The Official 2024 Offseason Thread

[bullsaficianado]

Wait to see if Minnesota sweeps Denver before firing Vogel. If they do sweep Denver than Suns just ran into a juggernaut of a team.

[Djedefre]

Vogel is just not good enough. He can't do sh** with this roster and that is a fact. Everybody and their dog knew it was a huge mistake the day he was hired. But it doesn't matter anyway, 'cuz with our disinterested and flegmatic 'stars' there can be no victory, as wise ol' Denethor would say.

[SunsRback4Good]

Wait to see if Minnesota sweeps Denver before firing Vogel. If they do sweep Denver than Suns just ran into a juggernaut of a team.

Minnesota is not even good. The Seven seconds or less suns would beat them in 5 games.

[Djedefre]

Wait to see if Minnesota sweeps Denver before firing Vogel. If they do sweep Denver than Suns just ran into a juggernaut of a team.

Minnesota is not even good. The Seven seconds or less suns would beat them in 5 games.

Yeah, this collective masturbation to TWolves needs to stop. We were absolutely atrocious, and Denver plays practically without any contribution from Murray the whole playoffs so far, and they are objectively worse team than last year. And even having said all that, i'm sure Nuggets won't be dealt with so easily.

[Revived]

James Jones/Matt Ishbia decisions lol

[sunskerr]

Watch on YouTube

[King4Day]

James Jones/Matt Ishbia decisions lol

I heard it was the sticking point for the Blazers to make that deal. I'm not sure I buy that because I remember seeing the Goodwin rumor too, but regardless, that was a major loss for us.

[King4Day]

I supposed one positive of keeping Vogel and having a mid offseason is that expectations will be very low and I don't have to stress about them next season.

[TeamTragic]

I supposed one positive of keeping Vogel and having a mid offseason is that expectations will be very low and I don't have to stress about them next season.

I mean in theory but the media will absolutely destroy this team.

[Slim Charless]

I guess nobody wants to coach this team?

YIKES

Vogel isn't the problem. Players have to play. Fix the fit between the players and problem is solve.

There needs to be a VERY good reason to fire a coach after 1 year. Vogel hasn't given me one to fire him after 1 season.

Dude, you know you don't have to be contrarian right?

Lol. I'm serious though.

Vogel is not the problem. The issue here is the fit and too many players with overlapping skills. What we need here is more dirty work guys and players that will complement our Big 3. That, or a trade of 1 of them.

Either way, it's how they work that's the issue. It's kind of mishmash unit of individuals. Booker needs to take a back seat to KD and Beal needs to accept a spot coming off the bench.

[lilfishi22]

I supposed one positive of keeping Vogel and having a mid offseason is that expectations will be very low and I don't have to stress about them next season.

I mean in theory but the media will absolutely destroy this team.

Just don't watch/read into it

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

While I understand taking a measured approach and seeing if there are better candidates available (Lue ), I still think the optics are pretty poor. The idea that we are basically just seeing if someone better becomes available and if not, we stick with Vogel, shows we don't actually have full confidence in Vogel and on the other side, Vogel is now in an organisation that doesn't believe in him. It's kind of a lose/lose situation for both sides.

I think I would've preferred it if we just let him go and gone with a coach who is more offensively focused even if overall they may not be a better coach than Vogel. But it is what it is

[TeamTragic]

This sure is taking a long time which doesn't bode well for Vogel.

Hopefully we are doing a deep dive on this past season.

[lilfishi22]

Aaahh
That felt good sabes. A GD warm fuzzy. Like an enema applied with gentle hands of a scantily clad nurse. Oooo

Yes… how could i forget all those good things. Dude, you be trolling

I get it … its your schtick. But your head is up your azzz if you cant see we will be worse before we are better. This team is on the verge of being dangerously dysfunctional, more so, and i didnt think it was possible, than the Dark Sarver yrs.

Lol

Paying the luxury tax?
G-League team?
Games for free in TV?
Ring of Honor for Matrix and STAT?
Practice facility for the Mercury?
Flopping against Jokic and getting a tech from him? That was funny and effective.

And the list goes on and on... but yeah, keep selling to other people that he is the devil and all the other 29 owners are angels.

I think Ishia has done a lot for the franchise in the 15-16mths he's been an owner. He's made mistakes, some bigs ones, but no owner is faultless and I think all the things you've listed should give him more leeway with the fans even if they aren't directly leading to on court wins.

My hope is that he learns from his mistakes and also take a more measured and less flashy approach to ownership because ultimately, he cannot bring a new G-League team into the fold every year, he can't built a new facility every year, he can't introduce that free TV thing every year, he can't re-induct Trix/Stat into the ROH every year etc etc. All the GREAT things he's done that has brought him so much goodwill over these past 15-16mths or so is awesome but not sustainable and at some point, that goodwill will disappear if he can't build a successful team (not necessarily a title but much better than a 1st round sweep)

[bwgood77]

Honestly, looking at the top rankings of coaching candidates, the only names like are Chris Quinn and Budenholzer. I am not sure how he is with offense, but any right hand man of Spoelstra I trust.

Then honestly I would go with Budenholzer. He is strictly a spread the floor offensive guy who wants his team to shoot a lot of 3s. He did great things with that Hawks team despite them not having the talent...he took them as far as he could...but of course they ran into prime LeBron and Kyrie.

Then in Milwaukee he dominated....he took over a team coached by Kidd that went 44-38 and went to 60 wins...and went 8-1 in the first two rounds before losing to the Kawhi-led Raptors, who were dominating in the playoffs.

The following year they were completely dominating in the regular season...I remember Zach Lowe writing about how their ratings was miles ahead of second place and they were just killing it. But then the COVID break happened and there were months off, and they were not quite the same team when they came back....they still got the 1 seed going 56-17 and this was a team without a ton of talent outside of Giannis and Middleton. They had Bledsoe, Lopez (who only shot 31% from 3 that year) and then Wesley Matthews and a 2nd year DiVincenzo.

So it's not like he had much depth, with his 3rd of 4th best player being Bledsoe and then quite a drop off after that.

Then he gets Jrue and Portis and as we all know, wins the finals.

He knows offense. He knows how to get players to spread the floor and hit 3s. the Bucks didn't even have great 3 pt shooters. We do.

I think with him and our offensive weapons, we would destroy teams on offense.

I know Bucks fans complained about him because they had a great record and lost in the playoffs to Miami, but the talent top to bottom wasn't that strong, and he really overachieved in the regular season with the talent they had.

And unlike us, after going to the ECF and then losing in the 2nd round, they retooled, and won the championship.

Quinn might have us more disciplined, and better defensively, and I started this post saying I think Quinn is the best choice, but the more I think about it, I think Bud is by far the best choice. Lue might be better, but out of guys out there, we should hire Bud. He would be MUCH MUCH better than Vogel.

[Puff]

Vogel isn't the problem. Players have to play. Fix the fit between the players and problem is solve.

There needs to be a VERY good reason to fire a coach after 1 year. Vogel hasn't given me one to fire him after 1 season.

Dude, you know you don't have to be contrarian right?

Lol. I'm serious though.

Vogel is not the problem. The issue here is the fit and too many players with overlapping skills. What we need here is more dirty work guys and players that will complement our Big 3. That, or a trade of 1 of them.

Either way, it's how they work that's the issue. It's kind of mishmash unit of individuals. Booker needs to take a back seat to KD and Beal needs to accept a spot coming off the bench.

Has any team won a chip with a 3-guard starting lineup not including a PG? I don't think so.

As I have mentioned previously the biggest need is to get bigger. That specifically is directed at the starting lineup. Last years team suffered from getting less shots than their opponents a nightly basis. We also shot better from the field than our opponents. We also did not do well on fast break points so why not have everyone onboard to get the defensive board. The size issue cannot be fixed by Vogel. The effort level should be solved by Vogel. He really seem to have issues in the locker room. That said I do not like Fizdale at all and questioned Kevin Young's hire as lead assistant. Once I hired Vogel I would have let Young walk. Someone is causing a fracture in the locker room and that has to be fixed. Is it a coach or is it a player?

If they dump the 3 guard offense while getting someone in the mold of Jaden McDaniels that is willing to bring heat every minute of every game we might have a chance to turn this thing around with Vogel.

[Puff]

what in the world was JJ smoking when he didn't select Haliburton?

[Frank Lee]

Haliburton with 23 and 5 at the half… yeah Jones, im talking to you

Good luck finding another mcDaniels on the scrap heap pile

[lilfishi22]

Honestly, looking at the top rankings of coaching candidates, the only names like are Chris Quinn and Budenholzer. I am not sure how he is with offense, but any right hand man of Spoelstra I trust.

Then honestly I would go with Budenholzer. He is strictly a spread the floor offensive guy who wants his team to shoot a lot of 3s. He did great things with that Hawks team despite them not having the talent...he took them as far as he could...but of course they ran into prime LeBron and Kyrie.

Then in Milwaukee he dominated....he took over a team coached by Kidd that went 44-38 and went to 60 wins...and went 8-1 in the first two rounds before losing to the Kawhi-led Raptors, who were dominating in the playoffs.

The following year they were completely dominating in the regular season...I remember Zach Lowe writing about how their ratings was miles ahead of second place and they were just killing it. But then the COVID break happened and there were months off, and they were not quite the same team when they came back....they still got the 1 seed going 56-17 and this was a team without a ton of talent outside of Giannis and Middleton. They had Bledsoe, Lopez (who only shot 31% from 3 that year) and then Wesley Matthews and a 2nd year DiVincenzo.

So it's not like he had much depth, with his 3rd of 4th best player being Bledsoe and then quite a drop off after that.

Then he gets Jrue and Portis and as we all know, wins the finals.

He knows offense. He knows how to get players to spread the floor and hit 3s. the Bucks didn't even have great 3 pt shooters. We do.

I think with him and our offensive weapons, we would destroy teams on offense.

I know Bucks fans complained about him because they had a great record and lost in the playoffs to Miami, but the talent top to bottom wasn't that strong, and he really overachieved in the regular season with the talent they had.

And unlike us, after going to the ECF and then losing in the 2nd round, they retooled, and won the championship.

Quinn might have us more disciplined, and better defensively, and I started this post saying I think Quinn is the best choice, but the more I think about it, I think Bud is by far the best choice. Lue might be better, but out of guys out there, we should hire Bud. He would be MUCH MUCH better than Vogel.

I'm not the biggest Bud fan but honestly, he's just a better fit than Vogel. Even when Vogel was hired it was an odd fit given he's more of a defensive focused guy and they tried to make it work by throwing Young in as the offensive mind. For all the Bud blunders in the playoffs, I do really like the offense he runs and I think he does have the ability to get a lot of balance and output out of the team (ie that ATL team had no one averaging more than 16.7ppg) and given our situation, we need everyone to be contributing.

I don't really know enough about Quinn to have an opinion. I know a few teams were looking at him not too long ago but either he decided to stick with Miami for now or those teams decided to go in a different direction.

[Frank Lee]

The diva three may not be coachable… they do what they want… i mean, how do you tell KD to pass when he can iso on just about everybody. Book not so much, but he cant go three-four possessions without shooting.