NBA PLAYOFFS: GAME 4: Minnesota Timberwolves @ Phoenix Suns (3-0) | Sunday | 6:30PM

[Sunlight]

From now on, what is the most realistic option if the goal is to win the championship someday? Everyone realizes that Beal cannot be moved except in dreams, so something else.

[sunsbum]

In Jones defense if he remains a GM this probably means he warned Ishbia giving everything for 35yo KD is a bad move. Maybe Ishbia listens next time. That said, it doesn't mean Jones should not be fired if a better GM is available. Firing Vogel is not even debatable.

Of course he did, he wasn’t going to trade bridges. That was all on Ishbia. Everyone knows that. Now the Beal trade I don’t know. I don’t understand how you play 12 years of NBA basketball and think you can get away without having a point guard AFTER WATCHING
ONE OF THE ALL TIME GREAT PGS TAKE YOUR TEAM TO THE FINALS. I don’t care about losing Paul because he was obvious cooked…but man whose bright idea was it to run no PG. I still think the Brad Beal experiment can work, he just needs to come off the bench and take Eric Gordon’s spot. If he doesn’t like it we’ll be happy to help him waive his no trade clause.

[sunsbum]

We have 3 picks in the next 6 years… 1 first and 2 Seconds. How depressing. Let’s just think about that real quick.. It could potentially be 10+ (including rookie development) years until we see a good product on the floor.

[sunsbg]

We have 3 picks in the next 6 years… 1 first and 2 Seconds. How depressing. Let’s just think about that real quick.. It could potentially be 10+ (including rookie development) years until we see a good product on the floor.

I'm not sure how so many people think we don't have picks, even Suns fans. Swaps still result in a 1st round pick, late 1st most likely, but still a 1st round pick. If they blow it up, it likely brings some picks back. But yeah, Suns will depend on the FA market to stay relevant after KD/Beal expire.

Also I have thought for some time about Beal coming off the bench you mention above and potentially that forcing him to waive the no trade clause and asks for a trade. All fears about his skillset overlapping with Booker's turned out to be valid. As much as those two are staggered is beneficial for the team.

[sunsbum]

We have 3 picks in the next 6 years… 1 first and 2 Seconds. How depressing. Let’s just think about that real quick.. It could potentially be 10+ (including rookie development) years until we see a good product on the floor.

I'm not sure how so many people think we don't have picks, even Suns fans. Swaps still result in a 1st round pick, late 1st most likely, but still a 1st round pick. If they blow it up, it likely brings some picks back. But yeah, Suns will depend on the FA market to stay relevant after KD/Beal expire.

Also I have thought for some time about Beal coming off the bench you mention above and potentially that forcing him to waive the no trade clause and asks for a trade. All fears about his skillset overlapping with Booker's turned out to be valid. As much as those two are staggered is beneficial for the team.

Ah, my bad I just looked up a chart real quick on google and it didn't say anything about pick swaps or if it did I just glossed over it in sad.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Even Wolves official Twitter page getting in on sh***ting on Brad Beal is honestly awesome. He deserves to get s**t on as much as possible when he’s literally out here stealing $$.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Can Ishbia buy-out Beal and then make him go work at his real estate office or whatever?

The suns should seriously be looking to try and convince Beal to go play in Brooklyn as their top star alongside of Bridges and Johnson, so he won't have to be a 3rd option anymore!
Then consequently we'll just take back Simmons 40 million expiring (next season) and Schroders' 13 million for salary matching incentives for Brooklyn. Beal gets to be featured more while helping the Nets get into the playoffs in an easier eastern conference, and we get off his contract two seasons early. Both teams win!

I love it but every time this gets brought up to a Nets fan... they are like hell no!

They also have Cam Thomas who is a younger, much cheaper Beal.

For sure you're right man! But Beal is bigger,more athletic and when he's not injured or struggling, he's a more established proven scorer. PLUS this premise is not that Beal would be replacing Thomas, but rather adding alongside him to give them a more potent scoring backcourt.

Also, Ben Simmons asn't really played and might not ever play again due to mental issues/etc. BUT is eating up $40 million while sitting on the bench with zero production/impact other than impacting their cap flexibility. The Nets might prefer the cap space once Simmons contract expires, but that obviously doesn't help them get any closer to the playoffs next season. At least in the games Beal would play (however many that may be) would offer offensive production as another scoring weapon that BOTH Bridges and Johnson could play off of. AND, in my suggestion we wouldn't be asking for any draft assets or young talent back due to Beals' contract and no trade clause /injury history. This trade is basically a straight swap of a bad contract for another bad contract, but one that can actually play some and offer production going forward for a young team hungry to make the playoffs. Unless, the Nets are certian that they'll be able to get some big names in free agency once Simmons' contract expires??

[Ghost of Kleine]

And if you think we've already hit rock bottom, just wait until the Brooklyn Nets start nabbing top 3 picks with our lottery picks, true to Suns fashion.

Fantastic and awful point.

We can't even "rebuild" because we **** gave away all our **** picks.

We have to accelerate-rebuild.

Just the fact alone that James Jones passed on Haliburton, Vassell, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, etc etc, should be legitimate grounds for his firing. But then when you also consider his cumulative body of work such as letting torrey Craig walk over 5 million dollars (for a 2nd year on his contract) only to shortly after (in the same season) then traded to get him back while not only still paying the amount he balked over, but also giving up a draft asset and a promising young prospect (J Smith) in the trade, just to undo his recent blunder. Then giving up our 21st pick to trade for infamous suns bust Landry Shamet with the pick becoming Sharpe ( a much better player in terms of size/impact production at a position of need) BUT ALSO with Herb Jones still being available in that range.

Then, He aggressively and carelessly trades away nearly all of our remaining assets for the next 8 yrs in a deal with Washington for an oft injured, unreliable redundent player that has a cap killing contract that's widely perceived as the worst contract in the entire league and with a no trade clause that makes it impossible to even move! All while having ALL OF THE LEVERAGE IN THE TRADE ITSELF, but still surrendering the vast majority of our few remaining assets just because he admittedly doesn't value the draft:
https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/phoenix-suns-james-jones-devin-booker-espn

"He even confesses that, had he been at the helm in 2015, he probably would have passed on Booker," said Arnovitz.

"It all depends on what your goal is," Jones says. "Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star. It wasn't until winning was imported -- Chris, Jae Crowder, drafting a three-year guy who could help right away like Mikal -- that it translated to success. And if you don't import winning around him, there are even more skeletons. So if you want to find the guy with the highest potential to be the future star, then it makes sense to draft him -- if you're willing to navigate the land mines."

It's astounding just how truly terrible he is at talent evaluation, Value assessment, or even a willingness to just simply put in the amount of work that any other reasonably successful GM would be willing to do in comparison. James Jones should be booted from the NBA and never allowed anywhere near an NBA franchise in any decision making capacity at all. Having in making decisions for any team is clearly an egregiously reprehensible decision. HOWEVER, I do understand why an immature, inexperienced, melding jack azz clout chasing cheapskate owner like Saver or an inexperienced ego driven clout chasing overtly impulsive rich boy with a frat boy attitude and a "little man" superiority complex needs an insulatory puppet GM "yes man" to be a shield against their very obvious terrible ego driven decisions.

[OfficialRef]

Super Teams can only go so far. Good try Sons fans!

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

Edwards lowkey trolling Vogel with the “he’s played good” one of the main reasons this final game 4 was close was because Eubanks did not play even a minute.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Edwards lowkey trolling Vogel with the “he’s played good” one of the main reasons this final game 4 was close was because Eubanks did not play even a minute.

Basically, they knew they could exploit Nurkic. Pick and rolls all game with Nurkic as the help defender. If the main defender goes under the screen, take the 3 as it will be the most open dribble three they'll get. Eubanks wasn't that good, but he's a more versatile defender. If only could make reads half a second faster he'd be more than a vet minimum role player in the league.

[Revived]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Edwards lowkey trolling Vogel with the “he’s played good” one of the main reasons this final game 4 was close was because Eubanks did not play even a minute.

Basically, they knew they could exploit Nurkic. Pick and rolls all game with Nurkic as the help defender. If the main defender goes under the screen, take the 3 as it will be the most open dribble three they'll get. Eubanks wasn't that good, but he's a more versatile defender. If only could make reads half a second faster he'd be more than a vet minimum role player in the league.

We had to have the worst C rotation of any playoff team…by far.

[sunsbum]

And if you think we've already hit rock bottom, just wait until the Brooklyn Nets start nabbing top 3 picks with our lottery picks, true to Suns fashion.

Fantastic and awful point.

We can't even "rebuild" because we **** gave away all our **** picks.

We have to accelerate-rebuild.

Just the fact alone that James Jones passed on Haliburton, Vassell, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, etc etc, should be legitimate grounds for his firing. But then when you also consider his cumulative body of work such as letting torrey Craig walk over 5 million dollars (for a 2nd year on his contract) only to shortly after (in the same season) then traded to get him back while not only still paying the amount he balked over, but also giving up a draft asset and a promising young prospect (J Smith) in the trade, just to undo his recent blunder. Then giving up our 21st pick to trade for infamous suns bust Landry Shamet with the pick becoming Sharpe ( a much better player in terms of size/impact production at a position of need) BUT ALSO with Herb Jones still being available in that range.

Then, He aggressively and carelessly trades away nearly all of our remaining assets for the next 8 yrs in a deal with Washington for an oft injured, unreliable redundent player that has a cap killing contract that's widely perceived as the worst contract in the entire league and with a no trade clause that makes it impossible to even move! All while having ALL OF THE LEVERAGE IN THE TRADE ITSELF, but still surrendering the vast majority of our few remaining assets just because he admittedly doesn't value the draft:
https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/phoenix-suns-james-jones-devin-booker-espn

"He even confesses that, had he been at the helm in 2015, he probably would have passed on Booker," said Arnovitz.

"It all depends on what your goal is," Jones says. "Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star. It wasn't until winning was imported -- Chris, Jae Crowder, drafting a three-year guy who could help right away like Mikal -- that it translated to success. And if you don't import winning around him, there are even more skeletons. So if you want to find the guy with the highest potential to be the future star, then it makes sense to draft him -- if you're willing to navigate the land mines."

It's astounding just how truly terrible he is at talent evaluation, Value assessment, or even a willingness to just simply put in the amount of work that any other reasonably successful GM would be willing to do in comparison. James Jones should be booted from the NBA and never allowed anywhere near an NBA franchise in any decision making capacity at all. Having in making decisions for any team is clearly an egregiously reprehensible decision. HOWEVER, I do understand why an immature, inexperienced, melding jack azz clout chasing cheapskate owner like Saver or an inexperienced ego driven clout chasing overtly impulsive rich boy with a frat boy attitude and a "little man" superiority complex needs an insulatory puppet GM "yes man" to be a shield against their very obvious terrible ego driven decisions.

I just hate every bit of this argument. Theres a 1000 players that 100s of GMs have passed on, has happened since the beginning of time and will keep happening. This spilled milk that suns fans are obsessed with never ceases to amaze me.

[mkot]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Edwards lowkey trolling Vogel with the “he’s played good” one of the main reasons this final game 4 was close was because Eubanks did not play even a minute.

Basically, they knew they could exploit Nurkic. Pick and rolls all game with Nurkic as the help defender. If the main defender goes under the screen, take the 3 as it will be the most open dribble three they'll get. Eubanks wasn't that good, but he's a more versatile defender. If only could make reads half a second faster he'd be more than a vet minimum role player in the league.

We had to have the worst C rotation of any playoff team…by far.

To be fair to Nurkić, most bigs struggle in pick and rolls defending the perimeter not named Adebayo and Anthony Davis. Gobert used to be a target in this type of situation when he was in Utah too until he arrives in Minny pairing with their lengthy and active perimeter defenders in McDaniels and NAW that are so hard to screen and are consistently able to funnel dribblers to Gobert. Jokić for example has better foot speed and hands than Nukić but he struggle too until they got KCP for him. You need good POA defender who are also a threat on the other end so teams can't play 5 v 4 on you. All the vet mins guys on this roster are all one dimensional and Book has no dawg on that end.

Anyway I think Nukić's offense is the main reason he became unplayable in the playoffs. His lack of offensive game and incredibly bad hands were pretty obvious during his early days in Denver. OK BBIQ but foul pron and incredible dumb. I was so happy they eventually got rid of him in favor of Jokić but then the Suns got him

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

Even Wolves official Twitter page getting in on sh***ting on Brad Beal is honestly awesome. He deserves to get s**t on as much as possible when he’s literally out here stealing $$.

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Fantastic and awful point.

We can't even "rebuild" because we **** gave away all our **** picks.

We have to accelerate-rebuild.

Just the fact alone that James Jones passed on Haliburton, Vassell, Cole Anthony, Tyrese Maxey, Desmond Bane, etc etc, should be legitimate grounds for his firing. But then when you also consider his cumulative body of work such as letting torrey Craig walk over 5 million dollars (for a 2nd year on his contract) only to shortly after (in the same season) then traded to get him back while not only still paying the amount he balked over, but also giving up a draft asset and a promising young prospect (J Smith) in the trade, just to undo his recent blunder. Then giving up our 21st pick to trade for infamous suns bust Landry Shamet with the pick becoming Sharpe ( a much better player in terms of size/impact production at a position of need) BUT ALSO with Herb Jones still being available in that range.

Then, He aggressively and carelessly trades away nearly all of our remaining assets for the next 8 yrs in a deal with Washington for an oft injured, unreliable redundent player that has a cap killing contract that's widely perceived as the worst contract in the entire league and with a no trade clause that makes it impossible to even move! All while having ALL OF THE LEVERAGE IN THE TRADE ITSELF, but still surrendering the vast majority of our few remaining assets just because he admittedly doesn't value the draft:
https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/phoenix-suns-james-jones-devin-booker-espn

"He even confesses that, had he been at the helm in 2015, he probably would have passed on Booker," said Arnovitz.

"It all depends on what your goal is," Jones says. "Devin is great, but there are 50 skeletons tied to that swing for the star. It wasn't until winning was imported -- Chris, Jae Crowder, drafting a three-year guy who could help right away like Mikal -- that it translated to success. And if you don't import winning around him, there are even more skeletons. So if you want to find the guy with the highest potential to be the future star, then it makes sense to draft him -- if you're willing to navigate the land mines."

It's astounding just how truly terrible he is at talent evaluation, Value assessment, or even a willingness to just simply put in the amount of work that any other reasonably successful GM would be willing to do in comparison. James Jones should be booted from the NBA and never allowed anywhere near an NBA franchise in any decision making capacity at all. Having in making decisions for any team is clearly an egregiously reprehensible decision. HOWEVER, I do understand why an immature, inexperienced, melding jack azz clout chasing cheapskate owner like Saver or an inexperienced ego driven clout chasing overtly impulsive rich boy with a frat boy attitude and a "little man" superiority complex needs an insulatory puppet GM "yes man" to be a shield against their very obvious terrible ego driven decisions.

I just hate every bit of this argument. Theres a 1000 players that 100s of GMs have passed on, has happened since the beginning of time and will keep happening. This spilled milk that suns fans are obsessed with never ceases to amaze me.

Fair enough! That's an accurate assessment, You're definitely allowed your opinion, and clearly no one is gonna hit on every prospect either. But clearly there was multiple impactful prospects each year that he's missed on whilst specific high end franchises seem to still find a way to identify outlier talents and again hit time after time. Please explain to me why these numerous high end franchises can keep hitting on talent while others do not?? I'll give you a hint............ they actually invest time in that aspect with quality scouting departments, and most all of their GMs' too actually dedicate time to scouting talent because they recognize the value in it and realize to be a top championship franchise, you do actually need to try and maximize every a=vailable avenue to add talent and/or depth while maintaining cost control. Then you have Jones who missed on multiple impactful talents perennially (I can list them for you if you like) all while openly admitting that he'd have passed on Booker BECAUSE he just doesn't value the draft or trying to build from it!!

By the way, when was the last time Jones even drafted a young talent to try and develop, or take a swing at? Almost half a decade of absolutely zero young cost controlled talent, upside assets, and now we have absolutely zero draft assets young talent or cost controlled depth peices WITH ACTUAL UPSIDE, again keeping in mind that Jones openly admitted that he doesn't value the draft. Yeah, the draft is always hit or miss, HOWEVER, clearly the top franchises that keep pulling talent at various ranges seem to find a way to identify talent, so why hasn't Jones in almost two decades?? Jones may admittedly may not value or even care about the draft, but this becomes important when you just consider that we with our big three and a roster full of his vet choices under his blueprint, got their azzes handed to them by a younger, more athletic, more energetic and more physical team with more size too. And also the Thunder who obviously value the draft correctly and seemingly keep hitting on talent year after year just happen to be the #1 one team not only throughout the entire season, but also well into the postseason while our teams' season ended before it really began. How do you suppose that the Thunder and other top franchise manage to keep doing so well in the draft year after year??

Spoiler alert! It's due to their WILLINGNESS to actually invest time/research into actually scouting and identifying talent. How do you suppose so many amatuer draft fanatics and amatuer scouts can somehow also identify these talents even before the draft, and with not even a 10th of the resources at their disposal that NBA franchises have yet again, Jones has identified maybe 1-2 of these at the most in over 20+ yrs with this franchise? By the way, Haliburton as well as Maxey and Bane were no big secret even to casual fans that followed the draft. The difference is actually putting in the time/effort to spot these players, and the franchises that are successful are those that put the work in and develop those abilities! Jones has just never cared to (by his own admission). Instead, he's always thought he was smarter than everyone else and opted to choose vet min options year after year. How has that worked out for us so far?