Neither Devin Booker nor Kevin Durant are TOP 10 at the moment

[Bogyo]

Indeed they aren't top 10 but currently both are above KD and Booker. Or at least this is what they showed yesterday.

Having a system, players who are willing to buy into that system, great team chemistry and an overall winning culture is huge and often compensate for the lack of superstar talent.

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

We could have, but its JJ, and not "we". He doesnt do that "work" stuff - you know its a four letter word and such. If it falls into his lap, then he is willing to overpay. Otherwise? Sht doesnt get done.

[Puff]

All these bargains JJ acquired this past off season, including Beal, were bargains for a reason.

We are seeing their true value on a nightly basis.

However, he did acquire a Championship head coach and he retained Monty's right arm man, the true reason why we were so successful when Monty was here.

He also saved Ish money as we have no draft picks. So, we have no need for a scouting staff.

The damage JJ and Ish did to this franchise in the past 12 months is hard to comprehend.

OH wait, everything will be wonderful when Beal comes back. Silly me.

[bwgood77]

Having a system, players who are willing to buy into that system, great team chemistry and an overall winning culture is huge and often compensate for the lack of superstar talent.

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

We could have, but its JJ, and not "we". He doesnt do that "work" stuff - you know its a four letter word and such. If it falls into his lap, then he is willing to overpay. Otherwise? Sht doesnt get done.

Well, for example, if we don't trade 4 unprotected 1sts right now we could easily get Tyus Jones. People should know I've always wanted him and would be great. Memphis actually played better with him than Morant. He has an insane ast/to ratio and can hit the 3. He would be perfect for this team, and probably Ayton had we kept him or whoever we traded him for if we got another decent C, but a Jones/Book/Mikal/Cam/decent C, with mostly our whole arsenal of picks outside of the one used for Tyus Jones would be a good team.

[Boujack]

It seems that every day both are further and further away from even a TOP 20.

[enigmatics]

Indeed they aren't top 10 but currently both are above KD and Booker. Or at least this is what they showed yesterday.

Having a system, players who are willing to buy into that system, great team chemistry and an overall winning culture is huge and often compensate for the lack of superstar talent.

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore ESPECIALLY in the West. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 3-5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

[sunsbg]

Having a system, players who are willing to buy into that system, great team chemistry and an overall winning culture is huge and often compensate for the lack of superstar talent.

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

Fraudulent 64 wins. lol Give me any kind of 64 wins. They were handling Mavs pretty well before CP3 broke down.

[enigmatics]

Fraudulent 64 wins. lol Give me any kind of 64 wins. They were handling Mavs pretty well before CP3 broke down.

Going to a Game 7 against THAT Mavs squad doesn't mean you're handling anything.

[sunsbg]

Fraudulent 64 wins. lol Give me any kind of 64 wins. They were handling Mavs pretty well before CP3 broke down.

Going to a Game 7 against THAT Mavs squad doesn't mean you're HANDLING anything.

Read again.

[enigmatics]

Fraudulent 64 wins. lol Give me any kind of 64 wins. They were handling Mavs pretty well before CP3 broke down.

Going to a Game 7 against THAT Mavs squad doesn't mean you're HANDLING anything.

Read again.

He played the whole series you know the one that went the entire 7 games.

Or did he only break down in the losses?

[sunsbg]

Going to a Game 7 against THAT Mavs squad doesn't mean you're HANDLING anything.

Read again.

He played the whole series you know the one that went the entire 7 games.

Or did he only break down in the losses?

He's been broken down ever since turning 37 after Gm2. He got old and probably injured in that series. He was the engine and had to be replaced for the car to keep running. It's that simple. Right now Suns have an old failing engine too.

[bwgood77]

Having a system, players who are willing to buy into that system, great team chemistry and an overall winning culture is huge and often compensate for the lack of superstar talent.

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore ESPECIALLY in the West. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 3-5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

[garrick]

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore ESPECIALLY in the West. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 3-5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

Yeah I mean we also lost game 6 to Denver in similar fashion getting blown out with Booker and KD not bothering to show up so I fail to see how the 64 team was worse than our team last year or this year.

Agreed that CP3 getting injured was huge for us and not having any kind of replacement for him was really what did us in.

[Calvin Klein]

KD and Booker are better individual talents than Fox/Sabonis for sure, but there is something to be said about who are the better team players....have impact on teammates.

Booker never could win before Paul and look at us now even with KD. Of course we didn't have too much talent before Paul and Bridges/Ayton growing by 2nd year as well as the addition of Cam. We finally became a good young team in 20-21 and 21-22 before deciding to blow it up after 2 years of great play with a young team..a year after setting a franchise record for wins. Sounds pretty ludicrous typing that out. How many times has a 64 win team been blown up? A team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade, made a finals run and then won 64 games. Then fans get so impatient that after 10 years of being awful we should have won a title or two the first two years a young team got good (yes, I know Paul was the catalyst but we could have worked on a replacement there after missing out on Haliburton).

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore ESPECIALLY in the West. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 3-5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

absolutely.

BTW just read that CP had 5 surgeries in one hand and 6 in the other. That's crazy. He was probably dealing with something like that during the Finals as well when he stopped being able to dribble like he should.

[bwgood77]

Those were the most fraudulent 64 wins ever and it's time some of you start accepting that not to mention coasting in the regular season doesn't translate to playoff basketball.

Their true DNA showed in that Mavs series - it was the kind of loss that scars a franchise especially one on the cusp of having to dole out major extensions. They also didn't get the same breaks that flowed their way in their magical Finals run i.e. the rest of the West was healthy come playoff time with the exception of Denver who still didn't have Murray back yet.

On top of that you have to factor in the arms race to get better - teams really don't stand pat anymore ESPECIALLY in the West. Wasn't it a stat that rosters are turning over in a big way almost every 3-5 years now? I'm trying to find the actual stat - but I know for a fact it's happening a lot quicker now.

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

Yeah I mean we also lost game 6 to Denver in similar fashion getting blown out with Booker and KD not bothering to show up so I fail to see how the 64 team was worse than our team last year or this year.

Agreed that CP3 getting injured was huge for us and not having any kind of replacement for him was really what did us in.

Yeah, elimination games kill us. No one could hit anything. People act like Ayton "quitting" which is pretty unverified except by Lil Wayne and Skip Bayless cost us, but that was midway through the 4th down by like 30 anyway. We were done by halftime.

Book for whatever reason can't handle the pressure in games facing elimination...Bucks, Mavs and Nuggets...all very very bad. That rarely changes. Happened often with guys like Harden, KD to some extent, and many others. Guys like Kawhi, Jokic,Luka etc, are made of something different where there best stuff comes out when their back is really against the wall....

[garrick]

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

Yeah I mean we also lost game 6 to Denver in similar fashion getting blown out with Booker and KD not bothering to show up so I fail to see how the 64 team was worse than our team last year or this year.

Agreed that CP3 getting injured was huge for us and not having any kind of replacement for him was really what did us in.

Yeah, elimination games kill us. No one could hit anything. People act like Ayton "quitting" which is pretty unverified except by Lil Wayne and Skip Bayless cost us, but that was midway through the 4th down by like 30 anyway. We were done by halftime.

Book for whatever reason can't handle the pressure in games facing elimination...Bucks, Mavs and Nuggets...all very very bad. That rarely changes. Happened often with guys like Harden, KD to some extent, and many others. Guys like Kawhi, Jokic,Luka etc, are made of something different where there best stuff comes out when their back is really against the wall....

Luka can draw fouls at a high rate so he can manufacture ways to get points, Booker just isn't that great at drawing fouls after the league cut down on Harden's antics and he isn't as great an athlete like Kawhi, Jimmy Butler, etc so he can't just try to power through and hope to get some contact near the rim.

Teams have learned that if they crowd the middle they can force Booker and the team to make their threes and historically we have been very bad at punishing teams for leaving us wide open. I don't know if it's something in the water in Phoenix but shooters tend to struggle here, I know KD and Grayson are having very good shooting so far but the rest of the team is just having trouble hitting even wide open threes.

[enigmatics]

There is no such things as fraudulent wins. That team was miles better than this one. We started 26-5 with a WAY tougher schedule, beating a lot of those teams badly, like Denver by 30, etc.

Paul obviously was injured in the 2nd round after we went up on Dallas 2-0 and the entire team had some sort of meltdown in game 7.

You are what your record is. We are FAR FAR worse after going "All in". That's undeniable. You don't make the finals and nearly win it, and win 64 games with a fraudulent team. And they were young and we had all our draft picks.

You are living in some alternate world if you think that team was bad. Maybe not quite ready to win a championship because Paul was fading but you don't gut the team for an aging star. He's playing great but we just killed our depth, and are no longer a "TEAM" and lost our heart and identity.

All I see is a bunch of crap that I didn't even state and I'm not comparing them to this year's team or implying they were "bad" - you're saying those things.

Playoffs - since you need reminding - are a whole different animal and you don't have players/teams taking it easy, load managing, etc etc. The 64 wins did not tell the true story and I don't even need to defend that statement after the got exposed by Luka and his merry band of JAGS. It wasn't just "some sort of meltdown" those guys literally sh- themselves on one of the biggest stages vs. a guy they will forever be mocked for passing up in the draft.

There was a metamorphosis of a "treadmill" team taking place all the while Western Conference was continuing to load up to compete - the Suns were rightfully worried, especially with the rapid decline of CP3 and a bunch of contract extensions that likely weren't moving the needle. Whether or not they ended up making the right moves we'll find out even though it's not looking so great at the moment.

[sunskerr]

I think comparing the 64 win team to this team is pretty pointless. That team was not gonna win any championship. A nice, "cute" team but they were maxed out cap wise and ceiling wise.

Now, this team also looks like it's not a winner either lol. The only difference is that one had its future draft picks and the other doesn't.

Our chance to win a championship quite frankly doesn't come down to any of this crap about trading for KD/Beal etc or losing the twins (the twins were not gonna move the needle come on people).

The problem was we didn't draft well from 2016-2020. Three busts in Bender/Chriss/Jackson, then wasting picks on Ayton and Smith. Having three chances to get a generational player next to Booker in Luka/SGA/Hali and missing on all three.

That's how you lock yourselves in to trading all your future picks for a 35 year old star when it becomes apparent you only have one dude who can score reliably in the playoffs and every other team has two.

Those years where book was still developing and ok with losing were the foundational years for today's team and our GMs consistently **** the bed when it came to the one area where the league lets you improve your roster for free.

The lack of draft picks will be our doom for the next decade if this team doesn't figure out how to play. I'll go as far as to say it's a 1 year window with KD getting older, Beal injury prone, and if you hate the minimum salary guys we got this past off-season, I got news for you minimum guys are usually even worse (see last years bench) so once those deals expire may help us.

[garrick]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2024/1/9/24031188/the-phoenix-suns-lack-an-identity-frank-vogel-devin-booker-kevin-durant-bradley-beal

I agree with John Voita completely. This lies on Booker and KD and their passive aggressive form of leadership which we saw when Booker chewed out Metu for not sprinting back on defense, neither of the two are floor leaders and certainly don't inspire their teammates to succeed which could explain how some players go through Shamet mode and suddenly forget how to shoot.

We had CP3 who was that veteran who held the team together but with him gone we have two passive aggressive players who are snarky and yap at teammates who make mistakes and give the team a negative vibe.

Times are tough in Phoenix right now. It truly is a “what have you done for me lately” mindset as the Suns have last their last two games after winning 5 of their previous 6. The losses bring to the surface underlying issues and observations about the team, things that winning mutes.

A team that is 19-18 is truly a team in the middle, and while the reasoning behind that record for the Phoenix Suns can be explained, it doesn’t take away from the fact that they are the 9th seed in the Western Conference. This is a team that had much higher expectations than fighting for a play-in spot.

Yes, it’s only 37 games through the season. Injuries and continuity have been issues. But one challenge that the team continues to have is bigger than a strained hamstring or rolled ankle. It’s identity. And the Suns don’t really have one.

You think back to last summer. As newly hired Frank Vogel sat in a folded chair atop a makeshift stage in the lobby of the Footprint Center, microphone in front of him, he defined who and what his expectations for his 2023-24 team would be. “Scrappy as hell” he said.

Read on Twitter

That has yet to come to fruition.

The Suns don’t play scrappy. Or with consistency. Or with urgency. Or with focus. Or with desire. They play tentatively. They play passively. They play scared.

Scared of what, you may ask? This is purely observational, but it feels as if players are scared to mess up. Kevin Durant and Devin Booker are serious dudes, and we’ve seen them yell at teammates, both on and off the court. Not aggressively or maliciously, but in a way that makes you want to avoid making a mistake.

“Why aren’t you running back?” Booker yelled at Chimezie Metu on a play in the loss against Dallas on Christmas Day. “You turn the ball over and don’t run back?”.

Read on Twitter

Rather than being scrappy and taking chances on both offense and defense, their teammates play with fear and trepidation. Fear of failure, fear of being wrong, fear of making mistakes? Whatever it is, there is no grit.

The Suns have yet to build an identity, and in Monday’s blowout loss at the hands of the Los Angeles Clippers, we witnessed what a team who knows who it is can be. This season isn’t lost for Phoenix, they are simply in a lull.

When the Clippers acquired James Harden from the Philadelphia 76ers, the team lost seven consecutive games. It took time to develop on-court chemistry and — here’s that word again — an identity.

Fun Fact: Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal have only played 6 games together. 108 minutes. They are a +23 in those minutes.

Read on Twitter

It is going to take some time for an identity to develop. The question becomes what will it be? And why hasn’t what Vogel has attempted to deploy from an identity standpoint been executed to this point?

That is one of the challenges when you discuss identity, as a generally is tied to culture. The culture of the team. The mindset collectively that, despite certain players, being out, exists on and off the court. Why haven’t we seen something consistent relative to culture to this point of the season?

It is a deep question that has many variables and layers behind it. This isn’t a defensive team. This hasn’t been the offensive team we believed they would be. This isn’t a team that plays fast or attacks the boards, regardless of personnel.

Right now, the Suns are just a team that is. And that isn’t good enough.

[bwgood77]

I think comparing the 64 win team to this team is pretty pointless. That team was not gonna win any championship. A nice, "cute" team but they were maxed out cap wise and ceiling wise.

Now, this team also looks like it's not a winner either lol. The only difference is that one had its future draft picks and the other doesn't.

Our chance to win a championship quite frankly doesn't come down to any of this crap about trading for KD/Beal etc or losing the twins (the twins were not gonna move the needle come on people).

The problem was we didn't draft well from 2016-2020. Three busts in Bender/Chriss/Jackson, then wasting picks on Ayton and Smith. Having three chances to get a generational player next to Booker in Luka/SGA/Hali and missing on all three.

That's how you lock yourselves in to trading all your future picks for a 35 year old star when it becomes apparent you only have one dude who can score reliably in the playoffs and every other team has two.

Those years where book was still developing and ok with losing were the foundational years for today's team and our GMs consistently **** the bed when it came to the one area where the league lets you improve your roster for free.

The lack of draft picks will be our doom for the next decade if this team doesn't figure out how to play. I'll go as far as to say it's a 1 year window with KD getting older, Beal injury prone, and if you hate the minimum salary guys we got this past off-season, I got news for you minimum guys are usually even worse (see last years bench) so once those deals expire may help us.

That team was young. Sure CP3 was the catalyst but the rest of the core had upside. Like you mentioned earlier, the smart move would have been to take a step back, retool, use our draft picks (hopefully wisely), and keep getting better, like other teams did when they got to the WCF or Semifinals even if they lost earlier (Denver, who got to the WCF in the bubble and lost earlier the next two years), Milwaukee, the Lakers with their trades last year. the Clippers adding nice players to their bench, the list goes on.

Yes, our draft picks hurt in there but we still had assets, young players, etc, to trade for smaller pieces to help and have a long term team with upside. Just because that team lost to Dallas (with Paul playing like crap), it was a 7 game series and they could have gotten to the WCF and matched up fairly well with GS who won it all.

[enigmatics]

Just because that team lost to Dallas (with Paul playing like crap), it was a 7 game series and they could have gotten to the WCF and matched up fairly well with GS who won it all.

You keep repeating this - but it should never have been a 7 game series in the first place just based on personnel alone and a 2-0 lead. Then they top it off by being historically annihilated in a Game 7 with home court advantage. It was a complete meltdown from the coaching staff on down to the players.

Maybe you couldn't smell the stench, but they sure could. You don't lose games that way unless something was really off about that nucleus - in particular a real lack of pride/integrity when the chips were down, which is essentially what lead up to the decision to pursue KD in the first place. They miserably failed a real gut check after being falsely propped up as so-called perennial NBA Finalist for years to come.