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2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#321 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:41 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Revived wrote:James Jones has been with the Suns either as GM or Director of Player Personnel for 2 of the worst decisions the franchise has maybe ever made in drafting Luka over Ayton and drafting Jalen Smith over Tyrese Haliburton.

For him to keep his GM job while there are actual experienced GMs who have built title winning dynasties available like Bob Myers is just insane.

I get it that James Jones isn’t at fault for the KD/Beal trade. Matt Ishbia stupid dumass forced those moves. However, James Jones is not the guy to get us out of this mess we’re in.


....Sarver forced the Ayton over Luka move at the draft. It's amazing how little that geta brought up. I'm no fan of JJ either, but this isn't his fault he had pushy bosses.

What is his fault is not doing a better job of handling these trades.


I'm actually glad that someone else here has the objective clarity to see through this aside from me. Not to rehash old sour grapes scenarios, because I didn't really want Luka anyways, not only because of his whiny self serving, petulant diva attitude. But moreover because I knew that much like you're seeing now, You just can't have multiple ball dominant volume scoring "me first" alpha options trying to share one ball effectively. And there was no way that Booker was going to concede his role as the face of the franchise to Donkeydic. But back to the subject of the discussion. Sarver in multiple interviews and also through statements from NBA pundits and former front office staff always made the final call on decisions. Sarver also had U of A alumni and boosters that were pushing him to choose Ayton due to his U of A ties himself and Aytons' being an Arizona Wildcat product! It was just good business promotion for the university to have a #1 pick come from there.

However, as it pertains to Jones, it was his own self admitted not valuing the draft that has allowed him to perennially leave us without any young talent. And despite having complete and total leverage over the Washington (Beal) trade, He aggressively/willingly gave up too much value in the deal considering the glaring implied risks, well documented and extensive injury history, and cap killing contract salary. Not to mention the publically known intent of the Wizards ownership and front offices' aggressive intent to move him. All those considerations (implied risks for recieving team) along with the clear and absolute leverage in this situation, means that Beals' value estimate should've easily been capped at 2-3 first in total or maybe two firsts and then two 2nds........FULL STOP! Not 3 1sts and then 6-7 2nds (at .50% value of a first) equating to another 3 1sts in cumulative value. Especially in correlation of compounding value under the new CBA. But I can't ever trust Jones to make good decisions much less that he'll someday understand the value of the draft after he puts out articles such as this:
https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/phoenix-suns-james-jones-devin-booker-espn

Jones is just a terrible and useless puppet Gm for ignorant self engrandizing, clout chasing rich boy meddling owners that need a shield/ scapegoat for their horrible impulse ego driven decisions. NO legitimate or professional self respecting GM would tolerate such workplace conditions! And Jones had a dismally pathetic body of work even beyond that as well. It's Jones decisions to eagerly attach every last asset we had in lopsided losing trades that have put us in this hopeless situation just as much as the ownership! And again, I track that careless willingness to do so back to his own admission in those articles. Jones absolutely has to go regardless of potential azz hat 2.0 for our new owner! :nod:
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#322 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:43 pm

Calvin Klein wrote:
Revived wrote:James Jones has been with the Suns either as GM or Director of Player Personnel for 2 of the worst decisions the franchise has maybe ever made in drafting Ayton over Luka and drafting Jalen Smith over Tyrese Haliburton.

For him to keep his GM job while there are actual experienced GMs who have built title winning dynasties available like Bob Myers is just insane.

I get it that James Jones isn’t at fault for the KD/Beal trade. Matt Ishbia stupid dumass forced those moves. However, James Jones is not the guy to get us out of this mess we’re in.


I guess Ishbia is fine with JJ as long as he does what Ishbia wants. Otherwise he will be gone alongside Vogel.

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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#323 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:47 pm

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter

Does anybody else see this potential resemblance here with Ishbia as the NBA owners' version of
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#324 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:00 pm

Calvin Klein wrote:
Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


How was this not OBVIOUS to everybody? I don't get it. I'm in **** Argentina and I could clearly see what this guy is about. You just hear him in interviews and you can feel it.

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Ishbia discussing his big clout chasing impulsive decisions now that the season is over disappointingly! Ishbia just stikes me as every comedic character that Rick moranus played. But with a rich boy mentality and "little man" complex. It'd almost be funny if it wasn't so very sad! :-?
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#325 » by Mulhollanddrive » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:13 pm

Am I mad or is Mike Dantoni the perfect fit for this roster.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#326 » by Saberestar » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:16 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Am I mad or is Mike Dantoni the perfect fit for this roster.

He is 73 years old.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#327 » by KLEON » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:32 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Am I mad or is Mike Dantoni the perfect fit for this roster.

Been thinking the same thing since yesterday. He's the perfect fit along with a defensive coach.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#328 » by Hitachi77 » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:38 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Am I mad or is Mike Dantoni the perfect fit for this roster.

He is 73 years old.


Well he doesn’t look it. I was shocked to see he is only 3 years younger than Pop.

He’s a great fit. The team needs to runnnnnn. Also him returning to Phoenix is almost poetic. And again, he did well in Houston before CP3 got there.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#329 » by Hitachi77 » Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:48 pm

It’s not unheard of at all for a coaching to make a massive difference. Think Jackson -> Kerr and Dantoni -> Porter -> Gentry. We had flashes of brilliance this year. What we need is consistency and for this team that starts on offense, being efficient and limiting turnovers.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#330 » by Slim Charless » Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:25 pm

Hitachi77 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Am I mad or is Mike Dantoni the perfect fit for this roster.

He is 73 years old.


Well he doesn’t look it. I was shocked to see he is only 3 years younger than Pop.

He’s a great fit. The team needs to runnnnnn. Also him returning to Phoenix is almost poetic. And again, he did well in Houston before CP3 got there.


Coach Bud or Chris Quinn (Spo's lead assistant)
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#331 » by Revived » Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:25 pm

Read on Twitter


This is why it would be stupid as hell to fire Vogel and keep James Jones.

Ishbia needs to hire a great basketball exec like Bob Myers and commit to staying off and letting them do their damn job.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#332 » by BurningHeart » Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:32 pm

This team is not likable. It isn't merely unsalvageable.

It is detestable.

Trying to "make this work" is the dumbest thing imaginable.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#333 » by Qwigglez » Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:39 pm

I'd prefer to fire Vogel still. If JJ Redick interviews well, I'd be interested in him as a possible coaching candidate. Maybe even Jared Dudley as he's got a few years of assistant coach on his resume now. Get a younger coach, similar to how the Heat have had Spoelstra as their head coach the last 10+ years, even when they had the big 3. A new coach that is innovative and doesn't have their own "system" but can create a system based on his players.

Getting rid of James Jones is tough IMO because I feel like a lot of big decisions weren't his to make (KD trade, drafting DA). The smaller details definitely were Jones most likely. I'm afraid of going after another executive because I feel anyone that Ishbia hires will just be another "yes-man", and just does whatever Ishbia wants. I thought I remember hearing Budenholzer not only wanted the head coaching job but also the title of executive of personnel or something of that sort. I wouldn't be opposed to coach Bud despite what I said in the previous paragraph mostly because I feel like he brilliantly got the most out of all of his players in the Bucks title run. We need that level of coaching, where Pat Connaughton makes the difference between winning a title or not.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#334 » by Qwigglez » Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:52 pm

I also seriously hope we consider trading Beal or KD. Probably Beal as I think he's easier to move, even with his no-trade clause. The no-trade clause really isn't an issue IMO, it basically means Beal won't be forced to a team like the Hornets, but I can see him being open to the Lakers, Clippers, or quite a handful of teams honestly. I think the big-three is dead for the NBA. That is what they were trying to get rid of with the new CBA anyway.

I mentioned it previously, but I think Beal for D'Lo, Rui, and Gabe Vincent would do a lot for both the Lakers and Suns. D'Lo isn't an upgrade over Beal, but D'Lo can be a better PG than Beal, and can launch 3s in bunches. He's also very inconsistent. Rui would be ideal to probably start over Grayson Allen to give the Suns more size. But perhaps he can come off the bench. Gabe Vincent was out the majority of the year but really never looked good and I think the Lakers probably regret giving him his contract.

For the Lakers, they get someone else to pair with AD more long-term since Lebron is about to be 40. Beal can be more ball-dominant with AD and Lebron as opposed to whatever concoction Frank Vogel was trying with the Suns.

I'm unsure if the Lakers would do this, but I think I would to give the Suns a more balanced roster.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#335 » by Revived » Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:19 pm

BurningHeart wrote:This team is not likable. It isn't merely unsalvageable.

It is detestable.

Trying to "make this work" is the dumbest thing imaginable.

Not likable? Come on BH, you’re not laughing at this hilarious joke Beal cracked today after he played like dog*** resulting in them getting swept yesterday?

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


Imagine being able to make $50 million dollars PER YEAR while being a complete disaster at your job and then just laughing off about how much you suck at your job.

Every person on this forum would be fired if we performed as poorly at our jobs as Beal does…and none of us make even anywhere close to what Beal is stealing from the NBA.

People like Bradley Beal and Ben Simmons making so much $$ for doing nothing really could make one question life itself…I don’t want to get too political but imagine the impact both their salaries combined could have if it was better spend on helping people with food and shelter in places in the world currently where is not much peace. Hell as someone living in America, it could go a long way towards helping folks that are homeless and struggling on paycheck to paycheck salary here too.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#336 » by Revived » Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:07 pm

Read on Twitter


This would be a god awful move to give a 35 yr old an extension for 2 years from now. Because of that I think Ishbia will likely push for it.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#337 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:10 pm

Revived wrote:
Read on Twitter


This would be a god awful move to give a 35 yr old an extension for 2 years from now. Because of that I think Ishbia will likely push for it.
Ring of Honor bayyyybeeeee
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#338 » by Qwigglez » Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:27 pm

KD and the front office should both understand that an extension would not be beneficial for the future of the franchise. Even if KD wants to stay, he would need to be willing to take a discount if he wants the Suns to improve the roster.
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#339 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:07 pm

King4Day wrote:If I'm Ishbia, I'm huddling up with the front office brass. I look at all options and possibilities to fix this team.
If there's no silver bullet (I don't imagine there is), they need to seriously consider blowing it up entirely...right now.

Jones has to go and you hire a new GM with good scouting and motivated at finding diamonds in the rough. Sean Marks did a great job for the Nets during their days of no picks (Not saying him, but that idea).

I talk to the Nets about Booker and getting our firsts back (all unprotected). Maybe they would do Bridges and our firsts. If not, then let's get Cam back instead.
It won't help that we can do nothing about our swaps, but we at least can focus on tanking every other year.

If this isn't possible, then talk to ALL interested teams about Booker and find the best deal. His long contract means he can request to go to NY all he wants, but the Suns don't have to, nor should they, meet his destination request. They can't afford to be nice. The future was ruined and he's the only way to fix it.

I talk to whomever is interested in KD and take the best deal. Ideally, picks and whatever player(s) we can get.

Let Beal (unfortunately) have the keys for the next 2-3 years to help stay semi competitive (likely won't since he couldn't do it in Washington). Hope he has a renaissance where another team will want him in a future trade.

Figure the rest out through the draft and hope you nail it.


Well! That would be the most obvious and logical pathway to actually pivoting from a being hopeless underperforming, treadmilling laughing stock team with no wat out of the bottomless pit we're in. However, with Ishbia being an ego driven impulsive clout chasing rich boy owner with a "little man" complex, It's likely he'll double down as much as possible and use the coaching and chemistry discussion topics as a scapegoating deflective method to try and distract people from blaming him so he won't have to take full and direct accountability! Even if it is what's best for this franchise and city both in the short and long term. However, IF by some miracle Ishbia does find the testicular fortitude under enough national pressure to actually pivot and blow it all up, I'd look to:
Stay competitive pathway)!!
1- Trade KD/Nurkic to Atlanta
KD/Nurkic for Murray/ Capela/ Hunter/ SAC 25' 1st/ ATL 26' 1st/ ATL 28' 1st.

2- Trade Booker to New York
Booker for Randle/ Anunoby/ NYK 24' 1st (25th)/ WAS 25' 1st (1-10 protected)/ MIL 25' 1st (1-4 protected)/ NYK 2027 1st/ 24' 2nd via CLE or UTA (38th). So 4 1sts and 2 2nds in total.

3- Trade Beal to Miami (I'd try and convince Beal to drop his trade clause so he can go to Miami to compete, rather than stay here and endure a long difficult rebuild)! I'd ask for:

Beal for Rozier/ Herro. *** But If they wouldn't do Herro, then I'd settle for
Beal for Rozier/D Robinson/ Martin/Jaq'uez. So basically post blow it up trade scenarios, we'd be looking at:

Murray/Robinson/Anunoby/ Randle/ Capela.
Rozier/ Allen/ O'neale/ Hunter/ Huktpori- (38th pick).
Kolek (25th)/ Gordon/ Okogie/Tyler Smith (22nd)/ Quinton Post (UDFA).

- Atlanta Picks ( 3 1sts).
- NYK picks (4 1sts/ 2 2nds).

(Blow it up and bottom out pathway)!!
1- Trade KD to OKC
KD for Dort/Giddey/Joe or Wiggins/ 24' Hou 1st (12th)/ MIA 25' 1st (protected 1-14) / DEN 27' 1st (protected 1-5)/ DAL 28' 1st.

2- Trade Booker to New York
Booker/Eubanks for Randle/Bogdanovic'/Sims/ NYK 24' 1st (25th)/ WAS 25' 1st (1-10 protected)/ DET 25' 1st ( 1-13 protected)/MIL 25' 1st (1-4 protected)/ NYK 27' 1st.

3- Trade Beal to BRK
Beal for Simmons' (40 million) expiring contract/ Schroder (13 million contract). No picks or additional players inclusive to this deal. The premise of this being that between Beals' and Simmons' bad contracts, at least with Beal, they'd have a star level (at times) backcourt compliment for Bridges and Johnson to play off of and that can help them maybe make the playoffs?? as opposed to just having Simmons sit there on the bench eating up 40 million in salary but never playing. But IF they don't want Beal, then we pivot to Miami for the Rozier/Duncan Robinson package. :nod:

So post blow it up trades we'd be looking at something like.................

Giddey/ Robinson/ Dort/ Randle/ Nurkic.
Rozier/ Allen/ O'neale/ Bojan / Sims.
Kolek (22nd) / Joe/ Martin/ Tyler Smith (25th)/ Missi (12th).

**G League**- Jaime Jacquez.
OKC picks- ( 4 1sts).
NYK picks ( 5 1sts).
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Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title 

Post#340 » by BurningHeart » Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:10 pm

My only question is why would the Sonics want to bring in that cancer after all the **** that roster put them through and all the time they spent trying to build again?

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