What are we going to do with all these players?

[Jsun947]

I think Travis and Jack are the odd men out.

Right now we have a 10 player rotation including Sergio. Anymore then that is too much.

You figure we'll have..

Blake/Sergio
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Jones
Aldridge/Frye
Oden/Przybilla

I think Webster/Jones are more important then Outlaw because they space the floor so much better. I sure the hell hope Rudy outplays Jarret but I think he will fit our system better anyway.

[Fitz303]

I dont think theres any chance that Travis is moved anymore.. I dont think Frye gets moved either, but if it were down to those 2, I think Frye would go first

[Mr Odd]

So our 2nd best clutch player is the odd man out??
The same guy who has been making crazy pull up
jumpers to save the Blazers, not to mention the
same guy who helped kick off the big win streak
after nailing the running, leaning jump bank shot?
Hes the odd man out?? Man, thats harsh.. .lol

[DaVoiceMaster]

Mr 4th Quarter is going nowhere! Frye goes before Outlaw goes.

[Butter]

So our 2nd best clutch player is the odd man out??
The same guy who has been making crazy pull up
jumpers to save the Blazers, not to mention the
same guy who helped kick off the big win streak
after nailing the running, leaning jump bank shot?
Hes the odd man out?? Man, thats harsh.. .lol

Man, this is a freakin' tough situation. Here's my question though.

IF-
Oulaw/Jacks minutes were taken by
James/Rudy

is that a major drop-off in 4th quarter production?

[DeezXXnutZ]

I think Travis and Jack are the odd men out.

They're the odd men out..Get real they both play night in and night out in the fourth and without either of them we would be 10 games under .500....

Don't just talk to hear yourself talk...Make some sense next time.....

[Jsun947]

I think with Oden/Aldridge in the paint we are going to be doing a lot more inside out. You need shooters to stretch the defense. Thats why I think you HAVE to keep Jones/Webster. That takes away all the minutes Outlaw would get at SF.

You look at PF and I think Frye gives us more size and the same range. You can switch him out at center if needed just like hes been doing this season. Probably a good thing considering Oden/Przybilla may both be injury prone.

To me Outlaw means less to this team next year then Frye. That and if Outlaw doesn't get minutes his value will drop significantly.

[Jsun947]

Trade out Jack and Outlaw for Rudy and Oden and maybe we would have the same result...

[SinceClyde]

I can't believe people are saying Travis is an odd man out. Have I been the only one watching these games?

When watching Travis, I am reminded of why we picked Oden over Durant on a daily basis.

[Butter]

I can't believe people are saying Travis is an odd man out. Have I been the only one watching these games?

When watching Travis, I am reminded of why we picked Oden over Durant on a daily basis.

As Shaq would say, "its the Big Conundrum".

We've talked around it for awhile, but I think the issue is Outlaw versus Webster versus Frye. A lot of Outlaw's minutes will likely need to come at the PF, but LMA is going the play the bulk of those minutes either way.

Agrhh, I have no idea. I'm glad KP is making those decisions.

[Jsun947]

Approx our rotation minutes as of now

C - Joel 21, Frye 18, Outlaw 9
PF - Aldridge 34, Outlaw 14
SF - Webster 24, Jones 23, Outlaw 1
SG - Roy 37, Jack 11
PG - Blake 28, Jack 10, Sergio 10

Our new rotation minutes? Approx...

C - Oden 32, Przybilla 16
PF - Aldridge 34, ??? 14
SF - Webster 24, Jones 24
SG - Roy 37, ??? 11
PG - Blake 28, ???? 10, Sergio 10

I'm going to go ahead and assume that Rudy will basically replace Jack in our line-up. Either Frye or Outlaw will be the back-up PF. I know we can always keep both but one will end up riding the bench... Players dont perform well playing sparatic playing time.

[mojomarc]

Approx our rotation minutes as of now

C - Joel 21, Frye 18, Outlaw 9
PF - Aldridge 34, Outlaw 14
SF - Webster 24, Jones 23, Outlaw 1
SG - Roy 37, Jack 11
PG - Blake 28, Jack 10, Sergio 10

You're way off on parts of this rotation, and maybe that's affecting your final distribution. Outlaw, for example, doesn't play 15 minutes, but 26. Martell plays 29 minutes per game, not 24. Jack plays 27, not 21 minutes per game. You also forgot Raef completely, but I suppose that's easy to do so we can forgive you for that one .

What makes it hard to map stuff out like this on our team is that Nate shuffles he lineup almost nightly. You have Jack, for example, playing two positions, but not Aldridge, who clearly does. Even though you have them playing the same position, Frye and Przybilla often get minutes together at the same time. We've even seen lineups with Blake, Jack and Roy all in the game at the same time. So while it's easy to conclude that there aren't enough minutes for both Outlaw and Frye to play backup PF, the fact is that Nate has played both of them on the court at the same time in probably every game where one of them wasn't being significantly benched.

And while I agree that players need to play, I also think this team, to get to the championship level, will need more than just Rudy and Oden putting on a uniform. We're going to need to trade a lot of our players to upgrade talent before we will have a Bulls-like Dynasty on our hands. I fully anticipate that out of our current PGs it is quite likely that only Sergio is on the team for the 2010 season, and even he might be gone by then. For SF, as much as I'm a huge fan of Webster's potential to be James Jones with a lot more rebounding and slashing capability, he may not last that long, either. Heck, I'm not even 100% sold on the idea that Lamarcus is our championship run PF yet. So at this point, I'm not worried about too few minutes because I fully believe that there are a lot of two-for-one trades in our future to get significant upgrades at just about every position other than SG and C.

[RayBourque]

None of our current PGs are keepers for the future IMO, unless we are talking as backups. It's been mentioned elsewhere but not in this thread, that CP3 could be the 2009 FA target. Prichard would have liked to draft him instead of Martell and if I were CP3 it would be very enticing to join a core with Oden, Roy and LMA.

Or, there could be another PG plan, but that doesn't seem at all resolved now and, with respect to too many players, we could could certainly lose one or even two now and be fine (given Roy's play at PG sometimes).

I don't think we need another backup C if we have Joel, Aldridge and Frye/____ (backup PF) to spell Oden. However, using the 13th, 14th or 15th spot on a younger C backup wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'm conflicted about the Jones, Martell, TO issue at SF (or some PF given TO). I like them all. However, if I had to trade one it may be Martell only for this reason: I don't know if he can keep his head from getting too big if he continues to have success, and I wonder if that would affect the team. It just reading between the lines on my part about how he carries himself.

Although I agree with most of Mojo above, if we get too much of a super-talent core via 1-for-2or3s we will have a hard time retaining it. I think the three-superstars plus solid roles players is what can be managed within the cap, and even my Oden, Roy, Aldridge, CP3 scenario probably wouln't work unless everyone was willing to take less to be on that team.

[Dakotah612]

Has anyone looked at Rudy's stats lately? He's averaging 5 apg in only 28 min. And for those who know a little about International basketball, getting an assists over there is a lot different from the NBA. If they used NBA rules, Rudy is averaging 7-8 assists in 28 min. Rudy has a very high basketball IQ and runs the pick and roll with ease. But does he have the ball handling to play the PG spot in the NBA?

PG: Rudy Fernandez
SG: Brandon Roy

[mojomarc]

Has anyone looked at Rudy's stats lately? He's averaging 5 apg in only 28 min. And for those who know a little about International basketball, getting an assists over there is a lot different from the NBA. If they used NBA rules, Rudy is averaging 7-8 assists in 28 min. Rudy has a very high basketball IQ and runs the pick and roll with ease. But does he have the ball handling to play the PG spot in the NBA?

PG: Rudy Fernandez
SG: Brandon Roy

I don't think he's he type of player that would be a good PG since his major strength is off the ball. He has a big motor, cuts aggressively off screens, and has a great fist step off the wing. But he also needs someone to get him the ball. In Spain, that someone is Ricky Rubio, but here it would likely be Brandon, whom we mostly agree needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

[TangO]

For me.. Until Rudy actually plays a game in the NBA, he doesn't figure into the rotation. And I can't imagine Portland giving up Travis or Martell. Unless it's a really good trade. Especially with all the time they've invested in them. To me, I see James Jones and Jarret Jack as the most likely to go. And personally I'd like to keep to James Jones more than Jack.

[SinceClyde]

I understand you guys are number crunchers, but it's obvious with injuries and poor play that anyone can move up or down in the rotation and as fans, distributing minutes isn't completely realistic. Even if Travis is only used in the 4th, then I think he's worth keeping around. I think you have to get rid of Green and McRoberts, even though I want to see McRoberts play more each game I go to.

I think you have to keep Joel or get something good in a trade; he is a serviceable center in a league of teams that would love him. Webster you keep for his shooting. LaFrentz could be waived easily if a spot was needed. I'm lost on Frye, but surely will find my way with him when I see another month of consistency.

[ph1sh55]

I really don't think Rudy is taking anyone's minutes next year.
look at marco bellineli who has had similar hype as Rudy, he is turnover prone in the nba and questionable on D. There is still a big transition to the nba game for Rudy to make and to be pencilling him in for anything over proven nba talent is wayyyy premature. I don't think people realize right now just how good our team and players complement eachother across the board.
i.e. Our white unit: we NEED J. Jack on it because he is the only one in the unit who can slash to the basket. If you're thinking of replacing him it can't be with Rudy. Frye, Outlaw, J. Jones are jump shooters, some of the best shooters at their respective positions, and, sergio is the ball handler/distributor with above average court vision. If you try to plug Rudy in for Jack our second unit becomes much more one dimensional..and defensively I would be concerned about that backcourt.

The white unit has been dominating other teams bench because it has such great balance they can't hone in on any one type of style to defend.

There's a reason why it seems like someone different steps up everynight and it's not due to something miraculous: when the opposing team is trying to key in on one or a few of the players styles the other player gets opened up for what they specialize in. If you take an aggressive slasher like Jack out of that lineup and replace him with a shooter it becomes significantly less effective: they can focus on our shooters and not worry about penetration. Suddenly we don't have someone different stepping up every night; if that happens it won't have so much to do with the quality of players as the defense is able to key in on their common strengths. That's why you can't just throw talent at a team. Often times we are making runs in the 3rd to 4th quarters because it takes a bit of time to find the vulnerabilities in their Defensive sets. We are consistently pulling away at the end of games though because that balance creates opportunities.

I'm convinced we have a championship caliber lineup simply adding Oden. Our weakness is inside scoring..Oden will get his points in the paint. He is going to make our starting lineup extremely good. Our second unit is already arguably one of the top 3 in the league.

The only possible upgrades is a guard who shoots the 3 ball very well and can D up opposing PG's to tandem with Roy. Tell me a player out there who even has that skillset better than Blake right now? Blake is shooting very high 3pt % since he moved into the "sg" role with roy. He doesn't commit turnovers. You aren't going to find an upgrade over what he brings on the market...

Even arguing for a top flight PG I think is missing what we have going for us. Chris Paul and Deron Williams are not out there. And imo Roy is quite possibly the best in the NBA at controlling the game down the stretch due to his well rounded skillset. He doesn't quite takeover a game like lebron james but he has outplayed both Chris Paul and Deron when head to head when he's been in that role.

[Telfaire]

i.e. Our white unit: we NEED J. Jack on it because he is the only one in the unit who can slash to the basket. If you're thinking of replacing him it can't be with Rudy. Frye, Outlaw, J. Jones are jump shooters, some of the best shooters at their respective positions, and, sergio is the ball handler/distributor with above average court vision. If you try to plug Rudy in for Jack our second unit becomes much more one dimensional..and defensively I would be concerned about that backcourt.

Well, Bayless could take Jack's role off the bench, and start alongside Roy in the future. If we could trade up for him using Jack and maybe Frye, it would solve some roster problems.

[Jsun947]

-= original quote snipped =-



You're way off on parts of this rotation, and maybe that's affecting your final distribution. Outlaw, for example, doesn't play 15 minutes, but 26. Martell plays 29 minutes per game, not 24. Jack plays 27, not 21 minutes per game. You also forgot Raef completely, but I suppose that's easy to do so we can forgive you for that one .

What makes it hard to map stuff out like this on our team is that Nate shuffles he lineup almost nightly. You have Jack, for example, playing two positions, but not Aldridge, who clearly does. Even though you have them playing the same position, Frye and Przybilla often get minutes together at the same time. We've even seen lineups with Blake, Jack and Roy all in the game at the same time. So while it's easy to conclude that there aren't enough minutes for both Outlaw and Frye to play backup PF, the fact is that Nate has played both of them on the court at the same time in probably every game where one of them wasn't being significantly benched.

And while I agree that players need to play, I also think this team, to get to the championship level, will need more than just Rudy and Oden putting on a uniform. We're going to need to trade a lot of our players to upgrade talent before we will have a Bulls-like Dynasty on our hands. I fully anticipate that out of our current PGs it is quite likely that only Sergio is on the team for the 2010 season, and even he might be gone by then. For SF, as much as I'm a huge fan of Webster's potential to be James Jones with a lot more rebounding and slashing capability, he may not last that long, either. Heck, I'm not even 100% sold on the idea that Lamarcus is our championship run PF yet. So at this point, I'm not worried about too few minutes because I fully believe that there are a lot of two-for-one trades in our future to get significant upgrades at just about every position other than SG and C.

The minutes do change a lot durring the game. And you didn't read it right anyway. There are a few players I tried to put minutes in at other positions. Webster and Outlaw's season average minutes are slightly inflated because Jones wasn't in the line-up forso long. I still don't see how that changes the fact that there isn't enough minutes for 12 YOUNG players to get enough playing time to be consistant role players....