The Official 2024 Offseason Thread

[TeamTragic]

Nurk would've been the only member of the starting five realistic to move. No one is taking beal's ntc anyway

How can you keep Nurkic based on his playoff record?

Dude gets played off the court in the regular season.

[thamadkant]

Theres a world where moving Booker is a thing but man the Knicks would not be someone I'd want to deal him to...just nothing attractive that they'd be able to send back.

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

[TeamTragic]

Theres a world where moving Booker is a thing but man the Knicks would not be someone I'd want to deal him to...just nothing attractive that they'd be able to send back.

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

Maybe if JJ was fired before we got those picks

[thamadkant]

I won't be invested or really following the team too tightly next year. No reason to. That's for the team to prove that they're worth following. I'll be checking our record and catching some games here and there.

That being said, I can live with running it back with a new coach and some new vet minimums BUT if it isn't 100% clear we are a contender that is coming together as a unit we better be shipping Durant off at or before the trade deadline, or make some other moves to signal the start of the rebuild at the very least (ship off Eric Gordon for picks, etc.).

By that point we will have over 100 games of sample size to make a pretty damn safe bet it's not gonna happen (well, statistically speaking you don't really need n>100. you could have made a somewhat safe bet we'd not been a contender by the 30 games mark this past year lol).

Continuing on Durant: his value is as high as it will ever be for us at 36 coming off a 70+ game season on elite offensive production. It will only get lower and with our empty coffers, and how we didn't "flip the switch" this year, we have to play it safe and maximize our return even if we lost the Nets trade horribly (sunk cost fallacy).

Welcome to the club... reducing my investment on the team back 2 years ago really helped reduce unnecessary stress in my life. Worrying about millionaires not winning is just ridiculous since ultimately sports is meant to entertain and if it's no longer fun then something is wrong.


Suns stopped being fun to watch ever since KD amd Booker decided to turn the suns into a high volume mid range isolation team... poor ball movement causing disinterest amongst players. It's just ugly as sin.

[dremill24]

Theres a world where moving Booker is a thing but man the Knicks would not be someone I'd want to deal him to...just nothing attractive that they'd be able to send back.

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

I'd have to disagree. For me, if you're moving Booker you need young players with real upside, not meh filler and crappy picks. You can try to get picks to supplement the package but since the Suns dont have their own picks, dumping him for picks only isnt going to help much. You have to have a real on-court building block or two coming back (and solid vet(s)). At that point you're "rebuilding" but not in the traditional way (just tanking for a good draft pick). I like Miles McBride ok but hes not close to the level of prospect needed.

[Slim Charless]

Theres a world where moving Booker is a thing but man the Knicks would not be someone I'd want to deal him to...just nothing attractive that they'd be able to send back.

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

I'd have to disagree. For me, if you're moving Booker you need young players with real upside, not meh filler and crappy picks. You can try to get picks to supplement the package but since the Suns dont have their own picks, dumping him for picks only isnt going to help much. You have to have a real on-court building block or two coming back (and solid vet(s)). At that point you're "rebuilding" but not in the traditional way (just tanking for a good draft pick). I like Miles McBride ok but hes not close to the level of prospect needed.

Tell the Knicks to get bent. Randle and picks does nothing for us. If Book wants a major city, then send him to Houston. They have a ton of things that make them interesting trade partners. Multiple high level players that will fit with KD+Beal along with a variety of picks....

Which includes BRK picks for all of those posters (foolishly) interested in tearing this thing down and tanking. We can see about giving them their picks back for ours.

[Ghost of Kleine]

All I heard from that media session with Matt Ishbia was 40+ minutes was basically nonstop disingenuous double talk deflective statements and delusionally innacurate perspectives of our situation and future. The whole interview basically had Ishbia looking like a disingenous, duplicitous, arrogant, delusional con artist quick talking sleazy car salesman trying to spin reality/facts to make things appear much better than it truly is. Apparently everyone else is wrong about the suns situation BECAUSE:

1- Ishbia says there a championship team that is in a great situation and we'll be in an even better situation next season. And if you just take the historically embarassing playoff losses from last year and this year out of the discussion, the team looks great!

2- He feels really great about all the decisions, trades, moves, etc he and Jones have made the last 15 months. And that 26 other GMs' would love to switch their rosters, picks and situation in general with ours.

3- We have all the great talent and picks/ assets we need to win a championship and improve our roster. And if you just ask 29 other teams, He believes 29 other GMs would have made the exact same moves and decisions as they made.

4- Draft picks are to get stars and they still have 5 picks and even two picks this summer that they can trade if they choose to and improve the roster. He goes on to mock the fans who are upset about us mortgaging our future by giving uop all of our picks to win now, and says you have fans that are upset that we don't have picks and are looking at some 7th grade kid and saying he'll be a star someday. BUT they (he and Jones) aren't frocusing on the future at all, but rather they're only focusinbg on "the now" and winning a championship now. They'll continue to operate this way because they're in the business of winning championships now and aren't worried about the future.

5- He goes on to say that the narrative that the suns are in trouble and the "house is on fire" is absolutely inaccurate and the suns are again in a great position that 29 of the other tams would love to be in!!

6- He says that he doesn't know if the reports of Vogel wanting a point guard all season, but believes the reports are inaccurate. And goes onto say that he defers those things to Jones expertise, but that most people would argue that you'd want the ball to stay in the big threes hands! and that the opposition would likely prefer that someone else aside from the big three had the ball, implying the advantage is those three pounding the ball instead of a legit guard tablesetting things.

7- He keeps saying that thy can't pinpoint what went wrong due to many factors, and never expounds or identifies any viable solution. But then also goes on to say they just need more time playing together over and over again as some kind of blanket solution for chemistry issues and their dysfunctional roster issues. And also indirectly tries to blame early injuries for their not having much better success and possibly ending the season as a #1 seed.

8- He then deflects the question of accountability for those decisions by referencing the new TV deal, footprint center renovation, and off the court decisions.

9- He talks about his intent to be the best franchise in all of sports and not just the NBA. But that they care about being the best!

10- He says that players want to come here! Because Phoenix, the fans, the franchise is so great and cool!

11- He says the discussions of possibly blowing it up just because we didn't win a championship are crazy and ridiculous.

12- He says our team this year as opposed to last years' team that lost to Denver is much better and it isn't even close! Although we didn't win it all!

And the James Jones interview was just more of the same generic BS deflective responses, rationalizing their ineptitude, making lame excuses about our struggles being a product of injury issues and lack of contiunity. and just goes on to deflect and/or spin things with open ended responses, and vague answers. Or says things like it could be like this and we could benefit from this or that, but at the same time, who would that be that they should look at? says he couldn't identify one issue for their collapse, but then mentions injury issues and says that the Wolves were just better than they were/ (are) He says that they'll only look at things from year to year! Jones goes onto say that the playoffs is about your three best players doing well, and that it's rare for a team with only one or two elite players to win consistently for multiple seasons. Talks about just having 1-15 getting on the same page as a means for winning championships for multiple years. He says it's a talent based league and talent wins championships.

Once you've been through the fire together, communicate better, then you "trust" and become unbeatable. He claims our chemistry and continuity will be great next season. He goes on to say that they have the necessary assets to continue adding players at positions that will make us better! KLeeps repeating time and continuity, chemistry as a likely solution. Also says that he isn't looking to 2031, but looking at right now and winning a championship.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

This tells me that Frank Vogel will be fired.

I don't like to hear that "our starting five will be back" because we would have to study every avenue trying to improve the roster.

I understand that Book, KD and Allen (because of his extension) are probably a sure thing on the team next year but we would need to be open to trade Beal and Nurkic.

Beal could be really difficult to trade, we know, but we can AT LEAST try to do it. Nurkic is on a fair deal so he could be traded easily for equal value.

And obviously everything that Ishbia said can be false and just a free talk...we will see in the offseason.

I think everything is on the table short of trading Book and KD. I think trading Allen is on teh table too (not this offseason but when he becomes trade eligible). Beal will be difficult to move and we'll likely test Nurk's market but as I've said before, the single most effective move you can make is changing the coach. When you' are bound by the salary cap, trade rules and a myriad of other limitations when signing/trading players, a coaching change is the most straightforward move you can make; that could be like adding a star player.

[thamadkant]

The Ishiba and Jones press conference was damage control 101. They know fans are livid and needed reassurance that the team is fine and will be fine.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Theres a world where moving Booker is a thing but man the Knicks would not be someone I'd want to deal him to...just nothing attractive that they'd be able to send back.

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

Maybe if JJ was fired before we got those picks

Yeah! Because if he isn't, he'll have the genius idea to trade each of them for impact vet min garbage time players because he doesn't trust building from the draft! And clearly his decisions and our buffoon of an owners' decisions have really paid off for us!

[bwgood77]

All I heard from that media session with Matt Ishbia was 40+ minutes was basically nonstop disingenuous double talk deflective statements and delusionally innacurate perspectives of our situation and future. The whole interview basically had Ishbia looking like a disingenous, duplicitous, arrogant, delusional con artist quick talking sleazy car salesman trying to spin reality/facts to make things appear much better than it truly is. Apparently everyone else is wrong about the suns situation BECAUSE:

1- Ishbia says there a championship team that is in a great situation and we'll be in an even better situation next season. And if you just take the historically embarassing playoff losses from last year and this year out of the discussion, the team looks great!

2- He feels really great about all the decisions, trades, moves, etc he and Jones have made the last 15 months. And that 26 other GMs' would love to switch their rosters, picks and situation in general with ours.

3- We have all the great talent and picks/ assets we need to win a championship and improve our roster. And if you just ask 29 other teams, He believes 29 other GMs would have made the exact same moves and decisions as they made.

4- Draft picks are to get stars and they still have 5 picks and even two picks this summer that they can trade if they choose to and improve the roster. He goes on to mock the fans who are upset about us mortgaging our future by giving uop all of our picks to win now, and says you have fans that are upset that we don't have picks and are looking at some 7th grade kid and saying he'll be a star someday. BUT they (he and Jones) aren't frocusing on the future at all, but rather they're only focusinbg on "the now" and winning a championship now. They'll continue to operate this way because they're in the business of winning championships now and aren't worried about the future.

5- He goes on to say that the narrative that the suns are in trouble and the "house is on fire" is absolutely inaccurate and the suns are again in a great position that 29 of the other tams would love to be in!!

6- He says that he doesn't know if the reports of Vogel wanting a point guard all season, but believes the reports are inaccurate. And goes onto say that he defers those things to Jones expertise, but that most people would argue that you'd want the ball to stay in the big threes hands! and that the opposition would likely prefer that someone else aside from the big three had the ball, implying the advantage is those three pounding the ball instead of a legit guard tablesetting things.

7- He keeps saying that thy can't pinpoint what went wrong due to many factors, and never expounds or identifies any viable solution. But then also goes on to say they just need more time playing together over and over again as some kind of blanket solution for chemistry issues and their dysfunctional roster issues. And also indirectly tries to blame early injuries for their not having much better success and possibly ending the season as a #1 seed.

8- He then deflects the question of accountability for those decisions by referencing the new TV deal, footprint center renovation, and off the court decisions.

9- He talks about his intent to be the best franchise in all of sports and not just the NBA. But that they care about being the best!

10- He says that players want to come here! Because Phoenix, the fans, the franchise is so great and cool!

11- He says the discussions of possibly blowing it up just because we didn't win a championship are crazy and ridiculous.

12- He says our team this year as opposed to last years' team that lost to Denver is much better and it isn't even close! Although we didn't win it all!

And the James Jones interview was just more of the same generic BS deflective responses, rationalizing their ineptitude, making lame excuses about our struggles being a product of injury issues and lack of contiunity. and just goes on to deflect and/or spin things with open ended responses, and vague answers. Or says things like it could be like this and we could benefit from this or that, but at the same time, who would that be that they should look at? says he couldn't identify one issue for their collapse, but then mentions injury issues and says that the Wolves were just better than they were/ (are) He says that they'll only look at things from year to year! Jones goes onto say that the playoffs is about your three best players doing well, and that it's rare for a team with only one or two elite players to win consistently for multiple seasons. Talks about just having 1-15 getting on the same page as a means for winning championships for multiple years. He says it's a talent based league and talent wins championships.

Once you've been through the fire together, communicate better, then you "trust" and become unbeatable. He claims our chemistry and continuity will be great next season. He goes on to say that they have the necessary assets to continue adding players at positions that will make us better! KLeeps repeating time and continuity, chemistry as a likely solution. Also says that he isn't looking to 2031, but looking at right now and winning a championship.

Did he really say this? What universe is this dude living in? Damn, I'm scared for this franchise as long as he owns it. Then again, he did say before last trade deadline he won't mortgage the future and then promptly traded our future for old, injured KD.

[Ghost of Kleine]

The Ishiba and Jones press conference was damage control 101. They know fans are livid and needed reassurance that the team is fine and will be fine.

Perhaps? But who in their right mind would actually buy into the BS they're shoveling down everyones' throats given the actual facts of everything we've seen the entire year and the ending results too. And that's aside from our zero "tangible" assets and no cap flexibility while also carrying the most expensive in NBA history, and having aging, declining or injury prone superstars , and no young promising talent that we've developed on our roster either. All they both kept saying is how this team is in a great position and a championship contender and how they have assets to improve the team and will make moves going forward to improve the roster. But never once did they offer any idea at all of how they think they'll actually accomplish these miracles.

It's like they both talk out of their azzes so much that they are actually beginning to believe their own BS to completely delusional levels!! But reality isn't disappearing anytime soon, and the facts are right in everyone's faces.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Why isn't Vogel fired yesterday?

Apart from that everything else is fine (that he said).

No trading Booker is not better.

[SunsRback4Good]

Why isn't Vogel fired yesterday?

Apart from that everything else is fine.

No trading Booker is not better.

Let the team and Vogel relax a week better getting canned. I swear people don’t have patience anymore they want to see results after a day or two of being eliminated from the playoffs. Now a days nobody has patience it’s frankly sad we live in such a sad world.

[SunsRback4Good]

Thank you Slim! I am your biggest supporter I read all your posts.

[garrick]

The Ishiba and Jones press conference was damage control 101. They know fans are livid and needed reassurance that the team is fine and will be fine.

Perhaps? But who in their right mind would actually buy into the BS they're shoveling down everyones' throats given the actual facts of everything we've seen the entire year and the ending results too. And that's aside from our zero "tangible" assets and no cap flexibility while also carrying the most expensive in NBA history, and having aging, declining or injury prone superstars , and no young promising talent that we've developed on our roster either. All they both kept saying is how this team is in a great position and a championship contender and how they have assets to improve the team and will make moves going forward to improve the roster. But never once did they offer any idea at all of how they think they'll actually accomplish these miracles.

It's like they both talk out of their azzes so much that they are actually beginning to believe their own BS to completely delusional levels!! But reality isn't disappearing anytime soon, and the facts are right in everyone's faces.

This is who Ishbia is unfortunately.

His employees said he's a guy who gets off delusional positivity and gets high off his own farts.

It makes me sick that we also have a GM in JJ who does similarly and is all talk and no action. Truly delusional but if you go to Suns reditt there are a lot of fans that actually believe this nonsense.

[lilfishi22]

Why isn't Vogel fired yesterday?

Apart from that everything else is fine (that he said).

No trading Booker is not better.

I think we will but I think it gives off a super reactive image of the organisation. The way the owner has flown back to talk to everyone to evaluate and then make decisions is a more measured approach. Who knows, perhaps Ishbia flying back was in part to fire Vogel in person, rather than over the phone or through some sort of email.

[dremill24]

Yeah ideally I want Brunson back if Knicks want Booker.

But if Knicks offer 5 First Rounders and filler, that would be very tempting.

I'd have to disagree. For me, if you're moving Booker you need young players with real upside, not meh filler and crappy picks. You can try to get picks to supplement the package but since the Suns dont have their own picks, dumping him for picks only isnt going to help much. You have to have a real on-court building block or two coming back (and solid vet(s)). At that point you're "rebuilding" but not in the traditional way (just tanking for a good draft pick). I like Miles McBride ok but hes not close to the level of prospect needed.

Tell the Knicks to get bent. Randle and picks does nothing for us. If Book wants a major city, then send him to Houston. They have a ton of things that make them interesting trade partners. Multiple high level players that will fit with KD+Beal along with a variety of picks....

Which includes BRK picks for all of those posters (foolishly) interested in tearing this thing down and tanking. We can see about giving them their picks back for ours.

Houston is who I have circled too. I love Thompson (though there is serious downside risk there). I like Jabari and Brooks too. Dont think it matters much...dont see Devin being moved.

[TeamTragic]

Why isn't Vogel fired yesterday?

Apart from that everything else is fine (that he said).

No trading Booker is not better.

Because our preferred replacement might still be coaching in the playoffs or maybe waiting for free agency decisions that will impact the roster.

You don't fire a coach unless you have candidates ready to accept the job.

[Ghost of Kleine]

All I heard from that media session with Matt Ishbia was 40+ minutes was basically nonstop disingenuous double talk deflective statements and delusionally innacurate perspectives of our situation and future. The whole interview basically had Ishbia looking like a disingenous, duplicitous, arrogant, delusional con artist quick talking sleazy car salesman trying to spin reality/facts to make things appear much better than it truly is. Apparently everyone else is wrong about the suns situation BECAUSE:

1- Ishbia says there a championship team that is in a great situation and we'll be in an even better situation next season. And if you just take the historically embarassing playoff losses from last year and this year out of the discussion, the team looks great!

2- He feels really great about all the decisions, trades, moves, etc he and Jones have made the last 15 months. And that 26 other GMs' would love to switch their rosters, picks and situation in general with ours.

3- We have all the great talent and picks/ assets we need to win a championship and improve our roster. And if you just ask 29 other teams, He believes 29 other GMs would have made the exact same moves and decisions as they made.

4- Draft picks are to get stars and they still have 5 picks and even two picks this summer that they can trade if they choose to and improve the roster. He goes on to mock the fans who are upset about us mortgaging our future by giving uop all of our picks to win now, and says you have fans that are upset that we don't have picks and are looking at some 7th grade kid and saying he'll be a star someday. BUT they (he and Jones) aren't frocusing on the future at all, but rather they're only focusinbg on "the now" and winning a championship now. They'll continue to operate this way because they're in the business of winning championships now and aren't worried about the future.

5- He goes on to say that the narrative that the suns are in trouble and the "house is on fire" is absolutely inaccurate and the suns are again in a great position that 29 of the other tams would love to be in!!

6- He says that he doesn't know if the reports of Vogel wanting a point guard all season, but believes the reports are inaccurate. And goes onto say that he defers those things to Jones expertise, but that most people would argue that you'd want the ball to stay in the big threes hands! and that the opposition would likely prefer that someone else aside from the big three had the ball, implying the advantage is those three pounding the ball instead of a legit guard tablesetting things.

7- He keeps saying that thy can't pinpoint what went wrong due to many factors, and never expounds or identifies any viable solution. But then also goes on to say they just need more time playing together over and over again as some kind of blanket solution for chemistry issues and their dysfunctional roster issues. And also indirectly tries to blame early injuries for their not having much better success and possibly ending the season as a #1 seed.

8- He then deflects the question of accountability for those decisions by referencing the new TV deal, footprint center renovation, and off the court decisions.

9- He talks about his intent to be the best franchise in all of sports and not just the NBA. But that they care about being the best!

10- He says that players want to come here! Because Phoenix, the fans, the franchise is so great and cool!

11- He says the discussions of possibly blowing it up just because we didn't win a championship are crazy and ridiculous.

12- He says our team this year as opposed to last years' team that lost to Denver is much better and it isn't even close! Although we didn't win it all!

And the James Jones interview was just more of the same generic BS deflective responses, rationalizing their ineptitude, making lame excuses about our struggles being a product of injury issues and lack of contiunity. and just goes on to deflect and/or spin things with open ended responses, and vague answers. Or says things like it could be like this and we could benefit from this or that, but at the same time, who would that be that they should look at? says he couldn't identify one issue for their collapse, but then mentions injury issues and says that the Wolves were just better than they were/ (are) He says that they'll only look at things from year to year! Jones goes onto say that the playoffs is about your three best players doing well, and that it's rare for a team with only one or two elite players to win consistently for multiple seasons. Talks about just having 1-15 getting on the same page as a means for winning championships for multiple years. He says it's a talent based league and talent wins championships.

Once you've been through the fire together, communicate better, then you "trust" and become unbeatable. He claims our chemistry and continuity will be great next season. He goes on to say that they have the necessary assets to continue adding players at positions that will make us better! KLeeps repeating time and continuity, chemistry as a likely solution. Also says that he isn't looking to 2031, but looking at right now and winning a championship.

Did he really say this? What universe is this dude living in? Damn, I'm scared for this franchise as long as he owns it. Then again, he did say before last trade deadline he won't mortgage the future and then promptly traded our future for old, injured KD.

Read on Twitter

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10119498-suns-mat-ishbia-26-other-nba-gms-would-trade-their-whole-team-for-our-whole-team

Suns' Mat Ishbia: 26 Other NBA GMs 'Would Trade Their Whole Team for Our Whole Team'

JULIA STUMBAUGH
MAY 1, 2024
Phoenix Suns governor Mat Ishbia says he is confident in his team's construction despite it being swept by the Minnesota Timberwolves in the first round of the NBA playoffs.

"Ask the other 29 GMs— 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our draft picks and everything as is," Ishbia said Wednesday, per The Athletic's Doug Haller. "The house is not on fire. We're in great position. It's not hard to fix. It's not like we're like, 'Hey, we don't have enough talent to win a championship.' We have enough talent to win a championship."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40066112/mat-ishbia-says-phoenix-suns-great-position-declines-address-frank-vogel-status

"I feel like the narrative around [here is] the house is burning, it's incorrect," Ishbia said. "... Fans like to look in the future and say, 'Hey, I really like that 2031 draft pick because maybe that seventh grader is going to be really good and we're going to draft him and one day he's going to be a player.'"

He later added, "Five in the next eight years, we have a first-round draft pick. I know that's not a cool thing to say out there because people like to say their narratives that we have no draft picks, but we have five in the next eight years and we can trade two of 'em next month if we want. So it is not like people say we have no flexibility." Jones agreed, saying, "Going into this offseason, we have everything we need to be able to add the players or the positions that will make us better."


Ishbia also defended the high price of the trades that the team made -- notably for Beal and Durant.

"You look back at some of the trades that James and all of us were part of -- we do those things a 100 out of a 100 times, not 99 out of a 100, a 100 out of a 100," Ishbia said. "And we still do 'em again. And I think [the] other 29 GMs would all do the exact same thing. We feel great about the moves we've made on the court, off the court and we're really proud of it."

Ishbia said there was accountability, including himself, after a season where the team failed to meet high expectations.

"Let's be real -- ask the other 29 GMs [in the NBA], 26 of them would trade their whole team for our whole team and our draft picks as is. The house is not on fire. We're in a great position. It's not hard to fix. We have enough talent to win a championship." He said that the team's issues -- and he cited health and overall newness together -- were "extremely fixable."
Suns owner Mat Ishbia

And James Jones reiterating Ishbias' sentiment
https://www.12news.com/article/sports/nba/suns/mat-ishbia-offseason-plans-phoenix-suns/75-094bf552-24ae-4cc4-af88-fe932b03216f

General Manager James Jones echoed the belief in his head coach and players.

"Going into this offseason, we have everything that we need to be able to add the players, or the positions, to make us better," Jones said. "We're talking about elite players who want to win saying, 'How can we win today?'