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Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1)

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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#441 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:32 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:
I think we all knew you were right - if you live and die by the jumper, you *really* live or die by the 3 ball.


I wish I had a time machine so I could force them to draft DAJ instead of RoLo. That would have made an IMMENSE difference.

If the team is playing well enough maybe Sarver will add a piece to really improve the team.


I'd love to believe that.

Screw this game - one out of 82. We got time to get better and already better than we had any right to expect.


Phoenix is going to have a very successful regular season on the strength of its offense, of that, I do not doubt. I look forward to it, actually. They are going to have to find some rebounding, though. Maybe Grant Hill will maintain this rebounding spree of his, and maybe not, but they need some help and some size.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#442 » by JohnVancouver » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:35 pm

LV-Suns wrote:Got me a new nice avatar :D



Best thing tonight, for sure - I about fell off the couch when I saw it.
And I was really impressed with how hard JRich worked on Kobe.

What we need to do now is - figure out a way to play the Lakers. Chances are we will have a real good chance to ruing their season at some point.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#443 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:43 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:I saw those teams play, also the West/Wilt Lakers and Detroit with Laimbeer, Isiah etc.
All of them would take this squad and the Bird Celtics and Showtime lakers would embarass them.


I wouldn't go that far, "embarrass" is a large word.

The West/Wilt Lakers would be an interesting matchup, to be sure, as would the Bird/Magic teams of the 80s.

The 70s Lakers would be interesting; are we talking with or without Baylor?

As to the 80s teams... what year? After 85, I don't think the Lakers matchup against Kobe's boys as well as you'd think. Kareem's rebounding and defense were tailing off pretty sharply by that point, and I doubt very strongly that Michael Cooper would have a lot of success against Kobe in isolation defense. He was a great defender, but great defense does not always trump great offense, especially now that Kobe's making use of the post more. Coop wasn't a hot post defender.

Who do they put on Worthy? Artest, probably. So who guards Gasol? One of Gasol/Bynum at least is going to go off on them. You put Kareem on Gasol, Bynum cleans up and vice versa. The showtime PF was AC Green for the peak period of Magic's career. And the Nixon/Silk/Kupchak Lakers were a lot more vulnerable to the current Lakers (balanced by the better editions of a younger Kareem).

I think the Showtime boys would win a 7-game series, but "embarrass" is the wrong choice of words.

The Celtics were set up to handle them a lot better; the Chief and McHale would be a lot more effective against Gasol and Bynum. Bird vs. Artest wouldn't be an issue because Bird was taller, a great shooter and awesome at off-ball movement and using screens (and also posting up defenders of any size).

DJ/Ainge wouldn't be able to contain Kobe, but who could? The rotational help of the bigs would be a lot better than any individual backcourt defender, any how. I'd expect the Celtics to win a series against Kobe's Lakers. I'd expect Boston to go 4-2. I'd expect the Showtime Lakers to maybe go 4-2 but more likely 4-3, health pending on both sides.

Detroit would get totally screwed.

Their defense would be considerably undermined in the modern era, but if you flip the switch and play them in the 80s, Kobe in the post wouldn't mind that so much. He's accustomed to multiple coverage and it would actually be easier for him to post because of the differing rules regarding multiple coverage. Meantime, Laimbeer isn't going to do enough to stop Bynum or Gasol (and neither are Rodman or Mahorn; Rodman's wasted on either player because they aren't iso scorers nor primary options). The Pistons would not win a series against these Lakers, bench issues or no, as long as the current Lakers were healthy.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#444 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:45 pm

thapharcyd wrote:Soooo... I have something to say... it is obvious STAT is not a MAX contract player... A MAX contract player doesn't come into a big game and throw up 2-15... a MAX contract player would of showed up and made Bynum his bitch...

THE END


Good point, Amar'e was nowhere to be found last night. I say no way he opts out of his guaranteed 18 million and we're dealing with this dilemma next season too.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#445 » by JohnVancouver » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:46 pm

tsherkin wrote:
JohnVancouver wrote:
I think we all knew you were right - if you live and die by the jumper, you *really* live or die by the 3 ball.


I wish I had a time machine so I could force them to draft DAJ instead of RoLo. That would have made an IMMENSE difference.


--- Oh my, yes, would be nice. But maybe our boy will be another Dragic and suddenly blossom.


Screw this game - one out of 82. We got time to get better and already better than we had any right to expect.


Phoenix is going to have a very successful regular season on the strength of its offense, of that, I do not doubt. I look forward to it, actually. They are going to have to find some rebounding, though. Maybe Grant Hill will maintain this rebounding spree of his, and maybe not, but they need some help and some size.


Yup - one strong piece. Maybe Collins will see that that's what he can bring, though I don't think he has the skills even if he has the smarts and desire.
I do really believe though that this loss can be a real good thing for the Suns.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#446 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:46 pm

LV-Suns wrote:Got me a new nice avatar :D



Noooooice. I think that woman ref is now currently the worst one out there. She's always making bs calls against us.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#447 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:50 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:I don't like to give excuses and I won't. Truth is, we didn't come out to win and that's why we lost. BurningHeart is right, we came out flat and even though it's a b2b, most of our starters had plenty of rest from the blowout of NOH.

Either way, right now we're 1-2 against contenders. Which is nothing new if anyone has been following the Suns the past half decade.



Sorry to triple post but I had to correct this. Miami is a contender for sure this year and we beat them as well. I'd say 2-2 vs contenders which is exceeding expectations so far.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#448 » by justinb80 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:58 pm

While I don't think Amare is a max contract player (I really only think Kobe and LeBron are ... maybe Wade), I think it's unfair to judge his unworthiness based on one game. Every superstar has a stink bomb every once in a while.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#449 » by le crapaud » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:59 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:
tsherkin wrote:Who else is beginning to see my point about this team's defense? And about shooting slumps affecting the team?


I think we all knew you were right - if you live and die by the jumper, you *really* live or die by the 3 ball.
This is a very inspiring, overachieving team, capable of beating better teams on any night. That's what we are - over the course of a season we may get better. If the team is playing well enough maybe Sarver will add a piece to really improve the team.

Even without Gasol they're shutting us down. Tired is a factor, sure but it's really just the simple truth that they're a better team. They should be - defending champs and all.

Screw this game - one out of 82. We got time to get better and already better than we had any right to expect.


True. Besides, we have to admit that the lakers were very very disciplined sticking to their gameplan by switching on every pick & roll or pop. We all know spacing is the success key of our team, and there was absolutely no room to find some kind of rythm. And rythm offensively gives us rythm defensively.
If you add the fact that they were also disciplined and patient in the offensive end...I have to say, Bynum played great, looked very impressive even if we don't have a very good low post big guy defender.

I liked the effort of J-Rich defensively on Kobe, sure it wasn't enough but at least he tried. Hopefully he'll stay with this mindset in near future and try to stay in the game by not being frustrated.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#450 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:42 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:Sorry to triple post but I had to correct this. Miami is a contender for sure this year and we beat them as well. I'd say 2-2 vs contenders which is exceeding expectations so far.


A contender for what? Wade's awesome, but they aren't that good overall. Pretty record so far, sure, but wait for it. JO hasn't played more than 69 games since playing 78 games in the 03-04 season. He's older, injury-prone and going to break down. Since playing 78 games, he's averaged just under 55 games a season, playing less than 45 games twice. He's averaging about 14/8 for them and has been playing pretty good defense. Mario Chalmers is shooting 48% from downtown, which won't last.

Wade is drawing 13 FTA/g, which is unlikely to continue over the season. Possible, but not especially likely. They're relying a great deal on Wade's individual scoring, which is not a recipe for contention. Their second-best scoring option is beneath 14 ppg. Perhaps they should trust Beasley more, but in any case, that team is so far from contention, they aren't even guaranteed to get out of the first round.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#451 » by JohnVancouver » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:40 pm

Tyler - fair enough, I overstated it. The Wilt?West (sans Baylor ) teams would be a very good against them. I still think Detroit would just manhandle the current Lakers.
The Showtime Lakers of '85, say, would be a 6-7 game winner and the Celtics with the Chief, mchale, Johnson etc - Cornbread! - would crush them. Those Boston teams were so tough

Frankly, my take on these guys is skewed because I hate them - aside from Farmar, Ammo, a couple other, I really dislike the whole bunch. Walton's a nice kid.
Sasha Vagisil really irks me.

I'd rather see SA win it all than the Lakers
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#452 » by JohnVancouver » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:41 pm

The hell with it - on to Toronto.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#453 » by tsherkin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:02 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:The Wilt/West (sans Baylor ) teams would be a very good against them.


Yup, I was just curious. Hairston and Goodrich and whatever, the 72 team was nasty. Even the 73 team, really.

I still think Detroit would just manhandle the current Lakers.


I maintain that the current Lakers would rip them a new one. They feasted on a Lakers squad with an aged Kareem and the second-last year of Michael Cooper's career. If they'd faced the '85 Lakers, they'd have crumbled to pieces. The '09 Lakers would rip them apart, IMO.

The Showtime Lakers of '85, say, would be a 6-7 game winner and the Celtics with the Chief, mchale, Johnson etc - Cornbread! - would crush them. Those Boston teams were so tough


Yep. 85 Lakers would tear them apart because Kareem and Cooper were younger and more effective. 86 Celtics, too, probably even worse.

I hate most of the current Lakers too, but I still respect their ability as a team. I do like Gasol and I am a huge Phil Jackson fan. I don't mind Artest, either, as crazy as he is. He reminds me of a shorter, stronger Rodman. Like the SF version of Rodman. Crazy, but undeniably effective.

I like the Spurs, always have. Big Duncan and Pop fan. Like the way they play the game. HATE Manu, of course. Not a huge Parker fan. But Duncan and Pop are enough (and D-Rob, back in the day).

I'm totally rooting for Cleveland this year, though. I want Shaq to title AGAINST the Lakers. :D
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#454 » by Mr. Sun » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:36 pm

Cash wrote:Violet Palmer is crazy incompetent, etc. No big deal.


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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#455 » by suns12345 » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:20 pm

Im ok with this loss as long as we continue our winning ways after this
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#456 » by Mr. Sun » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:31 pm

JohnVancouver wrote:I saw those teams play, also the West/Wilt Lakers and Detroit with Laimbeer, Isiah etc. All of them would take this squad and the Bird Celtics and Showtime lakers would embarass them.

Did you see them play at the Forum in '72? Wilt was soooooooo impressive with blocking anything within 10 feet.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#457 » by hitachi7 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:04 am

I'll need more than this 4th game in 5 nights as proof that the Lakers can "shut us down." With the spacing, no one to stay in front of Nash, and the millions of pnrs we should have all kinds of success against the Lakers offensively. FWIW also our worst defensive games have been by far the 3 b2b ones (Orlando, Philly, LA.) We will have a lot of trouble with their size, but you guys are really giving too much weight to this game.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#458 » by BurningHeart » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:39 am

Game plan for next meeting? GET BYNUM IN FOUL TROUBLE.

He was the only one who did anything against us. Go at him with a guard, sit his ass on the bench, and we have a game.
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#459 » by tsherkin » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:43 am

I'd argue Kobe's uber-efficient 29 points was a lot more than Bynum being the "only one who did anything against us."
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Re: Game 10 Lakers(6-1) Suns(8-1) 

Post#460 » by hitachi7 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:48 am

The Amare-Bynum match-up is something to worry about in that Amare obviously can't keep getting killed.

Nash said after the game that the 7 games in 7 cities in 10 nights caught up to them, and I've never heard him make an excuse in my life. Like I said before, I really wish the next one wasn't also on a b2b, at least we wouldn't get all the overreacting in this thread. Clearly the Lakers are a lot more talented than the Suns, but that doesn't mean they have the team to adequately defend them.

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