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Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

bardobeing wrote:Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

A lot of people liked him but there were quite a few who didn't. Though I think his biggest weaknesses were rotations and waiting too long to call timeouts.

Chris Paul is who changed the team around. Monty was loved by the team, but I don't know that he would have done much without Paul. That being said, most think Vogel is worse. Though we don't have Paul. Paul is washed but if we had the Paul of 2-3 years ago we'd probably be in in the top 4 in the west, if not #1.

Sounds like Pistons Killian Hayes is Suns Landry Shamet. I think there was quote about Thompsons being worthy to marry Monty's daughters, but looks like Ausar is now off the list.

sunsbg wrote:Sounds like Pistons Killian Hayes is Suns Landry Shamet. I think there was quote about Thompsons being worthy to marry Monty's daughters, but looks like Ausar is now off the list.

According to Monty Williams around 23.7% of NBA players are currently worthy to marry his daughters. It’s a bit worrying, but intriguing to say the least. I don’t recall any other coach repeat that statement quit to often like Monty Williams does. Having said that, me being broke and not in the NBA disqualifies me from ever being worthy of dating his daughter.

bwgood77 wrote:

bardobeing wrote:Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

A lot of people liked him but there were quite a few who didn't. Though I think his biggest weaknesses were rotations and waiting too long to call timeouts.

Chris Paul is who changed the team around. Monty was loved by the team, but I don't know that he would have done much without Paul. That being said, most think Vogel is worse. Though we don't have Paul. Paul is washed but if we had the Paul of 2-3 years ago we'd probably be in in the top 4 in the west, if not #1.

You should tag Puff, Jdiddy701, and sunsbum in this thread hahaha. They loved Monty...and are also some of the dumber posters in RealGM. So many guys here defended him for sooooo long and were quite wrong...none of them will show up in this thread however.

As to the Piston fan, I feel your pain brother. I had to tell all these guys in here about Monty for years, only to face attacks and ridicule. It was only after that last playoff series, he started to lose popularity in our forum.

That said, I don't think he is THIS bad. Part of the issue is his obsession with Hayes-which happens to him. He get tunnel vision for certain players and ignores others. I the answer is to trade either Ivey or preferably Hayes. That will streamline the guard position. Adding some vet leadership and some shooters would be a Godsend to your team as well.

Tavares Montgomery Williams (that's his real name btw) leans on his vets, so it'd be nice if he got around to acquiring some legit ones. You seem to have alot of bigs so maybe moving 1 of them is a good idea as well. Tavares needs to have his hand forced sometimes to make an adjustment and I think that will help.

Hopefully things get better for you guys and you can get the #1 pick without having to break any losing records. Good luck.

Slim Charless wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

bardobeing wrote:Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

A lot of people liked him but there were quite a few who didn't. Though I think his biggest weaknesses were rotations and waiting too long to call timeouts.

Chris Paul is who changed the team around. Monty was loved by the team, but I don't know that he would have done much without Paul. That being said, most think Vogel is worse. Though we don't have Paul. Paul is washed but if we had the Paul of 2-3 years ago we'd probably be in in the top 4 in the west, if not #1.

You should tag Puff, Jdiddy701, and sunsbum in this thread hahaha. They loved Monty...and are also some of the dumber posters in RealGM. So many guys here defended him for sooooo long and were quite wrong...none of them will show up in this thread however.

As to the Piston fan, I feel your pain brother. I had to tell all these guys in here about Monty for years, only to face attacks and ridicule. It was only after that last playoff series, he started to lose popularity in our forum.

That said, I don't think he is THIS bad. Part of the issue is his obsession with Hayes-which happens to him. He get tunnel vision for certain players and ignores others. I the answer is to trade either Ivey or preferably Hayes. That will streamline the guard position. Adding some vet leadership and some shooters would be a Godsend to your team as well.

Tavares Montgomery Williams (that's his real name btw) leans on his vets, so it'd be nice if he got around to acquiring some legit ones. You seem to have alot of bigs so maybe moving 1 of them is a good idea as well. Tavares needs to have his hand forced sometimes to make an adjustment and I think that will help.

Hopefully things get better for you guys and you can get the #1 pick without having to break any losing records. Good luck.

At Least we were watchable last year with Monty and CP3.

This year we have been unwatchable, after Monty's and CP3's departure. I hope you are enjoying the Suns this year. You seem to have departed the scene since you got the wish you desired, Monty's firing.

Booker had was a key reason why we got blown out the last two years in elimination games. He is not showing up in the 4th quarter this year on most occasions either. Is he the real problem? I do not want to think that but the numbers he produces in the biggest games makes you wonder.

We should have hired one of the other two "Championship" coaches that were available (Nick Nurse or Mike Budenholzer). I expect that they did not buy what Car Salesman Matt Ishbia was selling.

I expect that you are very happy that Monty is gone. Unfortunately, he went from one **** show to another. The best teams almost always have the best ownership and best GM's. The Pistons and Suns are lacking in both areas. Can you admit that?

While we are at it, what is wrong with your anointed genius in Atlanta. Quin is 12 and 15. I thought he was the 2nd coming. It does appear that your other boy Udoka is doing well but not great in Houston 13 and 12. I am not sure either would be doing any better in Phoenix.

It appears that the problem in Detroit and Phoenix are with the two most coveted players, Booker and Cunningham. They both are turnover machines. Their stats appear to be great but both teams are struggling. Cunningham is horrible in fantasy basketball. Booker is far from the best.

I hope both teams turn it around, but I certainly have my doubts.

bardobeing wrote:Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

He's a generic brand Tony Dungy.

Nice man, but extremely mediocre basketball coach.

Puff wrote:

Slim Charless wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
A lot of people liked him but there were quite a few who didn't. Though I think his biggest weaknesses were rotations and waiting too long to call timeouts.

Chris Paul is who changed the team around. Monty was loved by the team, but I don't know that he would have done much without Paul. That being said, most think Vogel is worse. Though we don't have Paul. Paul is washed but if we had the Paul of 2-3 years ago we'd probably be in in the top 4 in the west, if not #1.

You should tag Puff, Jdiddy701, and sunsbum in this thread hahaha. They loved Monty...and are also some of the dumber posters in RealGM. So many guys here defended him for sooooo long and were quite wrong...none of them will show up in this thread however.

As to the Piston fan, I feel your pain brother. I had to tell all these guys in here about Monty for years, only to face attacks and ridicule. It was only after that last playoff series, he started to lose popularity in our forum.

That said, I don't think he is THIS bad. Part of the issue is his obsession with Hayes-which happens to him. He get tunnel vision for certain players and ignores others. I the answer is to trade either Ivey or preferably Hayes. That will streamline the guard position. Adding some vet leadership and some shooters would be a Godsend to your team as well.

Tavares Montgomery Williams (that's his real name btw) leans on his vets, so it'd be nice if he got around to acquiring some legit ones. You seem to have alot of bigs so maybe moving 1 of them is a good idea as well. Tavares needs to have his hand forced sometimes to make an adjustment and I think that will help.

Hopefully things get better for you guys and you can get the #1 pick without having to break any losing records. Good luck.

At Least we were watchable last year with Monty and CP3.

This year we have been unwatchable, after Monty's and CP3's departure. I hope you are enjoying the Suns this year. You seem to have departed the scene since you got the wish you desired, Monty's firing.

Booker had was a key reason why we got blown out the last two years in elimination games. He is not showing up in the 4th quarter this year on most occasions either. Is he the real problem? I do not want to think that but the numbers he produces in the biggest games makes you wonder.

We should have hired one of the other two "Championship" coaches that were available (Nick Nurse or Mike Budenholzer). I expect that they did not buy what Car Salesman Matt Ishbia was selling.

I expect that you are very happy that Monty is gone. Unfortunately, he went from one **** show to another. The best teams almost always have the best ownership and best GM's. The Pistons and Suns are lacking in both areas. Can you admit that?

While we are at it, what is wrong with your anointed genius in Atlanta. Quin is 12 and 15. I thought he was the 2nd coming. It does appear that your other boy Udoka is doing well but not great in Houston 13 and 12. I am not sure either would be doing any better in Phoenix.

It appears that the problem in Detroit and Phoenix are with the two most coveted players, Booker and Cunningham. They both are turnover machines. Their stats appear to be great but both teams are struggling. Cunningham is horrible in fantasy basketball. Booker is far from the best.

I hope both teams turn it around, but I certainly have my doubts.

Ime might win COTY if the Rockets make the playoffs. Quinn would be a infinitely better coach than Tavares or even Vogel-who I like. Either coach would've gotten us to the Finals with last year's team, that much I'm sure of.

Slim Charless wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

bardobeing wrote:Very frustrated Piston fan here asking for some insight on Monty Williams. I was very excited when we seemingly pulled off a coup and convinced him to coach our young team.

But his lineups and rotations are seemingly nonsensical. He lost me when he benched Ausar Thompson. I get that Ausar currently has no jump shot. But he does just about everything else at a very high level. He has a very high bball IQ, has great instincts, vision, athleticism, plays excellent defense and it seems to me a halfway decent coach would easily find a was to make the most of his talents. And he insists on playing Killian Hayes way too much (who has a good game 1 out of every 5 or 6), and starting Stewart - who can hit one or two 3s per game - but it looks like Monty thinks he's a stretch-4. The team has zero spacing, meaning Cade gets double and triple teamed.

Did you all win despite Monty? Is there a long-term method to his madness? He really seems clueless so far.

I'm terrified that Cade is going to take his first opportunity to GTFO if something doesn't change and SOON!

A lot of people liked him but there were quite a few who didn't. Though I think his biggest weaknesses were rotations and waiting too long to call timeouts.

Chris Paul is who changed the team around. Monty was loved by the team, but I don't know that he would have done much without Paul. That being said, most think Vogel is worse. Though we don't have Paul. Paul is washed but if we had the Paul of 2-3 years ago we'd probably be in in the top 4 in the west, if not #1.

You should tag Puff, Jdiddy701, and sunsbum in this thread hahaha. They loved Monty...and are also some of the dumber posters in RealGM. So many guys here defended him for sooooo long and were quite wrong...none of them will show up in this thread however.

As to the Piston fan, I feel your pain brother. I had to tell all these guys in here about Monty for years, only to face attacks and ridicule. It was only after that last playoff series, he started to lose popularity in our forum.

That said, I don't think he is THIS bad. Part of the issue is his obsession with Hayes-which happens to him. He get tunnel vision for certain players and ignores others. I the answer is to trade either Ivey or preferably Hayes. That will streamline the guard position. Adding some vet leadership and some shooters would be a Godsend to your team as well.

Tavares Montgomery Williams (that's his real name btw) leans on his vets, so it'd be nice if he got around to acquiring some legit ones. You seem to have alot of bigs so maybe moving 1 of them is a good idea as well. Tavares needs to have his hand forced sometimes to make an adjustment and I think that will help.

Hopefully things get better for you guys and you can get the #1 pick without having to break any losing records. Good luck.

There is no need to call people dumb. Personal attacks break the terms of service, and it's not the first time so consider this a warning. I'm sure others would like to call you names at points but they show more respect, so please do so yourself.

Williams is a great people guy and would make a nice addition to a team's front office. As a coach, he's not that guy.

We've all been incredibly frustrated with his lack of meaningful rotations, his refusal to call or use time outs to break momentum, and his deer-in-the-headlights stare of disbelief when his ineffective strategy doesn't work and his teams lose.

I knew a change of scenery wasn't going to make a difference and whatever team he went to would immediately be worse. Looks like I was right. The immense overpay by DET just blew my mind and still does.

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Monty is not a horrible coach but he wasn't worthy of that massive salary he got.

That Pistons roster is just really terrible though you guys need to get a trade for some veterans. Either that or just go all in on your tank and hope this team hits a home run in the draft.

Alas … appears Moronty lives on

Crazy he is the highest paid coach in the league. Agree with Puffer…. The better teams start with good ownership /front office / GM … an area where phnx has been struggling

I’ll take Hayes for Little and KBD please.

sunsfan1o1 wrote:I’ll take Hayes for Little and KBD please.

Monty has been quoted as saying that Killian Hayes is the kinda guy he wants for his daughter (seriously lol). So we all know what means. The Pistons are more likely to trade Cade Cunningham than Hayes. Too bad we shot our load for KD as I'd love to have a Cade/Booker pairing for the next decade.

Slim Charless wrote:

sunsfan1o1 wrote:I’ll take Hayes for Little and KBD please.

Monty has been quoted as saying that Killian Hayes is the kinda guy he wants for his daughter (seriously lol). So we all know what means. The Pistons are more likely to trade Cade Cunningham than Hayes. Too bad we shot our load for KD as I'd love to have a Cade/Booker pairing for the next decade.

I think the pistons management are regretting Monty Williams from what I read. They’re upset about the Ivey benching and the losing streak.

I think they trade away Hayes and the other guys who he won’t stop playing to force him to play who they want

sunsfan1o1 wrote:

Slim Charless wrote:

sunsfan1o1 wrote:I’ll take Hayes for Little and KBD please.

Monty has been quoted as saying that Killian Hayes is the kinda guy he wants for his daughter (seriously lol). So we all know what means. The Pistons are more likely to trade Cade Cunningham than Hayes. Too bad we shot our load for KD as I'd love to have a Cade/Booker pairing for the next decade.

I think the pistons management are regretting Monty Williams from what I read. They’re upset about the Ivey benching and the losing streak.

I think they trade away Hayes and the other guys who he won’t stop playing to force him to play who they want

That's probably a good idea. Like I told the DET fan in here, they need to force Monty's hand on these things. Trading Killian is a good start. Hell, I'd take him on this team. He can play D and at least play PG at the basic level-which is an improvement from where we currently sit. Move Booker back to SG until Beal gets back, then figure it out from there.

Bill Simmons made an interesting point of them trading Cade to the Spurs for a boatload of picks and trying to land like 2 top 5 picks this year. I probably wouldn't do it if was them but I'd think long and hard about it.

Monty is awful and was extremely overrated here. Chris Paul should have been given his COY award. That said, Vogel isn't any better.

Biff wrote:Monty is awful and was extremely overrated here. Chris Paul should have been given his COY award. That said, Vogel isn't any better.

Yup.

CP3 was the real coach of that team - it was so blatantly obvious.