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Dupp wrote:Man Bones is more sensitive than MJ and Shaq. Dudes tweeting up a storm on why he’s the goat and p4p.

people need to start showing them some respect

Dupp wrote:Apparently two judges have Justin the first round. That’s crazy to me

that's what I'm wondering about. Gaethje was clearly exhausted and kind of freaked out after the first round while Khabib literally looked like the fight hadn't started yet. how is that possible if Gaethje won the round?

https://youtu.be/57I_YCJM8Fc

Here’s the fight with the dead parts taken out.

If you listened to the announcers you’d think JG never hit him. Then you watch it and realize he was tagging Khabib A lot and it was Khabib that was barely Connecting.

DC was just ludicrously bias in his announcing, and it rubbed off on the other guy. JG did very well, it was just super ugly and frantic. He won the round until the takedown, that’s the part that surprises me though.

Khabib was exhausted as well, the pace was frantic and sloppy. He was tagged up hard on that leg too. He went full beast mode after that though and did patented Khabib, just being willing to take a shot to get his mits on you. When he did, he just mauled him and muscles a submission. 2nd round was crazy impressive for Khabib he looked great.

Tibau was the only man who ever really challenged Khabib. He got better with every fight and it was only Tony who we can really say "what if?"

Legend of the sport. Hes an all time great.

Also good to see Bobby Knuckles have another good win. Hope he gets a rematch against Adesanya eventually

Headliner wrote:Jones’ list is incredible
It’s a slap in the face to say he’s not the pound for pound best fighter until he actually loses

Just depends how the PEDs factor in for you.

REDDzone wrote:

Headliner wrote:Jones’ list is incredible
It’s a slap in the face to say he’s not the pound for pound best fighter until he actually loses

Just depends how the PEDs factor in for you.

Can we factor that in for Khabib too lol
No proof of course, but he’s got some serious connections (Zubaira Tukhugov, Islam Makhachev, Ruslan Magomedov, Mairbek Taisumov all caught and his manger Ali ran a damn PED ring years ago), curious pull outs of fights, long time lines between fights to pattern PEDS ups and downs, Mid career body transformations, possible EPO injuries of blood in the liver, Head like a watermelon Lol, etc etc

Im leaning heavily into eliminating the PEDS negativity from my consideration with Jones because I’m starting to think 90% of the fighters juice so what’s the point.

clyde21 wrote:

gigantes wrote:

Dupp wrote:Khabib is a star. He’s insanely popular. His popularity is only rivalled and beaten by Connor.

I don't see him being anywhere close to Conor in that way, which is why I mentioned metrics earlier.

If someone wants to bring metrics in terms of PPV buys, total MMA analyst mentions of him being a "star," and some kind of fan component (maybe total followers?), that could certainly help.

EDIT: Personally I'd say Khabib's a star, and personally I'd consider him an MMA great. I just don't see that from the body of analysts and fans. I should have been clearer with which POV I was speaking from.

Khabib has 22 million followers on IG, compare that to 2.8m for GSP and 5.4m for Jones, it's not even close...only one that tops Khabib in fandom right now is Conor.

even Stylebender who's hella popular right now only has 3.8.

Khabib and Conor are the two biggest superstars the UFC has ever produced and it's not even close imo

Upvoted for bringing some facts, although it's really hard for me to see both on a personal level and by observing the scene that Khabib is a bigger star than Brock, Ronda, Bones were, plus various other legends of the sport.

Yeah, I'm sure having a tonne of IG followers is nice, but there was a buzz about those other fighters that transcended the sport. Their names kept popping up all over the place and they tended to be far more visible than Khabib in terms of media appearances, for example. But outside of the occasional sports front page, I'm not sure I've ever seen Khabib's name pop up in different context. As a big Reddit-head, that kinda surprises me, since Reddit tends to do a good job pulling media and articles from a huge range of sources.

Still, that stuff is obviously nebulous and hard to measure. If someone could break down the average PPV buy of a Khabib fight vs. the sport's historically biggest stars, I would tend to think that a more accurate measure of stardom.

High 5 wrote:

Dupp wrote:So what happened to Justin’s great take down defense? A lot of talk about his wrestling background but it’s a bit different wrestling kids compared to wrestling Khabib. That transition into submission was far too easy. He almost got something going at the end of the first too.

Khabib is just a different animal + I don’t think Justin’s wrestling has ever really been tested in the UFC. That was the easiest mount I have ever seen. Especially that early in a fight.

Justin’s takedown defense was basically hearsay at this point, he has like 0 wrestling exchanges in the UFC, offensive or defensive, and even with great wrestling does anyone really think Justin has been training BJJ or off his back?

REDDzone wrote:Let's disregard PEDs for a minute. Here is the conclusion that has taken me all day to come to ...

GSP is the most accomplished fighter of all time (and earns him GOAT status).
Khabib is the most dominant fighter of all time.
Jon Jones is the most talented fighter of all time (and is super underrated in the toughness/gritty department).
Silva is a great mix of accomplished, dominant and talented. He's not THE most at any of these though.

No Mighty Mouse?

Headliner wrote:

REDDzone wrote:

Headliner wrote:Jones’ list is incredible
It’s a slap in the face to say he’s not the pound for pound best fighter until he actually loses

Just depends how the PEDs factor in for you.

Can we factor that in for Khabib too lol
No proof of course, but he’s got some serious connections (Zubaira Tukhugov, Islam Makhachev, Ruslan Magomedov, Mairbek Taisumov all caught and his manger Ali ran a damn PED ring years ago), curious pull outs of fights, long time lines between fights to pattern PEDS ups and downs, Mid career body transformations, possible EPO injuries of blood in the liver, Head like a watermelon Lol, etc etc

Im leaning heavily into eliminating the PEDS negativity from my consideration with Jones because I’m starting to think 90% of the fighters juice so what’s the point.

Sure, do what you want lol. I think my personal stance on this has been pretty consistent. I factor in positive tests. I think we can pointlessly speculate all day otherwise.

I also personally don't hold PEDs against guys who used them in organizations that allowed PEDs. Like Fedor probably used PEDs but also probably never cheated. They were allowed in Pride when he was jacked, then he lost musculature when he came to fight in the US, probably because he stopped roiding.

Prez wrote:

clyde21 wrote:i wish he got to fight Tony as #1 and #2 but it just didn't happen, it's whatever, rolling thru McGregor, Poirier and Gaethje is no joke, and he rolled thru all of them will little doubt...Tony probably gives him the most fits, but even then, he probably rolls Tony too.

would've loved to see Khabib stay for 1 more fight, take the winner of Tony vs. Conor if it happens and then sail into the sun set, but it's all good...still Mt Rushmore for me.

What sucks is even if we did get the Tony fight it would've been well past Tony's best, he hasn't looked like the real El Cucuy in years. I feel like a 30-31 year old Tony about 5-6 years ago would be the only guy that could've put Khabib in some questionable/dangerous situations, not that he would've won but Khabib probably at least bleeds in that fight lol. Current Tony is just way past it and would've gotten ran over.

Good points and I tend to agree. It sucks that we lost Khabib this soon, it sucks (for me) that I never got to see someone really test the dude, and it sucks that the Ferguson matchup didn't happen the first or 2nd time it was scheduled. IMO it would have been our best chance to see Khabib truly challenged.

For example, yesterday I was amazed that when Gaethje got taken down, he just immediately wilted. No scrambling, no attempting to spin & pop back up. Just nothing. I'm sure a big part of that was due to him being somewhat gassed, plus Khabib's natural speed, but I would have loved to see how the old Cucuy would have handled that given all his crazy, genius rolling in earlier fights.

What was GSPs record for consecutive rounds won?

Headliner wrote:https://youtu.be/57I_YCJM8Fc

Here’s the fight with the dead parts taken out.

If you listened to the announcers you’d think JG never hit him. Then you watch it and realize he was tagging Khabib A lot and it was Khabib that was barely Connecting.

DC was just ludicrously bias in his announcing, and it rubbed off on the other guy. JG did very well, it was just super ugly and frantic. He won the round until the takedown, that’s the part that surprises me though.

Khabib was exhausted as well, the pace was frantic and sloppy. He was tagged up hard on that leg too. He went full beast mode after that though and did patented Khabib, just being willing to take a shot to get his mits on you. When he did, he just mauled him and muscles a submission. 2nd round was crazy impressive for Khabib he looked great.

Come on, dude. Stop attributing the franticness to the "the pace". Khabib was calm as a cucumber. I watched this with the sound off and with my wife. She noted the change in emotions that happened the moment that Khabib started to engage. Justin was head down flinging and fleeting. Khabib was loose in the shoulders, moving forward methodically.

"it was super ugly and frantic"...."it"? The only thing frantic was Justin. This is a fact. You're deliberately and deceptively trying to avoid acknowledging this by talking about "pace" and "its". JG was HEAVING after the round. Nothing Khabib was doing was ugly or frantic.

JG def clipped Khabib hard in that round. Cannot deny that. There was a 1-2 that was solid and a couple of flung hooks. But Khabib walked right through it. He was a machine.

gigantes wrote:Upvoted for bringing some facts, although it's really hard for me to see both on a personal level and by observing the scene that Khabib is a bigger star than Brock, Ronda, Bones were, plus various other legends of the sport.

Yeah, I'm sure having a tonne of IG followers is nice, but there was a buzz about those other fighters that transcended the sport. Their names kept popping up all over the place and they tended to be far more visible than Khabib in terms of media appearances, for example. But outside of the occasional sports front page, I'm not sure I've ever seen Khabib's name pop up in different context. As a big Reddit-head, that kinda surprises me, since Reddit tends to do a good job pulling media and articles from a huge range of sources.

Still, that stuff is obviously nebulous and hard to measure. If someone could break down the average PPV buy of a Khabib fight vs. the sport's historically biggest stars, I would tend to think that a more accurate measure of stardom.

Bro, just admit you were wrong and move on.

High 5 wrote:

gigantes wrote:Upvoted for bringing some facts, although it's really hard for me to see both on a personal level and by observing the scene that Khabib is a bigger star than Brock, Ronda, Bones were, plus various other legends of the sport.

Yeah, I'm sure having a tonne of IG followers is nice, but there was a buzz about those other fighters that transcended the sport. Their names kept popping up all over the place and they tended to be far more visible than Khabib in terms of media appearances, for example. But outside of the occasional sports front page, I'm not sure I've ever seen Khabib's name pop up in different context. As a big Reddit-head, that kinda surprises me, since Reddit tends to do a good job pulling media and articles from a huge range of sources.

Still, that stuff is obviously nebulous and hard to measure. If someone could break down the average PPV buy of a Khabib fight vs. the sport's historically biggest stars, I would tend to think that a more accurate measure of stardom.

Bro, just admit you were wrong and move on.

Wrong about what, exactly...?

Like, if I don't automatically agree with your POV, am I "wrong" for not jumping on your bandwagon? Given very little facts to make the case?

Suggestion to get over yourself, lil bro. Keep it with facts & reality, and we'll be fine here.

NO-KG-AI wrote:

REDDzone wrote:Let's disregard PEDs for a minute. Here is the conclusion that has taken me all day to come to ...

GSP is the most accomplished fighter of all time (and earns him GOAT status).
Khabib is the most dominant fighter of all time.
Jon Jones is the most talented fighter of all time (and is super underrated in the toughness/gritty department).
Silva is a great mix of accomplished, dominant and talented. He's not THE most at any of these though.

No Mighty Mouse?

Yea, good call, he belongs. But I do think it's telling that I forgot about him though. I wonder how history will look back on him (even though he's not done). He beat pretty much everyone put in front of him, but unfortunately for him the guys put in front of him were more Ray Borgs and Chris Cariosos as opposed to the scalps on the resumes of the other guys on this list.

High 5 wrote:

REDDzone wrote:Let's disregard PEDs for a minute. Here is the conclusion that has taken me all day to come to ...

GSP is the most accomplished fighter of all time (and earns him GOAT status).
Khabib is the most dominant fighter of all time.
Jon Jones is the most talented fighter of all time (and is super underrated in the toughness/gritty department).
Silva is a great mix of accomplished, dominant and talented. He's not THE most at any of these though.

Not bad, but if we disregard PEDs then I think Jones has to still be considered the most dominant. Especially looking at his first 13 fights in the UFC (which is how many Khabib has). Interestingly it was his 14th fight (Gus) when he finally faced some adversity.

disgagree, gus/smith (kinda)/reyes fight were very close. many had reyes winning iirc. he has not looked good for a while.

khabib in 13 fights lost 1 (well 2 now) and the first was mcgregor is debatable consdierng how much he cheated. Khabib never looked in trouble, any fight.

guys like jones/silva will take hits for getting popped, to say otherwise is dumb. if lebron got hit with a ped suspension, do ppl think his goat convo would still be there lol. Jones needs to dominate heavyweight to help his rep back up. Provided he stops getting caught lol

Too bad Khabib is retiring. That dude has dominating graping and take down skills. There is few fighters if any that can match his wrestling abilities

omar36 wrote:

High 5 wrote:

REDDzone wrote:Let's disregard PEDs for a minute. Here is the conclusion that has taken me all day to come to ...

GSP is the most accomplished fighter of all time (and earns him GOAT status).
Khabib is the most dominant fighter of all time.
Jon Jones is the most talented fighter of all time (and is super underrated in the toughness/gritty department).
Silva is a great mix of accomplished, dominant and talented. He's not THE most at any of these though.

Not bad, but if we disregard PEDs then I think Jones has to still be considered the most dominant. Especially looking at his first 13 fights in the UFC (which is how many Khabib has). Interestingly it was his 14th fight (Gus) when he finally faced some adversity.

disgagree, gus/smith (kinda)/reyes fight were very close. many had reyes winning iirc. he has not looked good for a while.

khabib in 13 fights lost 1 (well 2 now) and the first was mcgregor is debatable consdierng how much he cheated. Khabib never looked in trouble, any fight.

guys like jones/silva will take hits for getting popped, to say otherwise is dumb. if lebron got hit with a ped suspension, do ppl think his goat convo would still be there lol. Jones needs to dominate heavyweight to help his rep back up. Provided he stops getting caught lol

very close...kinda? it was one of the worst blowouts of all time. JJ rolled him around like a toddler with playdough. zero challenge, zero competition.