Game 25: New York Knicks (13-10) @ Phoenix Suns (13-11) | Friday | 8:00PM

[KdoubleDees23]

No Monty and DA left to blame for those 4Q collapses. It's on Vogel and Point-Book to figure it out. Funny it didn't work out for anybody. Still a two year window probably, but Suns look just as mediocre as the Nets so far while Monty and Ayton are in terrible situations.

Keep telling yourself that your fellatio bro DA would change any of this. He has DominAyted his team to 6 wins moron.

..... and Monty has what 2 wins this year? I'm as peeved about this as the next guy but some of you say some really stupid sh-.

Lol calm down clown. I didn't say they will change anything. Never been a Monty defender. Ayton I have defended against stupid haters like you. Are you still following him on the Blazers ? I'm not. Anyway, point stands it's only Book left from the teams that collapsed in 4Qs or whole deciding playoff games. It's on him as PG running the show now and obviously the coach to figure it out and prevent it in the future.

To be honest, I think if Ayton did stay he would clog up the middle, and still be where he was last year, and we would be a better team, but not by much.

Beal was the biggest mistake the Suns made! He is made of glass, and has truly never been a winner. Suns should have went after a PG that could help the Suns

[Frank Lee]

Are you sure it was worse??? (To sunsbg)

[sunsbg]

Are you sure it was worse??? (To sunsbg)

The roster was worse obviously. CP3 didn't even play in those wins, Ayton was only physically there. Healthy Beal, Nurk, Allen is a big upgrade. Whether we can count on them staying healthy is a different story.

[sunsfan1o1]

I don't know who needs to take a step back between Vogel and Young but one of them has to because **** just isn't working. There's plenty of talent, guys with the right mindset and a common goal but the way we've been playing just isn't working the way we planned/anticipated/expected. But we can't just keep doing the same thing, can't keep using up full 24s possessions and end up with no shot or a bad shot, can't keep letting scorers into the paint for easy lay ups, can't keep running such a slow paced offense, can't keep being so damn casual with simple passes leading to turnovers and we can't keep allowing opposing players to grab offensive rebounds after offensive rebounds.

We're like a warship with all the best weapons you can have but this ship has so many holes and a seemingly faulty rudder that we're slowly sinking and we don't seem to have any idea where we're going. It's still 24 games into the season but right now teams know in order to beat us, they have to play the passing lanes, they have to gang rebound and they just have to be within striking distance to pull off a 4th quarter heist. Teams knows this is who we are right now and unless we make some different coaching decisions, this team isn't going very far even if we make the playoffs.

BOOKER CANT PLAY PG. That’s the suns problem and nothing else. He’s awful.

[KLEON]

Big 3: 0-2
Book/KD: 7-3
Book/Beal: 1-0
Beal/KD: 1-2
KD: 2-4
Book: 2-1
Beal: 0-0

Total: 13-12

Its a bit unfear to count the big 3 0-2 record because of Beal playing only 4 mins in the Knicks game but you are right

[schnakenpopanz]

If you rely on health when you construct your roster, you are gambling.

[grumpysaddle]

I'm on board with hoping PJ Tucker gets bought out so we can hopefully bring him in. Don't even care that he's old and declining, he'd at least get on people's asses for lack of effort.

[KLEON]

Just let Nurk play the point

[Puff]

What happens to this team, when Nurk gets hurt?

Yeah, that question is for you James Jones. Is Bol Bol your answer?

Gimme me a break and resign. You have totally destroyed this franchise for the foreseeable future, in record time.

We have the 2d toughest schedule in the league remaining.

It is going to get worse before it gets better.

[Saberestar]

So....are you all STILL buying the BS Ishbia did??

I don't think anybody destroyed a team as fast and as bad as this dude. Record time.

Ishbia has been amazing for the Suns.

He has done a ton of great things for the organization, you are just talking about a couple of trades that you didn't like it but his moves are way deeper than that.

[ArksNetsSince99]

What happens to this team, when Nurk gets hurt?

Yeah, that question is for you James Jones. Is Bol Bol your answer?

Gimme me a break and resign. You have totally destroyed this franchise for the foreseeable future, in record time.

We have the 2d toughest schedule in the league remaining.

It is going to get worse before it gets better.

Nurk can’t get hurt

He is way bigger part of your team than most anticipated before the trade , he is solid

[Frank Lee]

You forgot the nonchalanting ‘ho hum’ Saber


Gotta agree with your deeper moves theory… If you’re implying that we may be sunk for the next three or four years

[SunsRback4Good]

What happens to this team, when Nurk gets hurt?

Yeah, that question is for you James Jones. Is Bol Bol your answer?

Gimme me a break and resign. You have totally destroyed this franchise for the foreseeable future, in record time.

We have the 2d toughest schedule in the league remaining.

It is going to get worse before it gets better.

Nurk can’t get hurt

He is way bigger part of your team than most anticipated before the trade , he is solid

Injuries & father time are currently undefeated. Never say never.

[lilfishi22]

I don't know who needs to take a step back between Vogel and Young but one of them has to because **** just isn't working. There's plenty of talent, guys with the right mindset and a common goal but the way we've been playing just isn't working the way we planned/anticipated/expected. But we can't just keep doing the same thing, can't keep using up full 24s possessions and end up with no shot or a bad shot, can't keep letting scorers into the paint for easy lay ups, can't keep running such a slow paced offense, can't keep being so damn casual with simple passes leading to turnovers and we can't keep allowing opposing players to grab offensive rebounds after offensive rebounds.

We're like a warship with all the best weapons you can have but this ship has so many holes and a seemingly faulty rudder that we're slowly sinking and we don't seem to have any idea where we're going. It's still 24 games into the season but right now teams know in order to beat us, they have to play the passing lanes, they have to gang rebound and they just have to be within striking distance to pull off a 4th quarter heist. Teams knows this is who we are right now and unless we make some different coaching decisions, this team isn't going very far even if we make the playoffs.

BOOKER CANT PLAY PG. That’s the suns problem and nothing else. He’s awful.

That's not true. He has a career turnover average of 3.1 per game and 4.8 assist per game. This season he has increased his assist to 8.3 per game while his turnover average is STILL at 3.1. He's 6th in the league in APG and 5th in the league in AST%. He's doing very well as PG and he passes the eye test. He's not the best PG but he's in the top 10.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/29/23980278/devin-booker-passing-assists-phoenix-suns

“It’s good to have our point guard back,” Durant—who’s currently boasting his highest scoring average in a decade—said after Booker’s return in a recent win against Minnesota. Positions are increasingly an arbitrary conceit, but it’s more than clear that Booker can conduct elite offense by himself. He directly makes life easier for everyone around him, organizes sets, manipulates defenders from the top of the floor, and makes every big decision.

He’s either withstood or demolished pretty much every defensive coverage that’s even semi-regularly deployed in the NBA, be it a box-and-one against Golden State or the barrage of blitzes that come 30 feet from the basket. Beal will eventually enter the equation as another knockdown shooter who can make life easier for Booker by simultaneously decreasing some ballhandling duties while spacing the floor better than anyone on the team (not named Durant or Eric Gordon).

In the meantime, to see Booker be this effective right out the gate, without Beal, surrounded by a brand-new supporting cast, and under a new head coach, is petrifying and awesome. “We don’t know each other,” Booker said after Game 1. One month later, with so much still to learn, Phoenix’s offensive ceiling is only theoretical; Booker’s steady, albeit sudden, transformation into a top-shelf floor general is the biggest reason.

The problem isn't that he can't play PG

The problem is that he's better and we're better with Book as a SG as he was over the last few years next to CP3. But we don't have anyone that can relieve him of PG duty

[lilfishi22]

I'm on board with hoping PJ Tucker gets bought out so we can hopefully bring him in. Don't even care that he's old and declining, he'd at least get on people's asses for lack of effort.

Give me a guy who will box out, versatile enough to defend 3 to 5 and will call out and keep guys accountable if our coaching staff won't. If there's a better available option, I'm all ears but I certainly would strongly consider PJ if he's bought out

[sunsbum]

It's a real shame we didn't get Aaron Gordon years ago when he was repeatedly rumored. He'd help a lot right now

CAUSE AARON GORDON IS THE VOICE OF TOUGHNESS, AM I RIGHT BOYS!?

He is the voice of rebounding and defense, and has never been accused of not playing hard. 3 things none of our wanna be tough guys are capable of doing.

easy to play armchair gm

[AtheJ415]

CAUSE AARON GORDON IS THE VOICE OF TOUGHNESS, AM I RIGHT BOYS!?

He is the voice of rebounding and defense, and has never been accused of not playing hard. 3 things none of our wanna be tough guys are capable of doing.

easy to play armchair gm

It kind of is. If anybody on this board was GM a few years ago we'd have Haliburton and would be in the best position in the NBA. I don't sit here criticizing after the fact. I criticize this team as all of it is happening. What James Jones has done to this team is inexcusable. He better hope they turn it around and win a title because if we do not win a title or even make the finals after that KD trade that is HORRIFIC

[phnart]

Unfortunately, the team has a big pile of opportunity and a small pile of brains and guts to get them to wherever the Suns are going to go. The latest Beal injury is exactly what those of us who have been following basketball for a long time were (and are) expecting. for me, I expect this to be just another in a long line of the "Big 3" missing time. The team will never get a chance to gel.

It really sucks. I feel for Mat Ishbia, much in the way I feel for fictional characters in movies or TV shows I like when bad things happen to them. I am bummed for a second and then turn my attention to the real parts of my life. I do feel for Ishbia, though, a little bit. I think his heart and wallet are in the right place and he certainly seems to say the right things. I've tried to make a splash at different times during my professional and artistic careers and sometimes it has worked really well and others it didn't, so I get it.
He made a splash and ended up hamstringing the team for the next three or four years pretty darn significantly.

I don't think Frank Vogel has the team listening to him. Maybe he never really had a chance. This team seems so clueless when it counts and doesn't really have much of a counterpunch when other teams make adjustments. That gel, again, is missing and maybe there is no coach, really, who could get it to work. They just don't have the horses on defense and the role guys are not hitting shots consistently enough to keep teams honest when it comes to KD and Book.

There will be a decent amount of wins this year. When Booker is healthy, he can get you wins. Same for KD. We'll see with Beal when it is his turn to lead and I hope he gets a chance. It won't be enough, though, to satisfy the beast Ishbia created inside all of us who were willing to look past the average number of games the "Big 3" play per year and hope this would finally be the year for our beloved Suns.

We'll be like drug dealers getting high on our own supply, though, when the Suns beat a good team. We'll start to believe in our business model and think, maybe, things are going to turn around now. They won't. Before too long, someone will be wearing a walking boot. I haven't even mentioned Nurkic. In spite of his slow feet, he's been a really nice surprise. They are equally screwed, though, if he goes down for a bit and statistics point to that happening along the way.

Let's stomp on the Wizards, though, today. Stomp'em good! We can keep hope alive.

[sunsfan1o1]

I don't know who needs to take a step back between Vogel and Young but one of them has to because **** just isn't working. There's plenty of talent, guys with the right mindset and a common goal but the way we've been playing just isn't working the way we planned/anticipated/expected. But we can't just keep doing the same thing, can't keep using up full 24s possessions and end up with no shot or a bad shot, can't keep letting scorers into the paint for easy lay ups, can't keep running such a slow paced offense, can't keep being so damn casual with simple passes leading to turnovers and we can't keep allowing opposing players to grab offensive rebounds after offensive rebounds.

We're like a warship with all the best weapons you can have but this ship has so many holes and a seemingly faulty rudder that we're slowly sinking and we don't seem to have any idea where we're going. It's still 24 games into the season but right now teams know in order to beat us, they have to play the passing lanes, they have to gang rebound and they just have to be within striking distance to pull off a 4th quarter heist. Teams knows this is who we are right now and unless we make some different coaching decisions, this team isn't going very far even if we make the playoffs.

BOOKER CANT PLAY PG. That’s the suns problem and nothing else. He’s awful.

That's not true. He has a career turnover average of 3.1 per game and 4.8 assist per game. This season he has increased his assist to 8.3 per game while his turnover average is STILL at 3.1. He's 6th in the league in APG and 5th in the league in AST%. He's doing very well as PG and he passes the eye test. He's not the best PG but he's in the top 10.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/29/23980278/devin-booker-passing-assists-phoenix-suns

“It’s good to have our point guard back,” Durant—who’s currently boasting his highest scoring average in a decade—said after Booker’s return in a recent win against Minnesota. Positions are increasingly an arbitrary conceit, but it’s more than clear that Booker can conduct elite offense by himself. He directly makes life easier for everyone around him, organizes sets, manipulates defenders from the top of the floor, and makes every big decision.

He’s either withstood or demolished pretty much every defensive coverage that’s even semi-regularly deployed in the NBA, be it a box-and-one against Golden State or the barrage of blitzes that come 30 feet from the basket. Beal will eventually enter the equation as another knockdown shooter who can make life easier for Booker by simultaneously decreasing some ballhandling duties while spacing the floor better than anyone on the team (not named Durant or Eric Gordon).

In the meantime, to see Booker be this effective right out the gate, without Beal, surrounded by a brand-new supporting cast, and under a new head coach, is petrifying and awesome. “We don’t know each other,” Booker said after Game 1. One month later, with so much still to learn, Phoenix’s offensive ceiling is only theoretical; Booker’s steady, albeit sudden, transformation into a top-shelf floor general is the biggest reason.

The problem isn't that he can't play PG

The problem is that he's better and we're better with Book as a SG as he was over the last few years next to CP3. But we don't have anyone that can relieve him of PG duty

I’m not impressed by numbers. I watch the games. He misses wide open guys because he’s not a good point guard.
One play for example against the Knicks. At the end of the first half he missed a wide open Little and passed it to Nurkic.
Thanks to Nurkic being a better pg than Booker he passed it to the extremely wide open Little who hit the 3 to end the half.

Not to mention Beal just standing around watching Booker that 1st game. He took only 9 shots thanks to his point guard.

Then watch KD just standing around watching Booker play alone. It’s just bad basketball.

There’s no ball movement. No 2 man gameplay with him and KD like Jokic and Murray. It’s just Booker dominating the ball and passing if he feels like it.

Booker just doesn’t have what it takes.

[SunsRback4Good]

BOOKER CANT PLAY PG. That’s the suns problem and nothing else. He’s awful.

That's not true. He has a career turnover average of 3.1 per game and 4.8 assist per game. This season he has increased his assist to 8.3 per game while his turnover average is STILL at 3.1. He's 6th in the league in APG and 5th in the league in AST%. He's doing very well as PG and he passes the eye test. He's not the best PG but he's in the top 10.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2023/11/29/23980278/devin-booker-passing-assists-phoenix-suns

“It’s good to have our point guard back,” Durant—who’s currently boasting his highest scoring average in a decade—said after Booker’s return in a recent win against Minnesota. Positions are increasingly an arbitrary conceit, but it’s more than clear that Booker can conduct elite offense by himself. He directly makes life easier for everyone around him, organizes sets, manipulates defenders from the top of the floor, and makes every big decision.

He’s either withstood or demolished pretty much every defensive coverage that’s even semi-regularly deployed in the NBA, be it a box-and-one against Golden State or the barrage of blitzes that come 30 feet from the basket. Beal will eventually enter the equation as another knockdown shooter who can make life easier for Booker by simultaneously decreasing some ballhandling duties while spacing the floor better than anyone on the team (not named Durant or Eric Gordon).

In the meantime, to see Booker be this effective right out the gate, without Beal, surrounded by a brand-new supporting cast, and under a new head coach, is petrifying and awesome. “We don’t know each other,” Booker said after Game 1. One month later, with so much still to learn, Phoenix’s offensive ceiling is only theoretical; Booker’s steady, albeit sudden, transformation into a top-shelf floor general is the biggest reason.

The problem isn't that he can't play PG

The problem is that he's better and we're better with Book as a SG as he was over the last few years next to CP3. But we don't have anyone that can relieve him of PG duty

I’m not impressed by numbers. I watch the games. He misses wide open guys because he’s not a good point guard.
One play for example against the Knicks. At the end of the first half he missed a wide open Little and passed it to Nurkic.
Thanks to Nurkic being a better pg than Booker he passed it to the extremely wide open Little who hit the 3 to end the half.

Not to mention Beal just standing around watching Booker that 1st game. He took only 9 shots thanks to his point guard.

Then watch KD just standing around watching Booker play alone. It’s just bad basketball.

There’s no ball movement. No 2 man gameplay with him and KD like Jokic and Murray. It’s just Booker dominating the ball and passing if he feels like it.

Booker just doesn’t have what it takes.

Do you think it’s time to trade Booker to Chicago for LaVine and Caruso? That way we have a Booker 2.0 and a pg who can find open guys while playing good defense.