans on the GB...I can kind of understand why."

[Ghost of Kleine]

Watch on YouTube

[Ghost of Kleine]

So a question! IF Ty Lue wasn't a viable option for us this summer, how would people feel about this consideration alternatively:

Option 1- Mike Brown ( **if not retained by the kings) as offensive coach / and then David Joerger (defensive assistant).

Option 2-
Nate McMillan (defense)/ D'antoni or Atkinson as offensive coordinator ( assistant)?

Option 3-
Mike Budenholzer (offense)/ Steve Clifford (defense), David Joerger or an up and coming college coach?? (for development, etc).

[JDJ26]

Interesting commercial.

Maybe a KD to OKC trade is on the horizon.

[SunsRback4Good]

Interesting commercial.

Maybe a KD to OKC trade is on the horizon.

That sorta confirms it that KD is headed back to OKC for possibly Dort, Giddy, Jalen, 2-3 first round picks. LETS GOOOOO!!!!

[Son of Ra]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

I been here since December, homie.

[bigfoot]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

I been here since December, homie.

GoK saw the writing on the wall. The scent of draft picks on the air is a strong attractant.

[SunsRback4Good]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

I been here since December, homie.

And you said nothing on this matter. You’re part to blame for our teams chaotic season.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Lol, have we entered the desperate phase?

I been here since December, homie.

GoK saw the writing on the wall. The scent of draft picks on the air is a strong attractant.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Watch on YouTube

[Slim Charless]

Interesting commercial.

Maybe a KD to OKC trade is on the horizon.

Shhhhhh.....

Someone here has been saying that for months and has been shouted down every time. I don't wish for the same fate for you.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Interesting commercial.

Maybe a KD to OKC trade is on the horizon.

Shhhhhh.....

Someone here has been saying that for months and has been shouted down every time. I don't wish for the same fate for you.

Slims' been pretty good with his prognostications on things for sure!


And admittedly, I was pushing for KD to New York myself (primarily due to the post GS interview saying he, his family, his agent, etc loved New York). But I also did not think that OKC hated KD at all, and think Slim was very "on point" that OKC would take him back to help push them much further in the playoffs "prodigal son" drafted by them returns home to help them to their 1st ever championship storyline being great for the NBA. Also being great for KDs' legacy wanting to lead a team to a title.