Boris Diaws' Shooting Woes
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-SDU-
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im happy for diaw to be shooting more and missing more than not shooting at all
his shot will return. he was hitting 18 footers with great consistency earlier this season, when that returns, he will be getting another 4-6 points per game putting him up to 10-11 with 4 and 4 which is definately enough
stick with him guys, hes taking more shots, hes being more aggressive, lay off the guy, let it come to him like we are being patient with bell etc
his shot will return. he was hitting 18 footers with great consistency earlier this season, when that returns, he will be getting another 4-6 points per game putting him up to 10-11 with 4 and 4 which is definately enough
stick with him guys, hes taking more shots, hes being more aggressive, lay off the guy, let it come to him like we are being patient with bell etc
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KPCB34
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People have to realise Diaw is not going to play like an allstar like he did the year Amare wasnt playing.
He stepped up in the absence of Amare and played awesome, which we all loved, but now we have Amare back and healthy and he doesnt even get the ball enough but also we have Grant Hill.
The best we can ask for from Boris is to continue to be aggressive keep taking that 18footer and post up the smaller guys which he is still doing from time to time.
He stepped up in the absence of Amare and played awesome, which we all loved, but now we have Amare back and healthy and he doesnt even get the ball enough but also we have Grant Hill.
The best we can ask for from Boris is to continue to be aggressive keep taking that 18footer and post up the smaller guys which he is still doing from time to time.
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-SDU-
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KP is totally right, first we asked him to adjust when amare comes back, then we add another "point forward" in hill, what did we expect to happen?
when amare was out earlier this year and boris got a chance to start for 3 games, he averaged 13 6 and 5 whilst shooting about 47%
so when he gets his chance without amare there, he still contributes
but for the season boris is averaging 7 4 and 3,
he is shooting terribly since dantoni challenged him to be more aggressive, he is missing 3-4 jump shots per game
in the first 24 games of this season, boris took 8 or more field goal attempts, only 6 times, culminating in dantoni berating him after our loss to new orleans. Since then we have played 7 games, and diaw has attempted at least 8 shots in every single game, and we have only lost twice in those 7 games (coincidentally, both losses came in the 2 games that diaw played the least minutes of those 7 games)
i can find 100 quotes from earlier this season where people said diaws jump shot has become money, so really, he is just in a shooting slump
when he breaks from that, and hits 2 of those 4 misses, he will be getting 11 4 and 4 consistently, and thats what we need from him
anyone who has watched him play the last 10 games compared to the first 10 can obviously see that he is trying to look for his shot, he is trying to be more aggressive and he is trying to get some nutz
just be patient, as soon as his shot starts falling again, it should all come together for him
im still with ya boris!
when amare was out earlier this year and boris got a chance to start for 3 games, he averaged 13 6 and 5 whilst shooting about 47%
so when he gets his chance without amare there, he still contributes
but for the season boris is averaging 7 4 and 3,
he is shooting terribly since dantoni challenged him to be more aggressive, he is missing 3-4 jump shots per game
in the first 24 games of this season, boris took 8 or more field goal attempts, only 6 times, culminating in dantoni berating him after our loss to new orleans. Since then we have played 7 games, and diaw has attempted at least 8 shots in every single game, and we have only lost twice in those 7 games (coincidentally, both losses came in the 2 games that diaw played the least minutes of those 7 games)
i can find 100 quotes from earlier this season where people said diaws jump shot has become money, so really, he is just in a shooting slump
when he breaks from that, and hits 2 of those 4 misses, he will be getting 11 4 and 4 consistently, and thats what we need from him
anyone who has watched him play the last 10 games compared to the first 10 can obviously see that he is trying to look for his shot, he is trying to be more aggressive and he is trying to get some nutz
just be patient, as soon as his shot starts falling again, it should all come together for him
im still with ya boris!
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mkot
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Agreed with SDU and KP. For the record, I'm not an all-out Boris defender, but I really think some of the crap he's gotten on this board has been ridiculous. He definitely hasn't been playing well, and while its a matter of opinion, I just don't believe he's been dogging it or taking shot just to prove a point something stupid like that. I don't believe he was simply playing well in 05-06 because it was a contract year. The guy is a basketball player. Heck, I said it before and I will say it again - he is more of a basketball player than Amare is. I just really think getting all the guys adjusted and used to playing with each other has been rough, especially for someone as laid back and unselfish as Boris seems to be.
If you think about it, its not really surprising that Boris has struggled. I mean, we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer and slasher in Hill and a straight scorer in LB. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shot blocker. You can't look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible because there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team.
So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did the past few games, does it mean he sucks or isn't trying? We have Amare, Hill, Marion, Nash, LB and Raja taking almost 90% of the minutes and shots, you need role players to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' $9 million per contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he plays like it. Well, it doesn't work that way. We paid him that kind of money that year because of the uncertainties we had with Amare's health. We HAD to pay him whatever him/his agent wanted. I think the correct expectation of him is to hope he plays well, stays aggressive and helps us in games even if the numbers aren't gaudy and eye popping - handle the ball some, rebound some, score some and play solid defense. And I think he did that the past few games. All is encouraging, so I don't understand all the hates toward him on this board.
If you think about it, its not really surprising that Boris has struggled. I mean, we score 110ppg, have the league leader in assists, a dominant player in Amare, a rebounder in Shawn, a scorer and slasher in Hill and a straight scorer in LB. We added Skinner to give us a defensive presence, rebounder and shot blocker. You can't look at Boris and say, he should be giving us 15-6-6 if he gets his minutes. It just might not be possible because there are only so many minutes in a game and so much he can do given the talent on the team.
So if he can "only" get 8-4-4 playing the way he did the past few games, does it mean he sucks or isn't trying? We have Amare, Hill, Marion, Nash, LB and Raja taking almost 90% of the minutes and shots, you need role players to fill the gaps which is why Skinner looks so good for us right now. Boris' $9 million per contract makes him a target obviously, so you hope he plays like it. Well, it doesn't work that way. We paid him that kind of money that year because of the uncertainties we had with Amare's health. We HAD to pay him whatever him/his agent wanted. I think the correct expectation of him is to hope he plays well, stays aggressive and helps us in games even if the numbers aren't gaudy and eye popping - handle the ball some, rebound some, score some and play solid defense. And I think he did that the past few games. All is encouraging, so I don't understand all the hates toward him on this board.
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Cash
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BringinDaRuckus wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I think it's easy to explain with the return of Amare. Wtih Amare already hanging out at the low block, it's hard for Diaw to run a pick and roll to get on smaller players and even harder to drive to the hoop knowing that whoever is guarding Amare will be waiting there for the weakside help(block) because we all know Diaw doesn't jump to the hoop, he sort of walks then a small hop at the end.
Fair points all. But Nash, Hill, & Barbosa still penetrate and get to the rim with Amare on the floor. Diaw's usually guarded by a 4 or 5; he has a bigger speed mismatch than Hill does at the 3, yet Diaw's still chucking up these 18-footers. And he doesn't seem to be doing better when Amare's on the bench. Yes, SDU, I know he had that decent stretch of 3 games when Amare was out, but I'm talking about coming off the bench in-game. If Diaw needs Amare in street clothes to be successful on this team, he needs to be traded.
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Cash
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WTFsunsFTW wrote:Why are the only options bricking an 18 footer and dishing out of a layup?
Your cynicism is shortsighted and crass.
I'm with you, WTF. 18-footers, even uncontested ones, are among the worst shots in basketball. It's fine when KT is taking an open 18-footer, because 1) He can't make a 3-pointer, 2) He CAN make an 18-footer, and 3) He can't get to the rim, except on putbacks. With Diaw, he can't make a 3-pointer, can't make an 18-footer (at least not right now), but SHOULD be able to get to the rim on almost anyone in the league. And yeah, if he gets to the rim then passes out for anything except a very high-efficiency shot (e.g., Bell wide open for 3), I'll criticize him for it. But I'll criticize him because he should be taking higher-efficiency shots, not lower-efficiency shots.
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ma_falaa_50
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I think boris shooting woes doesnt really bother me but his decision making is more of a concern. the pics on dirty scottsdale may not have anything to do with his game on the floor but i kinda puts to light his ability to make the right decision at the right time.
His shots are not ill advised shots or forced but he needs to practice at it more. The thing is too his shots come at a variety of ways. He shoots an 18 footer which is a beautiful shot but he needs to practice it more so it can be close to automatic. defenders are giving him space because of what he did in his first yr with phx. I think Boris has improved a lot in his approach. He needs to continue to be agressive. Even Grant is having difficulty with carrying the offensive load when nash is out and he is a savvy veteran. I think Boris struggles and still continue to attack is a good sign becuase he is playng agresive.
Mkot, whats with the calling out of Amare? I kow his defense has left a lot to be desired but you can not call him a non ballplayer? I know you are a Shawn Marionite but last time I checked Marion still doesnt have a midrange? his Ft have been attrocious which is actually insignificant because he doesnt go to the line anyway. where is his off the dribble game? or handles? or 3 point shot? Last time I checked He has also come to camp out of shape the past 3 seasons. If you look at this rebounding numbers the past week it has dwidled. could it be that he cant stack his numbers? I mean with Skinner, amare, and Boris have put in efort to rebound hard rebound what has your boy done?
AMare has been out played by every big man this season but he is taking the responsibility for playing like crap. When Lamar outplays shawn has he taken responsibility for it? when he disappears vs San antonio what does he say? when he shot the Airball vs NO did he take the blame for taking a bad shot? well no, no, no. He blamed it on lack of his offensive flow while Raja, and Steve took responsibility for not making the right decision.
you can call amare whatever you want but get ready to get disputed because although he has yet to prove he can be the man in the paint people can not deny his desire to improve as a player. Marion is worrie about being a star. For example wanting a 20 million dollar a year contract, want to be in LA, not working on improving his game int he offseason which is supported by him coming to camp out of shape. his dwindling shooting percentage outside from non dunks.
I always liked shawn and I think he is the guy that would help the suns get over the top but only if he refined his skills which he hasnt. The numbers do not lie. You dont workhard in the offseason and get career lows.
As for Boris he is a non impact player. He is a role player now which he understands. If he continues to do whatever it tkaes to win, I dont care how bad he is shooting. Are you even surprised he has a bad shooting percentage? He is a lousy FT guy and those guys are usually bad shooters.
His shots are not ill advised shots or forced but he needs to practice at it more. The thing is too his shots come at a variety of ways. He shoots an 18 footer which is a beautiful shot but he needs to practice it more so it can be close to automatic. defenders are giving him space because of what he did in his first yr with phx. I think Boris has improved a lot in his approach. He needs to continue to be agressive. Even Grant is having difficulty with carrying the offensive load when nash is out and he is a savvy veteran. I think Boris struggles and still continue to attack is a good sign becuase he is playng agresive.
Mkot, whats with the calling out of Amare? I kow his defense has left a lot to be desired but you can not call him a non ballplayer? I know you are a Shawn Marionite but last time I checked Marion still doesnt have a midrange? his Ft have been attrocious which is actually insignificant because he doesnt go to the line anyway. where is his off the dribble game? or handles? or 3 point shot? Last time I checked He has also come to camp out of shape the past 3 seasons. If you look at this rebounding numbers the past week it has dwidled. could it be that he cant stack his numbers? I mean with Skinner, amare, and Boris have put in efort to rebound hard rebound what has your boy done?
AMare has been out played by every big man this season but he is taking the responsibility for playing like crap. When Lamar outplays shawn has he taken responsibility for it? when he disappears vs San antonio what does he say? when he shot the Airball vs NO did he take the blame for taking a bad shot? well no, no, no. He blamed it on lack of his offensive flow while Raja, and Steve took responsibility for not making the right decision.
you can call amare whatever you want but get ready to get disputed because although he has yet to prove he can be the man in the paint people can not deny his desire to improve as a player. Marion is worrie about being a star. For example wanting a 20 million dollar a year contract, want to be in LA, not working on improving his game int he offseason which is supported by him coming to camp out of shape. his dwindling shooting percentage outside from non dunks.
I always liked shawn and I think he is the guy that would help the suns get over the top but only if he refined his skills which he hasnt. The numbers do not lie. You dont workhard in the offseason and get career lows.
As for Boris he is a non impact player. He is a role player now which he understands. If he continues to do whatever it tkaes to win, I dont care how bad he is shooting. Are you even surprised he has a bad shooting percentage? He is a lousy FT guy and those guys are usually bad shooters.
gut check time suckas!
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arnold_babar
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I think the types of jumpshots that Boris is attempting have changed over the last several games.
Early in the year when he was 'automatic' from 18, Boris was strictly standing still, getting set and firing right away without hesitation.
In the past several games, I have seen Boris take several shots where he was kind of coming of a screen or wasn't squared to the basket and he kind of fades away. I don't think I've ever seen him make one when he is off balance.
When he squares up, he's a much better shooter, as opposed to Amare who seems to be able to still shoot really well even when he hesitates or fades.
I like Boris being more aggressive, but he should not take the jumpshot when he is off balance.
Early in the year when he was 'automatic' from 18, Boris was strictly standing still, getting set and firing right away without hesitation.
In the past several games, I have seen Boris take several shots where he was kind of coming of a screen or wasn't squared to the basket and he kind of fades away. I don't think I've ever seen him make one when he is off balance.
When he squares up, he's a much better shooter, as opposed to Amare who seems to be able to still shoot really well even when he hesitates or fades.
I like Boris being more aggressive, but he should not take the jumpshot when he is off balance.
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-SDU-
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Cash wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I'm with you, WTF. 18-footers, even uncontested ones, are among the worst shots in basketball. It's fine when KT is taking an open 18-footer, because 1) He can't make a 3-pointer, 2) He CAN make an 18-footer, and 3) He can't get to the rim, except on putbacks. With Diaw, he can't make a 3-pointer, can't make an 18-footer (at least not right now), but SHOULD be able to get to the rim on almost anyone in the league. And yeah, if he gets to the rim then passes out for anything except a very high-efficiency shot (e.g., Bell wide open for 3), I'll criticize him for it. But I'll criticize him because he should be taking higher-efficiency shots, not lower-efficiency shots.
a couple of points on this
diaw CAN make 18 footers, just as much as raja can make 3 pointers, they are both in slumps right now, but you have to shoot your way out of it
when boris takes that shot, its usually because he CANT drive to the rim because the defense backs off and gives him the shot and because the D is backed off it has more time to react to any drive that he does
he needs to hit a few shots, get the D up on him respecting his shot and THEN blow by them to the basket
hitting long range shots is key to opening up a driving game
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doubleh11
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D just needs to start taking it to the rack and not settling for jumpers when he's in a slump.....make a few lay ups first, get to the rim, get fouled and sink some free throws.....these are the things that will build a little confidence in the game and get a player on track.....don't just pull the trigger randomly....it's obviously in his head, so take it to the rack big dawg!
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-SDU-
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-SDU- wrote:im happy for diaw to be shooting more and missing more than not shooting at all
his shot will return. he was hitting 18 footers with great consistency earlier this season, when that returns, he will be getting another 4-6 points per game putting him up to 10-11 with 4 and 4 which is definately enough
stick with him guys, hes taking more shots, hes being more aggressive, lay off the guy, let it come to him like we are being patient with bell etc
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
this SDU guy was right
wheres frank when you need him?
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-SDU-
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consistently inconsistent?
even in those not so good statistical games though he had an impact, he was aggressive and still set up a lot and was positive in his role. he definately impacted those games as shown in the 11 assists in the 2 games
far cry from earlier this year
he is settling down now, and i dont want heaps, 10 4 and 4, will be enough for him to be a big piece for us
what happens when he goes to the bench is big
even in those not so good statistical games though he had an impact, he was aggressive and still set up a lot and was positive in his role. he definately impacted those games as shown in the 11 assists in the 2 games
far cry from earlier this year
he is settling down now, and i dont want heaps, 10 4 and 4, will be enough for him to be a big piece for us
what happens when he goes to the bench is big
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eastsidecrossover
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Like wise SDU. I agree, this cat is on it. Were you drunk when you posted this, and therefore it was right? Im kidding mate.
Good call tho. I am impressed and happy to see him step up and return back to manhood. He is a huge wild card for this team. If he steps up and plays well, it affects the rest of this team. When he is confident, and Amare and he are co-existing, this team is the most dangerous in the NBA. For instance, bynum has been a huge part of the lakers success. He is not putting up huge numbers, but is a double-double guy that gets 12 pts and 10 rebs. Well, diaw may not pull down 10 rebs, but he can pass, blk shots, and play some D. Just avg around 10-14 pts a game and playing his game will be huge for us. His shot looks great, and he is not hesitating and looks confident which affects his whole game.
Now he needs to keep this up for the rest of the year.
Good call tho. I am impressed and happy to see him step up and return back to manhood. He is a huge wild card for this team. If he steps up and plays well, it affects the rest of this team. When he is confident, and Amare and he are co-existing, this team is the most dangerous in the NBA. For instance, bynum has been a huge part of the lakers success. He is not putting up huge numbers, but is a double-double guy that gets 12 pts and 10 rebs. Well, diaw may not pull down 10 rebs, but he can pass, blk shots, and play some D. Just avg around 10-14 pts a game and playing his game will be huge for us. His shot looks great, and he is not hesitating and looks confident which affects his whole game.
Now he needs to keep this up for the rest of the year.
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KJ7
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TASTIC wrote:When he does it for 3 games in a row, then I'll have more faith in him!
Last 5 games (pts-reb-asst):
21-11-6
7-1-6
19-6-5
5-2-5
14-10-6
WILDLY inconsistent...
I was gonna say exactly the same thing. I do agree that he has been playing generally better tho. Would just be nice to string 2 good scoring games together but we'll take what we can get.
Should be interesting to see whether Hill will come back into the starting line-up when healthy or whether we stay with this.
Sure was nice to see our starting frontcourt all get close to 10 boards. Don't know why but when Marion is our starting SF I think we should be doing this regularly. Happened once or twice last season when Kurt was in the starting line-up.
He is def having an impact from a play-making perspective a lot more consistently. It's just rebounding and putting the ball in the hoop that he tends to have every other game off.
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WTFsunsFTW
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