Game 24, Big 3 debut: The Nets (12-10) @ Suns (13-10) | Wednesday | 7:00PM

[enigmatics]

Maybe you have those guys , like you said Okogie or Little , somebody else mentioned Grayson Allen , no he’s not THAT guy in my opinion

But my question is if you have those guys why they don’t perform every game ? I watched every Nets game and Brown was most steady guy while he was in Brooklyn, you just knew what you got from him every single night , the same is with DFS , always gives his 110%

Yuta , honestly I’m surprised by his performance on the Suns , on the Nets he was 50% of Browns offense so not bad , shooting three’s occasionally driving , not a bad passer and on a good nights he was 70% of Browns defense , hustling like crazy , deflecting the ball grabbing loose balls , he wasn’t Brown but he was solid
His problem was consistency, you knew what you were getting from Brown , Yuta was hit or miss night

I think you obviously don't know that the Suns rotations arent cemented yet and it's because of injuries - so players haven't been able to settle into their roles.

Btw you severely overrate Brown's effectiveness on offense when he was a Net. Talking about a bench guy who couldn't even crack 10pts/g and averaged about 1 piddly 3pt attempt/g. He was primarily a high energy defensive minded, scrappy player. It's when he went to Denver where things opened up for him offensively.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Maybe you have those guys , like you said Okogie or Little , somebody else mentioned Grayson Allen , no he’s not THAT guy in my opinion

But my question is if you have those guys why they don’t perform every game ? I watched every Nets game and Brown was most steady guy while he was in Brooklyn, you just knew what you got from him every single night , the same is with DFS , always gives his 110%

Yuta , honestly I’m surprised by his performance on the Suns , on the Nets he was 50% of Browns offense so not bad , shooting three’s occasionally driving , not a bad passer and on a good nights he was 70% of Browns defense , hustling like crazy , deflecting the ball grabbing loose balls , he wasn’t Brown but he was solid
His problem was consistency, you knew what you were getting from Brown , Yuta was hit or miss night

I think you obviously don't know that the Suns rotations are cemented yet and it's because of injuries - so players haven't been able to settle into their roles.

Btw you severely overrate Brown's effectiveness on offense when he was a Net. Talking about a bench guy who couldn't even crack 10pts/g and averaged about 1 piddly 3pt attempt/g. He was primarily a high energy defensive minded, scrappy player. It's when he went to Denver where things opened up for him offensively.

You’re right of course I’m aware of big three injuries and games missed , but I don’t pay enough attention to know every even smallest injury of your remaining players

That’s a myth , Brown was the same if not a better player on the Nets that he was on the Nuggets , it’s some conspiracy theory that Nuggets enabled Brown , what Nuggets did was brilliant, they signed for scraps two biggest hustlers from the Nets in Brown and Uncle Jeff

You know who was the best 3 rd hustler on the Nets that year ? I’m curious if you can answer this correctly, he was washed already and way past his prime , you familiar with this player if you’re long time Suns fan

Edit : you follow the numbers , I watch the game and I pay attention to what kind of pressure defensive player throws on offense, Brown put tons of pressure, you don’t see this in a statistical measure after the game

Ok I’ll answer , Dragic was the 3rd best Net in that series although he was washed and with limited minutes


Not Durant !!! Not Kyrie !!! Yeah that’s right, it was Brown , Uncle Jeff and Dragic , only 3 Nets players who actually gave a F in this series

[AtheJ415]

I still can't get over Vogel having Eubanks out there guarding SFs on the perimeter and making offensive initiation decisions at the top of the key. Our coach is sinking us repeatedly.

It would be nice if our players gave a ****. I'd be far less concerned if we were losing close, hard fought games. We aren't. We have a coach who underperforms and a team of disengaged babies too busy trying to show up the refs than run a set

[SlovenianDragon]

can we get little to start yet? feel like coaches are dumber then the fans...

[AtheJ415]

That’s why I never liked Beal trade , you need guys like DFS or Bruce Browns of the league to give you that hard nosed defensive presence without compromising much on offense

Daniel Theis who went recently to the Clippers for cheap , ilike this guy as well

Well said ARK.. every contending team needs guys like Brown, DFS, Tucker (2-3 years ago), maybe Caruso, guys who play tough nosed defense and can nail corner shots or come through for putbacks like Bruce Brown. Sadly Suns don’t have those type of players which will make it extremely difficult in advancing further in the playoffs. I don’t see same intensity and drive by our team as opposed to what I saw with Bridges, CamJ, Crowder, CP3 back in 2021.

Well it's entirely possible either Grayson Allen or Nasir Little become that guy for them.

That being said they still need a second bench guy to materialize because most of these guys haven't been worth a damn.

Little and Allen have cemented themselves as part of the rotation. Gordon also but I think that was expected. He has started to defend after starting the year with inexcusably terrible effort on that end.

Metu is great on offense but gets picked on defensively. Our coaches make no effort to help him on that end. Goodwin is great on D but makes some of the stupidest decisions on offense imagineable. With good coaches, he would be more effective. Same for Okogie, but since we do not run real offensive sets they are left exposed due to shooting and mostly standing on islands in the corner.

We basically have to have a team of 2 way guys to be effective to make up for our unbelievably awful coaching.

And on top of that they take plays off. Booker and Goodwin are the only guys who play with real fire. KD is great but he does fling himself to the ground to show up the refs when he wants calls and gives up a bunch of buckets on the other end when doing so. He makes some boneheaded decisions in crunch time too like tonight.

This has been the most unlikeable team to root for since pre CP3.

[AtheJ415]

LIke it's only really easy to root for Book, Goodwin, and Okogie due to effort but 2 of those guys are just so limited in the offensive roles they are repeatedly put into by the coaching staff.

[AtheJ415]

Book & KD need to step up as leaders. Enough is enough. The consistent lack of effort and low IQ game deciding plays has to stop. Book is this franchise. Vogel should have to answer for why he's got Eubanks in during that small ball lineup run as well.

[RayLight]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all. Remember when Bridges and Cam Johnson played together with Book and CP3?
The game was just happening. Now, it is ISO and a total lack of communication and plays.
I agree that the team is not pleasant to watch and the main reason is the coaches.

[garrick]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all. Remember when Bridges and Cam Johnson played together with Book and CP3?
The game was just happening. Now, it is ISO and a total lack of communication and plays.
I agree that the team is not pleasant to watch and the main reason is the coaches.

When you rebuild the team so drastically this is what happens.

Players are still feeling each other out and the lineups have been constantly changing so no one really feels comfortable right now on this team. The best teams have played together for a number of years and you don't have massive roster changes.

Look at the more dominant teams in recent history, GSW, 90's Bulls, SAS, Miami Heatles, LBJ Cavs.

These teams had very stable rosters and kept the bulk of the roster the same, they did do minor changes and additions but nothing like what the Suns did to remove every last player from the 2021 championship run.

[sunsbum]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all.

I agree with this, and I'm not sure why yet still. My biggest question mark is still point book. I think in spurts its fine but the way we are playing its not. Now if we pushed the ball more and sped up the tempo of the offense I can see that working but the way we've turned Devin into a half court CP clone, its not happening. I just don't think we have an identity on offense...probably for a lot of reasons (Beal and injuries being one of them). I said give us 25 games to figure everything out but really it should be 25 games of healthy big 3. lots of questions around this team, and that's not necessarily a bad thing ...yet.

[SunsRback4Good]

…

[AtheJ415]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all. Remember when Bridges and Cam Johnson played together with Book and CP3?
The game was just happening. Now, it is ISO and a total lack of communication and plays.
I agree that the team is not pleasant to watch and the main reason is the coaches.

I agree. And for me it's not just the lack of system / dubmification of our offense where we are essentially the Rockets with CP3 and Harden, it's the lack of giving a **** a lot of the time, resulting in us taking the entire game off from rebounding or the lack of focus where we don't even look before tossing the ball directly to a defender, but also the strategically idiotic mistakes we repeatedly make that have not improved in even the slightest since these issues came about to start the season.

This team should care more than the fans. Effort level in the NBA should be the bare minimum. Improving decision-making should be just above that. Because of this, our performance has been inexcusable regardless of player availability. And yet, even with guys back they don't really get better.

I would looking at a coaching change at mid-season potentially. Our window is now and we can't waste a season on Vogel if he doesn't have it. This team cannot just flip a switch. It needs to be imprvoing game by game and we are the same team we were to start the year with the same problems. The only thing we've figured out is minor rotational decisions (like Little and Allen's expanded role). We've done nothing to imprvoe the collective IQ of the team, rein in errors, improve effort, nor running plays geared towards personnel so that our guys are in a position to succeed.

Anybody else notice we expect Eubanks to be an initiator off the short roll running the high PnR that we run with Nurkic? That is mind-numbingly DUMB given Eubanks entire skillset is to be an active body with size who is a rim runner. He is not Nurkic or okic or any type of creating big. This is the most frustratingly stupid team to watch that I can recall ever. Moreso than even Earl Watson bc that team we had no expectations for. This team is just a disaster and the fans deserve better and the stars we are paying $50+ mil to and that we mortgaged our entire future for owe it to the fans to demand more from this team.

[AtheJ415]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all. Remember when Bridges and Cam Johnson played together with Book and CP3?
The game was just happening. Now, it is ISO and a total lack of communication and plays.
I agree that the team is not pleasant to watch and the main reason is the coaches.

When you rebuild the team so drastically this is what happens.

Players are still feeling each other out and the lineups have been constantly changing so no one really feels comfortable right now on this team. The best teams have played together for a number of years and you don't have massive roster changes.

Look at the more dominant teams in recent history, GSW, 90's Bulls, SAS, Miami Heatles, LBJ Cavs.

These teams had very stable rosters and kept the bulk of the roster the same, they did do minor changes and additions but nothing like what the Suns did to remove every last player from the 2021 championship run.

Not to this extent. These are not chemistry errors. The things killing us are effort plays, tossing it directly to the opposition (not anticipating a cut or something like that which would be a chemistry issue, but we are literally just tossing the ball to the opposition or carelessly throwing it around without looking, or my favorite -- iverson cut out for the pass to the wing while seeing a closing defender and being too lazy to come back to the ball and then shrugging our shoulders or clapping our hands while the opposition dunks on the other end). We are also asking guys to perform in areas they have proven incapable throughout their careers (Eubanks running point C or chasing around perimeter players at the 3 point line, Okogie shooting crunch time 3s, Goodwin doing the same, etc.). Point being, these are errors entirely in our control that most elite college teams do not have as problem areas. We have an unaware coaching staff that does not put our players in the best position to win. We allow the defense to dictate who shoots the ball and where despite having overwhelming offensive weaponry. We do not even run off ball action really ever.

If we were playing with high effort but just missing some shots or playing with uncertainty I would be much more accepting of the performance on the year. It just isn't what is happening here. I watch a lot throughout the league and I do not see any team really shooting themselves in the foot game in and game out with unforced errors to the level we do. The Nets, for instance, ran actual action for Mikal late in the game and he killed us. They didn't post up Nic Claxton or have a player of Okogie or Goodwin's shooting ability in the game and shooting contested 3s with 15 seconds on the clock like we often do.

We are not losing because we lack chemistry. We are losing because the team as a collective unit does not play hard enough and has a really low IQ.

More evidence of this -- our best lineups include many of our new guys. Okogie, who is experienced, is one of our worst performers. The reality is Vogel is really bad and we basically need a complete team of 2 way players for this team to work, or at least all shooters to overcome the lack of motion on the offense overall.

[AtheJ415]

I've given up on this coaching staff offensively. If we're going to run the same sets that rely on our stars drawing a double or going one on one, we need to just start an all shooting lineup and pray we outscore teams. Booker, Allen, Beal, Durant, Nurkic. Bench: Gordon, Little, Metu, KBD (I do think his %'s return to form).

If Lee is back this season throw him into this. Just punish the crap out of anybody who doubles.

[bullsaficianado]

First game with the big 3 out there and they were in the game. Nets played better and Suns have to play and do better the next game. Suns had some players out to. I expected the Suns to win the game but the Nets have a solid team still with good players and not surprised they pulled out the W.

[Puff]

It seems like some of you have figured out what I said at the beginning of the season.

"Over Rated" is exactly who I thought he was, "Over Rated". When is this championship coach going to do make this mess look like a real team?

and

Matt with his buddy Isaiah has screwed this franchise for the foreseeable future. It brought back great memories watching Mikal and Cam, FCK. Thanks Matt. I hope you enjoy the end of the sellouts at Suns games. That is going to come to an end, sooner than you think. How are you going to pay BBB and company?

What happens when Nukic gets hurt, which he will? Who built this roster, oh the genius that was on staff when we passed on Doncic and was the boss when we passed Halliburton and traded for Durrant while selling out our present and future.

How much do you really think BBB (Bad Back Beal) is worth. I never watched him prior to the few games I have watched him with the Suns. Not impressed at all. We are paying this guy $50 Mil per year for the next 4 years. If we would have just kept CP3, we would have had a point guard cheaper this year that we could dumped this next off season. Now we have to find some scrub that no one else wants, to play the point. Book is doing an admirable job, but he needs help. That help is not going to come from BBB or "Over Rated", stop dreaming.

"Over Rated" has been fired 3 times already, this will be his 4th time. When will that happen?

[sashaturiaf]

Can't believe we have Nets fans coming here to gloat about us missing a Finney Smith to unlock our true form.

Yeah we're frustrating to watch now but let's exercise some patience. This was the FIRST game the big 3 has played together and Beal is clearly still playing into shape. Let's give this 20 games please, we will figure it out. You can't expect a team of new parts like this to look a well oiled machine in their first game together

[sunsbg]

Can't believe we have Nets fans coming here to gloat about us missing a Finney Smith to unlock our true form.

Yeah we're frustrating to watch now but let's exercise some patience. This was the FIRST game the big 3 has played together and Beal is clearly still playing into shape. Let's give this 20 games please, we will figure it out. You can't expect a team of new parts like this to look a well oiled machine in their first game together

What are the odds of Big 3 staying healthy for so long. Love how this board becomes so active when things are not going well.

[Puff]

Can't believe we have Nets fans coming here to gloat about us missing a Finney Smith to unlock our true form.

Yeah we're frustrating to watch now but let's exercise some patience. This was the FIRST game the big 3 has played together and Beal is clearly still playing into shape. Let's give this 20 games please, we will figure it out. You can't expect a team of new parts like this to look a well oiled machine in their first game together

We deserve to be pissed. This team did not need a $50 mill Bad Back along with a total over hall.

Matt is the problem. He is the one listening to Isaiah.

This team is unrecognizable with the exception of Book. He deserves better. Even KD seemed somewhere else tonight. What games have you watched this year that we seemed like a team, you really enjoy watching? We struggle every night. That is not supposed to happen to a championship contender.

We have lost to the worst teams in the league. I expect Monty has us circled on the Calendar. That could be his one and only win for the rest of the year.

[garrick]

The team`s game just doesn`t have any flow at all. Remember when Bridges and Cam Johnson played together with Book and CP3?
The game was just happening. Now, it is ISO and a total lack of communication and plays.
I agree that the team is not pleasant to watch and the main reason is the coaches.

When you rebuild the team so drastically this is what happens.

Players are still feeling each other out and the lineups have been constantly changing so no one really feels comfortable right now on this team. The best teams have played together for a number of years and you don't have massive roster changes.

Look at the more dominant teams in recent history, GSW, 90's Bulls, SAS, Miami Heatles, LBJ Cavs.

These teams had very stable rosters and kept the bulk of the roster the same, they did do minor changes and additions but nothing like what the Suns did to remove every last player from the 2021 championship run.

Not to this extent. These are not chemistry errors. The things killing us are effort plays, tossing it directly to the opposition (not anticipating a cut or something like that which would be a chemistry issue, but we are literally just tossing the ball to the opposition or carelessly throwing it around without looking, or my favorite -- iverson cut out for the pass to the wing while seeing a closing defender and being too lazy to come back to the ball and then shrugging our shoulders or clapping our hands while the opposition dunks on the other end). We are also asking guys to perform in areas they have proven incapable throughout their careers (Eubanks running point C or chasing around perimeter players at the 3 point line, Okogie shooting crunch time 3s, Goodwin doing the same, etc.). Point being, these are errors entirely in our control that most elite college teams do not have as problem areas. We have an unaware coaching staff that does not put our players in the best position to win. We allow the defense to dictate who shoots the ball and where despite having overwhelming offensive weaponry. We do not even run off ball action really ever.

If we were playing with high effort but just missing some shots or playing with uncertainty I would be much more accepting of the performance on the year. It just isn't what is happening here. I watch a lot throughout the league and I do not see any team really shooting themselves in the foot game in and game out with unforced errors to the level we do. The Nets, for instance, ran actual action for Mikal late in the game and he killed us. They didn't post up Nic Claxton or have a player of Okogie or Goodwin's shooting ability in the game and shooting contested 3s with 15 seconds on the clock like we often do.

We are not losing because we lack chemistry. We are losing because the team as a collective unit does not play hard enough and has a really low IQ.

More evidence of this -- our best lineups include many of our new guys. Okogie, who is experienced, is one of our worst performers. The reality is Vogel is really bad and we basically need a complete team of 2 way players for this team to work, or at least all shooters to overcome the lack of motion on the offense overall.

Some players I kind of agree about the lack of effort on defense at least for EG who has been pretty bad on defense but he hasn't really been a defensive stopper for quite some time now and Nurkic is just a liability even if he tries his best.

I think a lack of knowing what to do is leading to some timidity or just silly plays which might be interpreted as not giving enough effort, like Watanabe is very active but he just seems to not know where to be at times and he & KBD have played much worse than they are capable of playing.