2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 6 - The Playoff Quest for a Title

[Biff]

Someone just said Sarver was better than Ish? I guess him dismantling a potential dynasty all to save a penny was forgotten? How about him trying to move the Suns from Phoenix? Revisionist history. This place has become worse than this team.

Both are awful. There's no need to defend one over the other.

Sarver was crass but he learned from his mistakes. It was night and day with him compared to what he was like early on as the owner.

It's just funny to me now - because most of the fan base was blood thirsty to replace him with a big spender owner. They got one and now so many are like "Oh I didn't mean THAT kind of big spender." So convenient.

By big spender we didn't mean also get rid of all future assets in the process. Big spender doesn't automatically mean "I'm completely incompetent".

[Hitachi77]

Had there been just one freaking competent PG on the roster to facilitate. JJ and this trio of Big 3 clowns just wouldn't let it happen. I never want to hear about something in "threes" again. It started with the Dragic, Bledsoe, Thomas crap and then we got it again with Book, Beal, Durant.

Why did we go dump Payne in the first place? And then carried Damian Lee on the roster all season.

I know some of you like to romanticize that guy - but Payne is not what I meant. I'm talking an ACTUAL point guard - not an undersized combo-guard who is one-handed and has an ugly hitch in his shooting mechanics who's prone to playing out of control at times.

The reason CP3 made such an impact was because he was a coach on the court, not to mention a leader - something Book, Beal, and KD are not and never will be.

CP3 is one of the greatest PGs of all time. Him hitting father time suddenly was what screwed us. Who did you want to get as his replacement what how would we get him here? The Beal trade was a fluke and only happened because of his no trade clause. Payne actually played well when CP3 was out, and we beat Denver twice with him as our PG. I’m not sure who we could get that’s better. Even the Ayton trade was a bit a fluke too.

[enigmatics]

Why did we go dump Payne in the first place? And then carried Damian Lee on the roster all season.

I know some of you like to romanticize that guy - but Payne is not what I meant. I'm talking an ACTUAL point guard - not an undersized combo-guard who is one-handed and has an ugly hitch in his shooting mechanics who's prone to playing out of control at times.

The reason CP3 made such an impact was because he was a coach on the court, not to mention a leader - something Book, Beal, and KD are not and never will be.

CP3 is one of the greatest PGs of all time. Him hitting father time suddenly was what screwed us. Who did you want to get as his replacement what how would we get him here? The Beal trade was a fluke and only happened because of his no trade clause. Payne actually played well when CP3 was out, and we beat Denver twice with him as our PG. I’m not sure who we could get that’s better. Even the Ayton trade was a bit a fluke too.

The Suns beat Denver on the back of insane play from Booker not because of Cam Payne. Nothing you say changes the fact that he's not an actual point guard. He's a JAG. That's why he's been on 3 teams in less than 2 seasons.

[King4Day]

ESPN with a depressing article about the lack of things the Suns can do this summer.

If I'm Ty Lue, I'd avoid this team should he be let go.

If we come back next season with relatively the same team, I think the franchise is really going to struggle selling tickets.

[MrMiyagi]

ESPN with a depressing article about the lack of things the Suns can do this summer.

If I'm Ty Lue, I'd avoid this team should he be let go.

If we come back next season with relatively the same team, I think the franchise is really going to struggle selling tickets.

I went to 1 game this season to see Wemby in person as a rookie. Probably won't go to any next year.

[King4Day]

If I'm Ishbia, I'm huddling up with the front office brass. I look at all options and possibilities to fix this team.
If there's no silver bullet (I don't imagine there is), they need to seriously consider blowing it up entirely...right now.

Jones has to go and you hire a new GM with good scouting and motivated at finding diamonds in the rough. Sean Marks did a great job for the Nets during their days of no picks (Not saying him, but that idea).

I talk to the Nets about Booker and getting our firsts back (all unprotected). Maybe they would do Bridges and our firsts. If not, then let's get Cam back instead.
It won't help that we can do nothing about our swaps, but we at least can focus on tanking every other year.

If this isn't possible, then talk to ALL interested teams about Booker and find the best deal. His long contract means he can request to go to NY all he wants, but the Suns don't have to, nor should they, meet his destination request. They can't afford to be nice. The future was ruined and he's the only way to fix it.

I talk to whomever is interested in KD and take the best deal. Ideally, picks and whatever player(s) we can get.

Let Beal (unfortunately) have the keys for the next 2-3 years to help stay semi competitive (likely won't since he couldn't do it in Washington). Hope he has a renaissance where another team will want him in a future trade.

Figure the rest out through the draft and hope you nail it.

[Biff]

If we run this team back I'm done with Suns for a long time. Next year will be a disaster and unless we extend Durant, he can just walk for nothing. At that point Book will 100% ask for a trade and we will have zero leverage, dooming this franchise for the foreseeable future. I'd rather not suffer through the 2010's again but given how incompetent Ishbia seems, it feels like we're headed in that direction.

I'm glad I love basketball in general though, I'll enjoy watching Jokic, Wemby, Luka and (likely) Flagg tear up the league for the next 10 years. Would be ironic though if we end up getting #1 pick in 2025 and Flagg goes to the Nets.

[King4Day]

If we run this team back I'm done with Suns for a long time. Next year will be a disaster and unless we extend Durant, he can just walk for nothing. At that point Book will 100% ask for a trade and we will have zero leverage, dooming this franchise for the foreseeable future. I'd rather not suffer through the 2010's again but given how incompetent Ishbia seems, it feels like we're headed in that direction.

I'm glad I love basketball in general though, I'll enjoy watching Jokic, Wemby, Luka and (likely) Flagg tear up the league for the next 10 years. Would be ironic though if we end up getting #1 pick in 2025 and Flagg goes to the Nets.

Book has no leverage. 4 years on his contract starting next year. Detroit calls us with a godfather offer and his agent says "we want NY", Jones can tell him to enjoy his homecoming.

As for KD, he has 2 years left. I don't extend him as that will devalue him (60mil at age 38? no thanks).
Trade him now and get max return (people think he won't net us a ton...I promise you he will. Not what we gave up, but a solid asset recoup)

[Revived]

Both are awful. There's no need to defend one over the other.

One is at least upgrading facilities, purchasing a G League team, and spending the most in the league. The moves haven't all panned out obviously, but one is trying to win.. Sarver was in it for the $$$

While it’s true, Sarver finally decided to take a backseat and allow basketball minds to make decisions. Sadly for him it was too late to save face considering the allegations against him. But I’d take the new approach Sarver minus the allegations over what Ishbia has done to our team in a matter of months.

Exactly well said. I don’t see how this is hard to understand for some.

[Frank Lee]

I too will abstain from this ****show. I would not ever go to a game anyways, just due to the circus bs atmosphere geared towards 12 yr olds and the non shop hectic so called entertainment.

But this is such an unlikable bunch.

Top it off with a rah rah borderline delusional owner, who’s learning curve has F-ed us for the next 5 yrs…. Well….. i will be a fan of some players but save my emotional involvement for fanduel.

[Hitachi77]

I know some of you like to romanticize that guy - but Payne is not what I meant. I'm talking an ACTUAL point guard - not an undersized combo-guard who is one-handed and has an ugly hitch in his shooting mechanics who's prone to playing out of control at times.

The reason CP3 made such an impact was because he was a coach on the court, not to mention a leader - something Book, Beal, and KD are not and never will be.

CP3 is one of the greatest PGs of all time. Him hitting father time suddenly was what screwed us. Who did you want to get as his replacement what how would we get him here? The Beal trade was a fluke and only happened because of his no trade clause. Payne actually played well when CP3 was out, and we beat Denver twice with him as our PG. I’m not sure who we could get that’s better. Even the Ayton trade was a bit a fluke too.

The Suns beat Denver on the back of insane play from Booker not because of Cam Payne. Nothing you say changes the fact that he's not an actual point guard. He's a JAG. That's why he's been on 3 teams in less than 2 seasons.

I don’t disagree on the type of player he is. But he has played well in the playoffs at times, like scoring 30 points vs Denver in game 6 (the only player who showed up) and having big games in 2021. Also having big assist games replacing CP3 as a starter. I get that he had a lot of bad games last year coming back the bench, but cutting him for nothing still made no sense, especially since we had no idea how the new players would turn out. And again, I don’t know what PG we could get, CP3s don’t grow on trees.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Heat have picks plus some nice young guys like Jacquez Jr, Jovic etc. Tyler Herro big contract too.

[enigmatics]

CP3 is one of the greatest PGs of all time. Him hitting father time suddenly was what screwed us. Who did you want to get as his replacement what how would we get him here? The Beal trade was a fluke and only happened because of his no trade clause. Payne actually played well when CP3 was out, and we beat Denver twice with him as our PG. I’m not sure who we could get that’s better. Even the Ayton trade was a bit a fluke too.

The Suns beat Denver on the back of insane play from Booker not because of Cam Payne. Nothing you say changes the fact that he's not an actual point guard. He's a JAG. That's why he's been on 3 teams in less than 2 seasons.

I don’t disagree on the type of player he is. But he has played well in the playoffs at times, like scoring 30 points vs Denver in game 6 (the only player who showed up) and having big games in 2021. Also having big assist games replacing CP3 as a starter. I get that he had a lot of bad games last year coming back the bench, but cutting him for nothing still made no sense, especially since we had no idea how the new players would turn out. And again, I don’t know what PG we could get, CP3s don’t grow on trees.

CP3's certainly don't grow on trees - but unless you're running the triangle offense you absolutely have to have a competent one - full stop. They had a worthless assistant HC in Young and 3 egos who routinely didn't know how to table set or get other guys into position.

[RaisingArizona]

I want JJ gone and I want it now

It’s my money and I want it now!

Call JG Wedsworth now

[RaisingArizona]

Both are awful. There's no need to defend one over the other.

One is at least upgrading facilities, purchasing a G League team, and spending the most in the league. The moves haven't all panned out obviously, but one is trying to win.. Sarver was in it for the $$$

He also killed any chance on winning in the next 7 years. Nice try tho



and for the love of god....You think Ishbia IS NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY???

I'm not pronouncing this team dead for the remainder of the decade. I've seen crazier turn of events in sports.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Mods can we please ban these idiot DA stans?

I expect even more after the next game.

Be careful when calling a long time Suns fans idiots. I follow this team since 1993 and since I am from Europe I often stay all night long or wake up at 3AM just to watch Phoenix Suns, you ignorant disrecpectfull ****.

Idk Ryu… sometimes i feel like an idiot for bring a longtime suns fan.

An idiot? not at all, As suns fans we are all closet maschocists to some degree, venting our self loathing through our hapless and hopeless team! (if you can even call them that. Now our ownership and gm on the other hands are absolutely ego driven delusional blithering idiots! And the worst part of delusional self engrandizing buffoons that think they're just smarter than everyone else is their outright refusal to accept the reality and consequences of the ignorance. All while everyone around them or those they're in charge of struggle and suffer! Our suns front "orifice" is an outright clownshow!!!!

[Slim Charless]

Knicks have a ton of picks so might be an option. They can send us Randle and Divicenzo to be tank commanders with Beal.

-Suns don't have their picks so "tank commander" stuff is dumb.

-Trading him to Brooklyn is pointless as they have nothing to offer aside from our picks back. Also dumb

-Randle and Donte aren't enough for a player of Booker's quality and won't move the needle.



Steven A is a hack.

Booker needs to go though man. It's painfully obvious.

I disagree. We can win with him. We need depth and younger players that work better with him.....we need a KD trade.

[BobbieL]

If I'm Ishbia, I'm huddling up with the front office brass. I look at all options and possibilities to fix this team.
If there's no silver bullet (I don't imagine there is), they need to seriously consider blowing it up entirely...right now.

Jones has to go and you hire a new GM with good scouting and motivated at finding diamonds in the rough. Sean Marks did a great job for the Nets during their days of no picks (Not saying him, but that idea).

I talk to the Nets about Booker and getting our firsts back (all unprotected). Maybe they would do Bridges and our firsts. If not, then let's get Cam back instead.
It won't help that we can do nothing about our swaps, but we at least can focus on tanking every other year.

If this isn't possible, then talk to ALL interested teams about Booker and find the best deal. His long contract means he can request to go to NY all he wants, but the Suns don't have to, nor should they, meet his destination request. They can't afford to be nice. The future was ruined and he's the only way to fix it.

I talk to whomever is interested in KD and take the best deal. Ideally, picks and whatever player(s) we can get.

Let Beal (unfortunately) have the keys for the next 2-3 years to help stay semi competitive (likely won't since he couldn't do it in Washington). Hope he has a renaissance where another team will want him in a future trade.

Figure the rest out through the draft and hope you nail it.

From where I sit, Ishbia is the one who bleeped the Suns situation over. He was hired and made an impulsive stupid trade

As for Booker and Durant - if they are traded, one or both, so be it. This team is going nowwhere

[Puff]

BW and other constantly complained about my dislike of the Beal acquisition. It was just frigging awful and shown through clear as day last night. We would have been far better off just letting CP3 go for nothing in return and used whatever money we had to acquire another big or point guard, preferably both, that would be legit players. They did not have to be a star just decent role players.

I also was not a huge fan of the Ayton trade. While I complained about him, I could see light at the end of the tunnel. There is no future with Nurkic at center. What happened with the idea of giving a chance for Vogel to work with Ayton? Maybe Nurkic is unhappy with the coach like the reports coming from KD.

I remember when we could not wait until we got a healthy Beal. Championship here we come. Well, the truth came out last night. This team just does not have the pieces to compete, or the head coach is totally incompetent. Probably both.

Ish should clean house on the current management, including himself, while giving the reins to an actual basketball mind. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen.

Dark Days ahead

[spanishninja]

ESPN with a depressing article about the lack of things the Suns can do this summer.

If I'm Ty Lue, I'd avoid this team should he be let go.

If we come back next season with relatively the same team, I think the franchise is really going to struggle selling tickets.

I went to 1 game this season to see Wemby in person as a rookie. Probably won't go to any next year.

I live in SoCal so it's not necessarily easy for me to go see a Suns game, but until this year, I had traveled at least once a year for a game going as far back as 2018. This year, for the first time in a while, I didn't go to a single game. I almost bought a ticket for the second home Rockets game on Mar 2, and it would have pissed me off greatly if I ended up watching that in person.